OFFICIAL M-DCT / M-DKG gearbox info! (0-100kmh) + acceleration + german price - Page 2

swamp2 · 01-15-2008, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neo871

it may sound stupid but....does anyone think that this new double clutch gearbox will be available on other e90 models like 335d? just asking....

DCT is one form or another, though not "M-DCT" will work its way across nearly every BMW model.

lucid · 01-15-2008, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swamp2

Excellent, wow what a read. I'm so excited.

I prediced 40-50 lb and .28 seconds gains respectively. Again as much as 0-60 is bragging rights, and not really as important as 0-100, this means we will likely see a sub 4.0s 0-60 run and it likely means they nailed LC pretty well. But it does leave the big question will the US get the same LC as EU? I sure hope so.

Other comments - details I found particularly interesting:

Supports engine rpm of up to 9000! (where will the CSL fall?)
Shift times: The upshifts take "a few milliseconds" . This is consitent with VW DSG CLAIMS of 8 ms, but not consitent with more reasonable estimates of what DSG actually obtains (30 ms)
It does have different ratios and a drastically different final drive
It is a dry sump unit with 9 liters of fluid, wow, cool
BMW used substantial knowledge of SMG to develop DCT, again as I predicted. It probably amounts to a lot of software re-use
Progressive yellow to red shift lights and the ability to turn them off
Solid aluminum paddles - nice
Auto kick down to best gear for max accelration - fantastic for freeway cruising to "race" mode in an instant

My CarTest simulations are included below. I really thought they would use the same final drive but did not. My predictions of combined gear ratios were within 10% and acceleration numbers were almost dead on comparing the final sim based on known specs with my guesses on specs. Looks like the DCT will be a touch slower on absolute top speed. But faster all the way through 175. I have used the weight figures from the DCT press release. 1 is 6MT, 2 are my initial predictions (just updating the weight), 3 is sim with final specs.

Good post Swamp. 0-100mph under 10sec!

Did you see my post on total reductions? Why is it lower for M-DCT in 1st gear?

Remonster · 01-15-2008, 04:10 PM

Good to see BMW is overengineering the tranny to work at up to 9,000RPM and to cope with extra horsepower and torque, that must be good news for the tuners. The DSS system VW is using apparently isn't rated for more than 250 horsepower (thereabouts) so people who plan to mod their MkV GTIs and newer A4s often opt for the manual transmission.

E90ice · 01-15-2008, 04:11 PM

Does anyone know how fast the DCT is? I know in the official documentation they say "a few miliseconds". I know Audi's DSG was 8 miliseconds.

e46e92love · 01-15-2008, 04:24 PM

And the King re-establishes himself AS KING

All hale BMW!!!!!

Keto · 01-15-2008, 04:49 PM

/broken record

BMW, please confirm US availability and price, please.

swamp2 · 01-15-2008, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucid

Good post Swamp. 0-100mph under 10sec!

Did you see my post on total reductions? Why is it lower for M-DCT in 1st gear?

And if you believe the outlier time R&T got of 9.4 to 100 for the 6MT then we could see a sub 9.0 second run to 100 with M-DCT. That is freaking fast.

Not entirely sure about the gearing. Sims indicate better performance across the board with a larger 1st gear ratio. I also predicted they could both better the acceleration and simultaneously better the top speed. The gains in 0-X speed times at lower speeds are mostly from shift time reductions. Since the 6MT car is already likely highly traction limited in 1st they do achieve a higher top speed in 1st gear 44 vs. 42 and perhaps let the DCT clutching manage the traction more efficiently. Also, by having the DCT car fully accelerating while the MT car shifts you really gain some ground. If the DCT car had a larger total gear ratio product it would have to shift before the MT car and would be in 2nd gear, earlier, accelerating less compared to the MT still in 1st. The launch control things at work would be difficult to impossible to simulate with CarTest as well. It may also have to do with the total gear ratio way out in 7th being slightly more oriented toward efficiency rather than performance.

bud001 · 01-15-2008, 05:00 PM

I am wondering if it would work as well as the other dual clutch transmissions in the real world (aka street-auto mode). The SMG's biggest flaw is that the shift is jerky in auto mode and not very suitable for daily use. I hope the new trans would make this as smooth as the VW-DSG seems to be.

SpencerM3 · 01-15-2008, 05:19 PM

Thank you

Hans Delbruck · 01-15-2008, 05:27 PM

Wow... just when I was starting to consider 6MT.... M-DCT sounds like a must-have option. Pretty convincing!

gasman · 01-15-2008, 05:32 PM

Who cares...my 335 is still faster!!

masmole · 01-15-2008, 05:38 PM

The whole M-DCT talk has me drooling for one. I am now seriously considering passing on my ordered status 112 6MT car and waiting for the first M-DCT car my dealer gets. What a dilemma this is! I've always been an instant gratification kind of guy and have always planned on the 6MT from the start, but the M-DCT is starting too look real good the more I hear and read about it, and although no official US production date has been announced, I can't see why it would be too far off from the europeans. I wish BMW would give us some info already.... would make my decision that much easier. If it's March-June production, I can wait but longer than that I'm not so sure.

gasman · 01-15-2008, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masmole

The whole M-DCT talk has me drooling for one. I am now seriously considering passing on my ordered status 112 6MT car and waiting for the first M-DCT car my dealer gets. What a dilemma this is! I've always been an instant gratification kind of guy and have always planned on the 6MT from the start, but the M-DCT is starting too look like real good the more I hear and read about it, and although no official US production date has been announced, I can't see why it would be too far off from the europeans. I wish BMW would give us some info already.... would make my decision that much easier. If it's March-June production, I can wait but longer than that I'm not so sure.

With so much info coming in in the past few days, I have no doubt that M-DCT will be in the US sooner rather than later. I'd be willing to bet that it will be available here starting Week 10 like everyone is saying!

the_stranger · 01-15-2008, 05:58 PM

Impressive figures

lucid · 01-15-2008, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gasman

I'd be willing to bet that it will be available here starting Week 10 like everyone is saying!

I'm inclined to agree. Once the car is officially sold in the US and is rolling out the production line, it would be kind of strange to say you guys in the US can't have DCT, but can have 6MT if DCT is an option elsewhere. However, supply might not be as high as 6MT initially.

lucid · 01-15-2008, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swamp2

Since the 6MT car is already likely highly traction limited in 1st they do achieve a higher top speed in 1st gear 44 vs. 42 and perhaps let the DCT clutching manage the traction more efficiently.

The traction explanation makes sense to me.

Epacy · 01-15-2008, 06:45 PM

Hey South, looks pretty cool. Like the press release, it makes me think...

GregW / Oregon · 01-15-2008, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epacy

Hey South, looks pretty cool. Like the press release, it makes me think...

I'm hoping, from a selfish point of view, that the US availability is way out so I'm not tempted to wait, or go ahead with my order and have to say "aw sh*t, I missed it by 2 weeks!"

masmole · 01-15-2008, 07:02 PM

One possible US delay for the M-DCT is the crash testing and all the hoops that need to be jumped associated with it. Since the powertrain is part of the crash structure and plays a huge part on how a car deforms during a crash, does anyone think that BMW must first donate a fleet of M-DCT equipped US-spec M3's for crash testing?

That's what I fear might happen. But then hopefully I'm wrong and it's a simple matter of the current crash testing being satisfactory for the cars despite the slightly different transmission and increased curb weight, and thus no delays.

lucid · 01-15-2008, 07:15 PM

M-DCT has been development for some time. I don't see why they couldn't have crash tested it together with the US spec 6MT.

lucid · 01-15-2008, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just_me

Full press release
PDF: --> BMW M-DCT w/ Drivelogic 7-speed dual-clutch Transmission Info

Thanks to Just_me by the way.

It's amazing how efficient this forum is in publishing key news!

zzzdoc · 01-15-2008, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gasman

Who cares...my 335 is still faster!!

only if u get extra proceed stickers

01-15-2008, 04:11 PM	#26
E90ice Banned Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe Join Date: May 2006 Location: WA Posts: 2,006 iTrader: (0)	Does anyone know how fast the DCT is? I know in the official documentation they say "a few miliseconds". I know Audi's DSG was 8 miliseconds. __________________

01-15-2008, 04:24 PM	#27
e46e92love Colonel Drives: e92 ///M3; X3 (wife's) Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: The East Side of Things Posts: 2,990 iTrader: (0)	And the King re-establishes himself AS KING All hale BMW!!!!! __________________ "...it's not about the money and not about the brand of the car, it's about handling,performance and passion......And that, no other car has all together like an M3........when you talk about the most complete car the M is invincible." --Tony Kanaan.

01-15-2008, 05:00 PM	#30
bud001 That Guy Drives: E90 330i Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Red Sox Nation (in spirit), Miami (for real) Posts: 158 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2006 330i (E90) [0.00]	I am wondering if it would work as well as the other dual clutch transmissions in the real world (aka street-auto mode). The SMG's biggest flaw is that the shift is jerky in auto mode and not very suitable for daily use. I hope the new trans would make this as smooth as the VW-DSG seems to be. __________________ 2006 330i Silver/Black/Premium/Sport/Nav-iDrive/MOST-iPod integration

01-15-2008, 05:19 PM	#31
SpencerM3 Sauce Drives: 2009 SSII E90 M3 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,028 iTrader: (1)	Thank you __________________ 2009 E90 M3 \| Silverstone II \| Black Novillo \| HRE P40's \| Akrapovic Exhaust \| Eibach Pro Kit \| Jet Black Kidney Grilles \| SSII Side Reflectors \| SSII Side Gills \| LUX H8 Angel Eyes \| Macht Schnell Filter \| Tecnocraft Envy Charge Pipe "M3 drivers have no friends." - Jeremy Clarkson

01-15-2008, 05:38 PM	#34
masmole Lieutenant Drives: 07 RS4, 07 ML63, 06 M5 Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 489 iTrader: (0)	The whole M-DCT talk has me drooling for one. I am now seriously considering passing on my ordered status 112 6MT car and waiting for the first M-DCT car my dealer gets. What a dilemma this is! I've always been an instant gratification kind of guy and have always planned on the 6MT from the start, but the M-DCT is starting too look real good the more I hear and read about it, and although no official US production date has been announced, I can't see why it would be too far off from the europeans. I wish BMW would give us some info already.... would make my decision that much easier. If it's March-June production, I can wait but longer than that I'm not so sure. Last edited by masmole; 01-15-2008 at 09:16 PM.

01-15-2008, 04:10 PM	#25
Remonster Captain Drives: 2013 335is Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 763 iTrader: (0)	Good to see BMW is overengineering the tranny to work at up to 9,000RPM and to cope with extra horsepower and torque, that must be good news for the tuners. The DSS system VW is using apparently isn't rated for more than 250 horsepower (thereabouts) so people who plan to mod their MkV GTIs and newer A4s often opt for the manual transmission.

01-15-2008, 04:49 PM	#28
Keto Major Drives: 550i M-sport AW Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: N'awlins Posts: 1,089 iTrader: (1)	/broken record BMW, please confirm US availability and price, please.

01-15-2008, 05:27 PM	#32
Hans Delbruck BMW & MB - friends in my garage Drives: C63, 135i, 1959 BUICK Join Date: May 2005 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 1,284 iTrader: (0)	Wow... just when I was starting to consider 6MT.... M-DCT sounds like a must-have option. Pretty convincing!

01-15-2008, 05:32 PM	#33
gasman Member Drives: 08 RR Sport SC, 08 AW/FR M3 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 505 iTrader: (0)	Who cares...my 335 is still faster!!

01-15-2008, 05:58 PM	#36
the_stranger Captain Drives: e92 M3 6MT Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Lafayette, IN Posts: 926 iTrader: (1) Garage List 2009 BMW M3 Coupe [0.00]	Impressive figures __________________ 2008 e92 M3 6MT AW/BLACK (SOLD) 2009 e92 M3 6MT AW/FR

01-15-2008, 06:45 PM	#39
Epacy Reincarnated Drives: 02 Maxima SE Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: IL Posts: 4,227 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 M3 [0.00]	Hey South, looks pretty cool. Like the press release, it makes me think... __________________ Pearl Bliss

01-15-2008, 07:02 PM	#41
masmole Lieutenant Drives: 07 RS4, 07 ML63, 06 M5 Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 489 iTrader: (0)	One possible US delay for the M-DCT is the crash testing and all the hoops that need to be jumped associated with it. Since the powertrain is part of the crash structure and plays a huge part on how a car deforms during a crash, does anyone think that BMW must first donate a fleet of M-DCT equipped US-spec M3's for crash testing? That's what I fear might happen. But then hopefully I'm wrong and it's a simple matter of the current crash testing being satisfactory for the cars despite the slightly different transmission and increased curb weight, and thus no delays.

01-15-2008, 07:15 PM	#42
lucid Major General Drives: E30 M3; Expedition Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: USA Posts: 8,037 iTrader: (0)	M-DCT has been development for some time. I don't see why they couldn't have crash tested it together with the US spec 6MT.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search