BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > M3 Photos/Video/Media Gallery
 
Racewerkz Engineering
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-21-2008, 01:03 AM   #1
Epacy
Reincarnated
 
Epacy's Avatar
 
Drives: 02 Maxima SE
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: IL

Posts: 4,227
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 M3  [0.00]
Current E92 M3 Owners - Battery Pic Request

Would any current owners be so kind as to snap a couple of pics of their battery?
Checking to see if there is some sort of control module on top of the battery for BER.
This is what the NA one looks like and would like to compare:
Thanks!



__________________
Epacy is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-21-2008, 02:23 AM   #2
GeriFix
Lieutenant
 
GeriFix's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW M3 E92; MG TF 160; C2 VTS
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Sydney

Posts: 531
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 BMW M3 E92  [0.00]
Looks pretty similar to mine.
Attached Images
 
GeriFix is offline   Australia
0
Reply With Quote
      01-21-2008, 11:11 AM   #3
Epacy
Reincarnated
 
Epacy's Avatar
 
Drives: 02 Maxima SE
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: IL

Posts: 4,227
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 M3  [0.00]
Thanks GeriFix!!

They do like identical. This is good news for BER in NA! Looks like it is a definite.
__________________
Epacy is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-21-2008, 01:20 PM   #4
gasman
Member
 
gasman's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 RR Sport SC, 08 AW/FR M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX

Posts: 505
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
Thanks GeriFix!!

They do like identical. This is good news for BER in NA! Looks like it is a definite.

BER? "Bit error ratio, bureau of education & research, basic encoding rules, BER corp"???????
gasman is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-21-2008, 02:35 PM   #5
swamp2
Lieutenant General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 10,200
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
Thanks GeriFix!!

They do like identical. This is good news for BER in NA! Looks like it is a definite.
Are you willing to call it "definite" that the US gets BER based on the appearance of a US vs. EU car battery?
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-21-2008, 02:54 PM   #6
Drew10
Private First Class
 
Drew10's Avatar
 
Drives: 2005 M3
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Tampa

Posts: 127
iTrader: (0)

I thought BMW already announced that BER (Break Energy Regeneration) was not coming to the US.
__________________
Drew10 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-21-2008, 03:00 PM   #7
ruff
Conspicuous consumption
 
ruff's Avatar
 
Drives: 987 S .2, Lemond Zurich
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The mountains of Utah

Posts: 1,184
iTrader: (0)

Sir Epacy,

I am impressed with you inquisitive thinking process. You are definately on the right track to solving this ongoing mystery about U.S. bound cars.
ruff is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-21-2008, 06:56 PM   #8
Epacy
Reincarnated
 
Epacy's Avatar
 
Drives: 02 Maxima SE
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: IL

Posts: 4,227
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Are you willing to call it "definite" that the US gets BER based on the appearance of a US vs. EU car battery?
BER requires a special battery and from the pictures the setup is identical, down to the control module.

Apparently, BMW already put BER in the European E60 a couple of years ago.
They are adding it to the 1-series as well.

Things seem to be lining up. I'll go ahead and call it a definite.

Check Tbone's Detroit Auto Show thread for excruciating detail on BER and where this request came from.
__________________
Epacy is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-21-2008, 06:56 PM   #9
Epacy
Reincarnated
 
Epacy's Avatar
 
Drives: 02 Maxima SE
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: IL

Posts: 4,227
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruff View Post
Sir Epacy,

I am impressed with you inquisitive thinking process. You are definately on the right track to solving this ongoing mystery about U.S. bound cars.
Thanks, I think...
__________________
Epacy is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-21-2008, 09:51 PM   #10
swamp2
Lieutenant General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 10,200
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
Things seem to be lining up. I'll go ahead and call it a definite.
Seems just a tad weak to me unless there is written docs proving that US 135 gets BER. Can you confirm that?
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-21-2008, 10:32 PM   #11
Epacy
Reincarnated
 
Epacy's Avatar
 
Drives: 02 Maxima SE
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: IL

Posts: 4,227
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Seems just a tad weak to me unless there is written docs proving that US 135 gets BER. Can you confirm that?
Yes, the evidence is somewhat sketchy with what I have provided.
I do not have a document confirming NA 1-series BER.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fifth Gear
16/1/07

The BMW 1 Series will get a mid-life facelift and numerous engine enhancements this spring. A sporty new three-door variant will also be introduced.

A series of (relatively small) styling changes seem to tone-down some of designer Chris Bangle's trademark 'flame surfacing', including a new front bumper, a more prominent grille and revised headlights. Elongated doors and a repositioned B-pillar are the main alterations on the three-door variant.

Major changes can be found amongst the oily bits, where new or revised extra-efficient engines have been introduced. Performance and economy has been enhanced across the range; the most improved engine is the 118d which has 21bhp more power and is 19% more fuel efficient. In fact, the 118d will be the most efficient BMW on sale, offering 60mpg.

