Mercedes to debut new MCT transmission (similar to M-DCT)

[ybbiz34]

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/02/08/o...3-and-sl65-am/

MCT Transmission – The Best of Both Worlds

Providing the direct feedback of a manual transmission with the total convenience of an automatic, the new seven-speed MCT with AMG Speedshift is an all-new design available only in the new SL63 AMG. Featuring seven speeds, four shift modes and a double-clutching function, the MCT transmission offers impressive versatility and even faster shift times.

At the heart of the new AMG Speedshift MCT seven-speed sports transmission is a new start-up clutch, which runs in an oil bath and replaces a conventional torque converter. Thanks to its low rotational mass, the start-up clutch helps the transmission respond instantaneously and dynamically with no slip.

Fitted with four drive modes: "C" (Comfort), "S" (Sport), "S+" (Sport plus) and "M" (Manual), the transmission provides customized shift control for maximum driving pleasure, and does so with no interruption of power. In Comfort mode, smooth shifts coupled with a "soft" accelerator response are set up for silky smooth power transfer. In Sport mode, the engine and transmission interact quicker – upshifts and downshifts take place at higher engine speed. Gearshifts are around 20 percent faster than in Comfort mode. Switching to the Sport Plus mode cuts another 20 percent off shift times, while the sportiest mode, Manual, reduces shifting times by another 10 percent – a total reduction of 50 percent compared with Comfort mode. In Manual mode, the gearshifts take just 100 milliseconds.

Ultra-fast, spontaneous multiple downshifts are another forte of the new MCT sports transmission. For instance, kickdown will shift directly from seventh down to fourth gear or from fifth to second. In the "S" (Sport), "S+" (Sport plus) and "M" (Manual) modes, an automatic double-clutching function is active. Every manual or automatic downshift is accompanied by precisely metered double-clutching – from "S" through "S+" to "M" incrementally. Not only does double-clutching make driving more fun, but virtually load-free downshifting minimizes any jerking, a special benefit when braking into a curve.

[ybbiz34]

Another link, not sure if the first one is working correctly.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/02/08/o...3-and-sl65-am/

[V8convert]

BMW, Mercedes and Audi (and Porsche soon with PDK) are all offering dual clutch transmissions.

Debueing with the M3, SL AMG, and RS5 next year, im sure the days of Manual transmisson are numbered once this transmission filters down to lesser models over the next few years.

[CivicCoupe06]

like Clarkson said. Merc and Audi are copies of the M3. Good Copies, but still Copies. the M3 is superior.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by V8convert

BMW, Mercedes and Audi (and Porsche soon with PDK) are all offering dual clutch transmissions.

Debueing with the M3, SL AMG, and RS5 next year, im sure the days of Manual transmisson are numbered once this transmission filters down to lesser models over the next few years.

My understanding is that MCT is a single clutch system?

[V8convert]

Originally Posted by lucid

My understanding is that MCT is a single clutch system?

From the link:

The big news with the new SL63 is the addition of Mercedes' seven-speed twin-clutch SpeedShift MCT (Multi-Clutch Transmission) with four drive modes. Shifts with the MCT are promised to be smoother, faster and more fun overall than before.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by V8convert

From the link:

The big news with the new SL63 is the addition of Mercedes' seven-speed twin-clutch SpeedShift MCT (Multi-Clutch Transmission) with four drive modes. Shifts with the MCT are promised to be smoother, faster and more fun overall than before.

Ah, interesting. So they went for a dual-clutch design as well. The link does not bring up a narrative for me, but this does:

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/02/08/o...3-and-sl65-am/

MCT stands for Multi Clutch Transmission apparently...

I am surprised by the quoted 100ms time.

[ybbiz34]

I imagine this transmission will find its way into the C63 AMG rather soon. Not at launch, but perhaps by mid-year.

[V8convert]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

I imagine this transmission will find its way into the C63 AMG rather soon. Not at launch, but perhaps by mid-year.

Cant remember where i read it but there is a quote somewhere from an AMG engineer in one of the carmag reviews saying that the C63 would likely be getting a 'new' transmission sometime soon.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by V8convert

Cant remember where i read it but there is a quote somewhere from an AMG engineer in one of the carmag reviews saying that the C63 would likely be getting a 'new' transmission sometime soon.

It would be exciting to see the C63 receive the MCT, especially with the gobs of power that engine offers. Of course, it still would not be on par with the M3 in the twisties, but the C63, for the price, would be one HELL of a street thug.

[southlight]

Originally Posted by lucid

My understanding is that MCT is a single clutch system?

Yep, that's right.
It uses a single wet clutch instead of a torque converter, thus it's kinda enhancements of the old Speedshift tranmission.
My understanding is that this transmission is SMG-like. Confusing is that Merc chose the description "doubleclutching" of a single clutch. So the mistake for a real double clutch transmission seems to be intentional...

Besides that:


Best regards, south

[lucid]

Originally Posted by southlight

Yep, that's right.
It uses a single wet clutch instead of a torque converter, thus it's kinda enhancements of the old Speedshift tranmission.
My understanding is that this transmission is SMG-like. Confusing is that Merc chose the description "doubleclutching" of a single clutch. So the mistake for a real double clutch transmission seems to be intentional...

Besides that


Best regards, south

Indeed in the wrong section. Should be moved to the M3 vs ... section. There is a similar discussion on:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112583

Yeah, I figured the "doubleclutching" stuff was put out there just to confuse people, so that's not what threw me off. That made me laugh actually.

What's throwing me off is the actual name of the system: MCT. Where is the "multi-clutch" in this system exactly? What's meant by that?

[devo]

Originally Posted by V8convert

BMW, Mercedes and Audi (and Porsche soon with PDK) are all offering dual clutch transmissions.

Debueing with the M3, SL AMG, and RS5 next year, im sure the days of Manual transmisson are numbered once this transmission filters down to lesser models over the next few years.

I think that there will always be a purist market for a true manual transmission. Consider this, used 430 Ferrari 6 speeds command a much higher resale than their dual clutch counterparts.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by devo

Consider this, used 430 Ferrari 6 speeds command a much higher resale than their dual clutch counterparts.

Interesting. Do you know if that's the case in Europe as well? I wonder if people are also concerned about reliability issues in the long-run.

[devo]

Originally Posted by lucid

Interesting. Do you know if that's the case in Europe as well? I wonder if people are also concerned about reliability issues in the long-run.

I don't know if that is the case in Europe. I don't think that it has to do with reliabiltiy issues, just rarity. I think as many as 95% of 430 buyers order the F1 transmission, thereby making the six speed that much less attainable.

A friend of mine has a F1 430. He swears by it. He said that it is leaps and bounds better than the tranny in his 360. He can't really attest to it's reliability since almost all F car owners keep their annual mileage under 1500.

That is truely a rich mans car. Even if you could afford one you can't drive it so you still end up buying another hot car that you can drive and a daily driver to boot. So, Ferrari's are usually at least three deep.

[southlight]

Originally Posted by lucid

Indeed in the wrong section. Should be moved to the M3 vs ... section. There is a similar discussion on:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112583

Yeah, I figured the "doubleclutching" stuff was put out there just to confuse people, so that's not what threw me off. That made me laugh actually.

What's throwing me off is the actual name of the system: MCT. Where is the "multi-clutch" in this system exactly? What's meant by that?

That says the PR:
MCT stands for Multi-Clutch Technology and only employs clutch elements to perform gearshifts.



Best regards, south

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by lucid

Indeed in the wrong section. Should be moved to the M3 vs ... section. There is a similar discussion on:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112583

Sorry guys. Thought it was relevant enough to post here without throwing off your worlds, and I saw the C63 AMG thread above that hasn't been moved in days.

On another note, sometimes information that initially is posted in a more obscure subforum never gets read, which is why I believe that sometimes borderline, tangential information is posted in the main forum. I realize you guys are trying to keep everything organized, but your whole thing is starting to get a bit annoying. It is that attitude that makes this place less of a community and gives BMW driver's a bad name.

[rvacha]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

Sorry guys. Thought it was relevant enough to post here without throwing off your worlds, and I saw the C63 AMG thread above that hasn't been moved in days.

On another note, sometimes information that initially is posted in a more obscure subforum never gets read, which is why I believe that sometimes borderline, tangential information is posted in the main forum. I realize you guys are trying to keep everything organized, but your whole thing is starting to get a bit annoying. It is that attitude that makes this place less of a community and gives BMW driver's a bad name.

I'm not normally one of those guys but I think you are missing some things here. IMHO one of the things that gives BMW owners a bad name is vanity, and your concern about being seen (or not seen) qualifies in spades. Second, the fact that some obscure forums aren't getting read simply reinforces that the info they contain is not central to the interests of the majority of board members. I agree with your C63 comment however

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by rvacha

I'm not normally one of those guys but I think you are missing some things here. IMHO one of the things that gives BMW owners a bad name is vanity, and your concern about being seen (or not seen) qualifies in spades. Second, the fact that some obscure forums aren't getting read simply reinforces that the info they contain is not central to the interests of the majority of board members. I agree with your C63 comment however

I don't care about being seen (or not seen), but I do care about sifting through other threads that are littered with . Reposts and information posted in the wrong section agitate some people more than others. Personally, I either read it and realize it is a repost, and then leave it alone, or ignore it completely. The REPOST and posts are equally as useless. They are a waste of time, just like the discussion I have just created.

Back on topic.

[footie]

Originally Posted by devo

I think that there will always be a purist market for a true manual transmission. Consider this, used 430 Ferrari 6 speeds command a much higher resale than their dual clutch counterparts.

devo,

Actually the Ferrari F1 gearbox which is used on every production car they built is not a dual clutch gearbox but one which has more in common with BMW's SMG and Lamborghini's E-Gear. Each of this gearboxes are single clutch designs.

[southlight]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

I don't care about being seen (or not seen), but I do care about sifting through other threads that are littered with . Reposts and information posted in the wrong section agitate some people more than others. Personally, I either read it and realize it is a repost, and then leave it alone, or ignore it completely. The REPOST and posts are equally as useless. They are a waste of time, just like the discussion I have just created.

Back on topic.

They're no more useless than redundant posts in the wrong section. If you spent only half the effort (of this discussion) to search before making a repost you wouldn't have to see in your thread.

Besides that these "REPOST and wrong forum posts" somewhat give a learning effect.


Best regards, south

[devo]

Originally Posted by footie

devo,

Actually the Ferrari F1 gearbox which is used on every production car they built is not a dual clutch gearbox but one which has more in common with BMW's SMG and Lamborghini's E-Gear. Each of this gearboxes are single clutch designs.

I am surprised to hear that.