These economical engines are assisted by new BMW technology like a Brake Energy Regeneration (BER) system, which will also be introduced on the revised 5 Series. This innovative system uses a newly developed alternator that stores energy when the brakes are applied, allowing (says BMW) for a 2-3% improvement in fuel economy.
Greg won't like this description. However, it is to point out that the 1-series is getting BER.


http://fifthgear.five.tv/jsp/5gmain.jsp?lnk=101&id=2064
__________________
Epacy is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-21-2008, 11:14 PM   #12
GregW / Oregon
Commander-In-Chief
 
Drives: 2015 M4 Coupe, 2012 ML350
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Lake Oswego, OR

Posts: 7,537
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
BER

Quote:
Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
Yes, the evidence is somewhat sketchy with what I have provided.
Greg won't like this description. However, it is to point out that the 1-series is getting BER.
__________________

Greg Lake Oswego, Oregon, USA
2015 M4 Coupe - Silverstone/Sakhir/CF
2012 ML350
GregW / Oregon is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-22-2008, 02:13 AM   #13
swamp2
Lieutenant General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 10,200
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
Yes, the evidence is somewhat sketchy with what I have provided.
I do not have a document confirming NA 1-series BER.
I don't really follow the 1er very closely. It is new to the US but has been available abroad for some time, right? So the BER change is a "mid-life" change for the 1er? Will these mid-life changes be present in the 2008 135? If that is the case I would say the deal is pretty sealed on BER for the M3. I'll be glad this feature made it but am also suprised by its lack of mention in US information like the brochures. Perhaps they know most Americans and most that will buy the M3 don't give a squat about mpg. Thanks for the work on this one!
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-22-2008, 03:02 AM   #14
sayemthree
Brigadier General
 
sayemthree's Avatar
 
Drives: bmw
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: usa

Posts: 4,845
iTrader: (0)

pics look very different to me????
sayemthree is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-22-2008, 07:42 AM   #15
rvacha
Captain
 
rvacha's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E92 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Cleveland, OH

Posts: 745
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
My *guess* is that if the euro version has BER, so does the NA version. It's a simple module that probably doesn't cost much - at least compared to the AGM battery. I could be wrong, but I believe the 1er has had BER since day 1, although other things have been tacked on since then. BER is under the generic umbrella of "efficient dynamics". Very few documents outside of the press releases for the S65B40 engine have mentioned BER however. Internally BER appears to actually be called "intelligent generator control", whose German acronym is "IGR". I *believe* that most of the junk seen on the battery is actually associated with the "intelligent battery sensor", IBS. IBS does the actual determination of battery charge state as well as battery health prediction. The IBS function is probably much more expensive than IGR. I don't believe IGR can function without data from IBS since IGR must afterall charge the battery under ALL circumstances if the battery is too low, and IBS would be one one providing the info.

Again if I were to take a *guess* I'd say that corporately BMW wants to appear green, while avoiding giving potential buyers of its highest performing cars (i.e. ///M) an impression that the product is overly green, as it might imply "performance compromise". If so this might explain why there are few and sketchy details.
__________________

'03 X5 4.4i Blue/Tan
'06 E90 330Xi 6MT Sparkling Graphite/Terra
'08 E92 M3 6MT Jerez/Speed Cloth <-- Evil Twin
rvacha is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-22-2008, 08:31 AM   #16
drvai
Major
 
drvai's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3 AW
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: FL

Posts: 1,260
iTrader: (0)

BER in the sense that the alternator will charge the battery just when the car is braking? Because I don't think that is one of those systems that use the braking itself to produce power. .
drvai is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-22-2008, 08:32 AM   #17
Epacy
Reincarnated
 
Epacy's Avatar
 
Drives: 02 Maxima SE
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: IL

Posts: 4,227
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
I don't really follow the 1er very closely. It is new to the US but has been available abroad for some time, right? So the BER change is a "mid-life" change for the 1er? Will these mid-life changes be present in the 2008 135? If that is the case I would say the deal is pretty sealed on BER for the M3. I'll be glad this feature made it but am also suprised by its lack of mention in US information like the brochures. Perhaps they know most Americans and most that will buy the M3 don't give a squat about mpg. Thanks for the work on this one!
1er has been abroad for some time. I believe this is a model refresh with the new 1er models, not so much a "mid-life" change.
Again, I have nothing conrete on NA 1er BER, but press release have indicated the 1er will have BER.
I also read an older article that said the BER/AGM batteries were black and the standard batteries were white. Not sure if this still holds true, however, you can see the M3 has a black battery, same as the Euro one. It is the 1er that has the white battery

Quote:
Originally Posted by sayemthree
pics look very different to me????
White battery is the 1er.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rvacha View Post
Again if I were to take a *guess* I'd say that corporately BMW wants to appear green, while avoiding giving potential buyers of its highest performing cars (i.e. ///M) an impression that the product is overly green, as it might imply "performance compromise". If so this might explain why there are few and sketchy details.
BER also uses a special alternator as well.
Also, BER doesn't indicate a performance compromise. It is the other way around. It actually reduces the load on the engine so more energy can be applied for moving the car.
__________________
Epacy is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-22-2008, 08:37 AM   #18
drvai
Major
 
drvai's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3 AW
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: FL

Posts: 1,260
iTrader: (0)

Actually it seems to be a 90ah battery, which is not that much, considering it the car has to fully depend on her during acceleration (including A/C). Must be a really powerful alternator.

I was really happy when I heard this for he first time, as I always find that the A/C leaks power from the engine. Some cars turn the A/C off during full acceleration, but it's not the same thing.
drvai is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-22-2008, 12:06 PM   #19
GregW / Oregon
Commander-In-Chief
 
Drives: 2015 M4 Coupe, 2012 ML350
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Lake Oswego, OR

Posts: 7,537
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
BER

Quote:
Originally Posted by drvai View Post
BER in the sense that the alternator will charge the battery just when the car is braking? Because I don't think that is one of those systems that use the braking itself to produce power. .
Epacy and I had an extensive discussion of this in this thread: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108637. My position is that BMW seems to be misusing the term "BER", since it does not seem to be truly regenerative. Rather, the alternator is only engaged in non-load conditions. Every car produces electrical power in these conditions. The fact that BMW is limiting the alternator use is more efficient, but hardly regenerative.
__________________

Greg Lake Oswego, Oregon, USA
2015 M4 Coupe - Silverstone/Sakhir/CF
2012 ML350
GregW / Oregon is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:45 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST