BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
View Poll Results: What influenced BMW USA's M3 pricing the most?
KILL Lexus IS-F and AMG C63 and keep the segment to themselves 39 25.32%
BMW 335i was such a good car, the M3 couldn't command a bigger premium 18 11.69%
US Economy slowing down in 2008 27 17.53%
To hit the unit goal of 100,000 units, need to price the car to hit these volumes 70 45.45%
Voters: 154. You may not vote on this poll

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-15-2008, 03:49 PM   #23
T Bone
Brigadier General
T Bone's Avatar
145
Rep
4,021
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Check out my response to you in that thread. You need to fix your prices and thus your value equation is off somewhat.
Sorry mate, I just saw this post, I think the cat is out of the bag but I see that your point is understood already.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by gbb357 View Post
Fully loaded IS-F is $66k, fully loaded e90 M3 is $72k.

T-Bone, i still don't understand why you think the engine is weak, especially with this logic.



And my answer to this is, with that logic, that means that all of the competitions engine is weak as well since they have all similar performance. But the bottom line is, the BMW loyal fans and enthusiasts will not even consider any other cars especially the IS-F. Even if the IS-F is cheaper. And if you buy the M3 stock and compare the IS-F stock, the ISF has no chance. The only incentive it has over the M3 stock is that the ISF comes with leather and 19' inch rims stock.

I do care about engineering and engineering elegance. I love the engineering that has gone into the S65, it is a chip off the S85 V10. The S65 is beautiful because it delivers more power at a lower weight than the outgoing S54 I6.

Some people highlight MB or Lexus delivers a 400+ engine too but they do it at the expense of displacement. To many people they don't care, a 400+ hp engine is just a 400+ hp engine no matter how it is achieved.

I am not one of these people. Any monkey brand can deliver 400+ hp with a 6 liter displacement. I appreciate the engineering that has gone into the BMW engine. I also take comfort in the fact that since BMW developed a new engine for the M3, they are not going to compromise on the other components.

The MB / Lexus / Vette engines all deliver great power from an absolute perspective but who cares.....I want power but I also want the elegance of the BMW engines.

Consider this logic similar to people appreciating Rolls Royce for the detail they put in their wood.... Hyundai has "wood" panels but it is not the same.

Oh...the other consideration, the M3 will blow the doors off an ISF / RS4 / C63 around the track....

Let me ask you.....why on God's green earth would people choose an ISF over the legendary M3? The price difference is a weekend in Vegas.

BMW just crushed Lexus' dream of entering this space with a superior product at a great price.
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
Appreciate 0
      01-15-2008, 04:08 PM   #24
gbb357
Captain
24
Rep
707
Posts

 
Drives: IS300
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
Sorry mate, I just saw this post, I think the cat is out of the bag but I see that your point is understood already.....





I do care about engineering and engineering elegance. I love the engineering that has gone into the S65, it is a chip off the S85 V10. The S65 is beautiful because it delivers more power at a lower weight than the outgoing S54 I6.

Some people highlight MB or Lexus delivers a 400+ engine too but they do it at the expense of displacement. To many people they don't care, a 400+ hp engine is just a 400+ hp engine no matter how it is achieved.

I am not one of these people. Any monkey brand can deliver 400+ hp with a 6 liter displacement. I appreciate the engineering that has gone into the BMW engine. I also take comfort in the fact that since BMW developed a new engine for the M3, they are not going to compromise on the other components.

The MB / Lexus / Vette engines all deliver great power from an absolute perspective but who cares.....I want power but I also want the elegance of the BMW engines.

Consider this logic similar to people appreciating Rolls Royce for the detail they put in their wood.... Hyundai has "wood" panels but it is not the same.

Oh...the other consideration, the M3 will blow the doors off an ISF / RS4 / C63 around the track....

Let me ask you.....why on God's green earth would people choose an ISF over the legendary M3? The price difference is a weekend in Vegas.

BMW just crushed Lexus' dream of entering this space with a superior product at a great price.
You ask the question, i gave you an answer. To you $9,000 might not mean anything, to others it does. I understand and agree that the M3's engine is an engineering marvel, but that's not the issue. You said the ISF engine is weak and you also said that it delivers the same or similar performance like the M3, C63, and RS4. So again, with that logic or reasoning, the competitiors engines are weak as well. And if the M3's engine is so advance, which it is, then why does is it deliver the same performance in the straight line with much less weight(around 200lbs). Should'nt it be blowing away the competition in the straight line. Don't bring up the handling dynamics, we're not talking about that, we already know that the M3 dominates this.
Appreciate 0
      01-15-2008, 04:13 PM   #25
T Bone
Brigadier General
T Bone's Avatar
145
Rep
4,021
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbb357 View Post
You ask the question, i gave you an answer. To you $9,000 might not mean anything, to others it does. I understand and agree that the M3's engine is an engineering marvel, but that's not the issue. You said the ISF engine is weak and you also said that it delivers the same or similar performance like the M3, C63, and RS4. So again, with that logic or reasoning, the competitiors engines are weak as well. And if the M3's engine is so advance, which it is, then why does is it deliver the same performance in the straight line with much less weight(around 200lbs). Should'nt it be blowing away the competition in the straight line. Don't bring up the handling dynamics, we're not talking about that, we already know that the M3 dominates this.

Gearing.... The 6MT is a fine tranny but the 7 speed DCT will illuminate how the cars' straight line performance. Who cars about 0-60....after 60, the 7 speed, I predict, will walk even the C63 at high speeds.

The ISF engine is weak because it is a direct decendant to the LS600 engine, which is a slow revving boat anchor. Yes, I will always prefer oversquare engines.
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
Appreciate 0
      01-15-2008, 05:12 PM   #26
gbb357
Captain
24
Rep
707
Posts

 
Drives: IS300
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

So now you're saying it's weak because it is the same engine from LS600 that is tuned by Yamaha. Not because of this reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Bone
It is weak because there is nothing stellar about it in its class. This is not a comparison of 1/4 drag strips. All the cars in the class offer similar performance....M3, IS-F, C63 and even the RS4...
So why don't you give me a definition of a stellar engine. BTW, you seriously think that $9,000 dollars is nothing?
Appreciate 0
      01-15-2008, 06:18 PM   #27
T Bone
Brigadier General
T Bone's Avatar
145
Rep
4,021
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbb357 View Post
So now you're saying it's weak because it is the same engine from LS600 that is tuned by Yamaha. Not because of this reason.



So why don't you give me a definition of a stellar engine. BTW, you seriously think that $9,000 dollars is nothing?

Yamaha don't they make guitars?

The LH600 and other heavy V8s are built to deliver torque to move big ass cars with hybrid batteries in them. They are heavy on the inside and don't rev freely like say a BMW engine or the Carrera GT V10 or the F430 heck, even the RS4 engine....these are engines built for performance cars. They don't used engines borrowed from Luxury Beasts.

Hey if you think this is BMW brand snobbery, hell I don't I care I drive a BMW


$9000? Hey a Dinan Flash + Oil Cooler is $4000. In the M3, you get a shit-hot car out of the box. The ISF, people might save a few grand to buy suits for meeting their friends for drinks at a Martini bar....the point is simple.

BMW priced the M3 so that anyone even considering the ISF will get the M3. Do I need to list the reasons? Performance, Brand, Heritage, Fun??

If you are considering the ISF and cannot afford the M3, then you probably couldn't afford the ISF.
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
Appreciate 0
      01-15-2008, 06:39 PM   #28
UltimateBMW
Brigadier General
UltimateBMW's Avatar
105
Rep
3,287
Posts

 
Drives: MP4
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: South

iTrader: (0)

It's simply priced for success. Everything in the poll was a factor.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      01-15-2008, 06:39 PM   #29
gbb357
Captain
24
Rep
707
Posts

 
Drives: IS300
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

Actually, Yamaha makes Stereos and high performance bikes as well. You did'nt answer my question again. What's your definition of a stellar engine? So you really think that $9,000 dollars is not much of a difference, it's nothing for you. Then i guess you're a baller. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, you're obviously just flaming and trolling about the IS-F. For what reason, i have no idea. I can afford the ISF, but it's not a good time to buy it right now for me. But i would never consider the e90 M3, i'm not a big fan of the e90 styling in general, the e92 in the other hand is a different story. That is one of the hottest coupe available right now behind the S5. But with 2 kids, a coupe is just not ideal for me. Again with similar performance, the ISF is just as hot out of the box, the only big difference is, it comes with standard leather, sunroof, and 19' rims.
Appreciate 0
      01-15-2008, 06:56 PM   #30
gbb357
Captain
24
Rep
707
Posts

 
Drives: IS300
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

Here's another one for you TBone. Do you think the same way about the Aston Martins engine for the Vanquish, DB9, and DBS just because the V12 engine in them are just Ford V6's mated together, so they're weak and not stellar. I really like to know your logic behind this.
Appreciate 0
      01-15-2008, 07:20 PM   #31
T Bone
Brigadier General
T Bone's Avatar
145
Rep
4,021
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbb357 View Post
Here's another one for you TBone. Do you think the same way about the Aston Martins engine for the Vanquish, DB9, and DBS just because the V12 engine in them are just Ford V6's mated together, so they're weak and not stellar. I really like to know your logic behind this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbb357 View Post
Actually, Yamaha makes Stereos and high performance bikes as well. You did'nt answer my question again. What's your definition of a stellar engine? So you really think that $9,000 dollars is not much of a difference, it's nothing for you. Then i guess you're a baller.

If you really care about what I think are stellar engines?

BMW S85 V10
BMW S65 V8
BMW N54 I6 TT
Audi RS4
Ferrari F430
Carrera GT V10
...to name a few

Why? Because these engines were purpose built for the application (except the N54). The engine's characteristics define the car's performance (except RS4 where the drivetrain sucks the power from an otherwise nice engine). I like the N54 because it is BMW's first turbo gas engine in decades and it is sweet....a class killer.

Engines that I like include the LSx for the Z06 vettes.... Big displacement but packaging and fuel efficiency is great.

Engines that are borrowed from other platforms just don't do it for me including the ISF V8 or the C63 V8. You can mask alot of laziness and poor design with displacement.

If I JUST cared about performance it doesn't matter but these big displacement engines mean they just can't breathe....I don't like that.

If you really want to know what makes me tick, I hate the ISF, is that I find Toyota somewhat arrogant thinking they can put together a car from spare parts bins like lego, slap a badge on it and BUY their way into this segment without the years of discipline that BMW M have shown.

BMW just put a monkey wrench into Toyota's plans and I am happy they did.

On the $9000, sure I would rather have $9000 but hey if want the M3, I am sure people will find a way.
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
Appreciate 0
      01-15-2008, 07:27 PM   #32
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
184
Rep
13,842
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 SO/CSAT F80 M3
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
The ISF engine is weak because it is a direct decendant to the LS600 engine, which is a slow revving boat anchor. Yes, I will always prefer oversquare engines.
+1

Now, should Lexus see it fit to drop the 5L LF-A V10 in the Lexus IS, then we will have a winner. Well, assuming they fix the god-awful aesthetics. Maybe just the V10 in a LS350 with a tasteful body kit. I'm sure a tuner will do that at some point. And charge 100k+ for it.
__________________
A gen-u-ine BMW eff-eight-zero with them tandem clutches in the transmission and that dad gum sun roof on the top-a da cawr.
Appreciate 0
      01-15-2008, 07:56 PM   #33
gbb357
Captain
24
Rep
707
Posts

 
Drives: IS300
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
If you really care about what I think are stellar engines?

BMW S85 V10
BMW S65 V8
BMW N54 I6 TT
Audi RS4
Ferrari F430
Carrera GT V10
...to name a few

Why? Because these engines were purpose built for the application (except the N54). The engine's characteristics define the car's performance (except RS4 where the drivetrain sucks the power from an otherwise nice engine). I like the N54 because it is BMW's first turbo gas engine in decades and it is sweet....a class killer.

Engines that I like include the LSx for the Z06 vettes.... Big displacement but packaging and fuel efficiency is great.

Engines that are borrowed from other platforms just don't do it for me including the ISF V8 or the C63 V8. You can mask alot of laziness and poor design with displacement.

If I JUST cared about performance it doesn't matter but these big displacement engines mean they just can't breathe....I don't like that.

If you really want to know what makes me tick, I hate the ISF, is that I find Toyota somewhat arrogant thinking they can put together a car from spare parts bins like lego, slap a badge on it and BUY their way into this segment without the years of discipline that BMW M have shown.

BMW just put a monkey wrench into Toyota's plans and I am happy they did.

On the $9000, sure I would rather have $9000 but hey if want the M3, I am sure people will find a way.
So you're saying the engine in the Vanquish, DBS, and DB9 is weak and not stellar. That's a good one Tbone. So you finally admit that you're hatin on the ISF. And just because they did'nt develop a special engine for it. Aside from the engine, the M3 is really just a regular 3 series with bigger tires, rims, and beefed up suspension with a body kit. Just like the IS-F with the exception of the engine. And what do you think the e46 M3 was, wasn't it just the same engine for the regular 330 but just tuned up. And the $9,000 difference, look at it this way. If a regular customer is looking for a high performance sedan, he's not a BMW fanboy or a Lexus fanboy. Don't you think he'll be more reluctant to spend an extra $9,000 for a similarly equipped car with similar performance. As i have said before, a car company has to start somewhere, just like BMW did. BMW did'nt always make high performance cars. The 3 series where just econoboxes when they first came out. It wasn't till the M3 came out in 86' that it became a serious performance car. So don't hate Tbone, the M3 will still be ahead of the game and everyone else is playing catch up.
Appreciate 0
      01-15-2008, 08:15 PM   #34
T Bone
Brigadier General
T Bone's Avatar
145
Rep
4,021
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbb357 View Post
So you're saying the engine in the Vanquish, DBS, and DB9 is weak and not stellar. That's a good one Tbone. So you finally admit that you're hatin on the ISF. And just because they did'nt develop a special engine for it. Aside from the engine, the M3 is really just a regular 3 series with bigger tires, rims, and beefed up suspension with a body kit. Just like the IS-F with the exception of the engine. And what do you think the e46 M3 was, wasn't it just the same engine for the regular 330 but just tuned up. And the $9,000 difference, look at it this way. If a regular customer is looking for a high performance sedan, he's not a BMW fanboy or a Lexus fanboy. Don't you think he'll be more reluctant to spend an extra $9,000 for a similarly equipped car with similar performance. As i have said before, a car company has to start somewhere, just like BMW did. BMW did'nt always make high performance cars. The 3 series where just econoboxes when they first came out. It wasn't till the M3 came out in 86' that it became a serious performance car. So don't hate Tbone, the M3 will still be ahead of the game and everyone else is playing catch up.

We all gotta be passionate about something. I use to love Porsche until they got lost with the Cayenne and the upcoming Panamera. Nobody packages cars for what I am looking for like BMW these days. I started the conversion with the E30 M3.

You hold out the $9000 (or less) like it is a barrier for someone in this class. If Lexus wants a chance in this segment, they will need to deal with people like me. Someone who likes cars and has a memory. I don't hate Lexus per se....I hate that they are arrogant enough to try to knock off BMW with spare parts - yes that promotional video put me over.

BTW, the DBS is irrelevant, I would never buy a UK car in a million years.
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
Appreciate 0
      01-15-2008, 08:38 PM   #35
gbb357
Captain
24
Rep
707
Posts

 
Drives: IS300
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
We all gotta be passionate about something. I use to love Porsche until they got lost with the Cayenne and the upcoming Panamera. Nobody packages cars for what I am looking for like BMW these days. I started the conversion with the E30 M3.

You hold out the $9000 (or less) like it is a barrier for someone in this class. If Lexus wants a chance in this segment, they will need to deal with people like me. Someone who likes cars and has a memory. I don't hate Lexus per se....I hate that they are arrogant enough to try to knock off BMW with spare parts - yes that promotional video put me over.

BTW, the DBS is irrelevant, I would never buy a UK car in a million years.
Let's be real, people like you will never ever buy a Lexus. Just listening to your senseless logic makes it quite clear that you are a diehard loyal BMW fanboy. That's fine, there's nothing wrong with being a fanboy, i am a huge AMG fanboy myself. The difference is i don't hate on any other cars and i don't put down cars just for the sake of putting them down, i am a huge car enthusiast. I do criticize cars when needed to but i do it objectively, or at least i try. You in the other hand, you're just ranting Lexus sucks and have nothing really to back it up with. I do like Lexus just as much as i like BMW. I appreciate the effort that other car makers do to be able to compete regardless of the results. Just because a company is making an effort to compete does not mean they're being arrogant, that's just the name of the game, that's life. The way you've been responding and posting though, that's arrogant. For you to say that the DBS is irrelevant shows even more of your arrogance. Let me tell you, $9,000 is a big deal in this class. Who ever says otherwise is in big denial. If it wasn't, BMW would'nt be pricing the M3 so competitively. And another thing, nobody is knocking BMW anytime soon, but they're trying. And that's a good thing, that's why BMW is where they are right now because of the competition. You got to have good competition. You're still not getting it, Lexus has to start somewhere. No car company will get it perfectly right the first time, it's the effort that counts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbone
Engines that I like include the LSx for the Z06 vettes.... Big displacement but packaging and fuel efficiency is great.
BTW, this statement of yours completely contradicts of what you've been criticizing the ISF engine is about. The Z06 is 6.2L with 500hp. The M6's 5.0 V10 is 500hp and the M6 is almost 4000lbs. Would you criticize the M6 the samy way?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbone
Some people highlight MB or Lexus delivers a 400+ engine too but they do it at the expense of displacement. To many people they don't care, a 400+ hp engine is just a 400+ hp engine no matter how it is achieved.

A 5.0 liter engine? See what BMW or Porsche can do with that..... The engine is heavy and slow to rev.

Last edited by gbb357; 01-15-2008 at 09:17 PM.
Appreciate 0
      01-15-2008, 10:10 PM   #36
T Bone
Brigadier General
T Bone's Avatar
145
Rep
4,021
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbb357 View Post
Let's be real, people like you will never ever buy a Lexus. Just listening to your senseless logic makes it quite clear that you are a diehard loyal BMW fanboy. That's fine, there's nothing wrong with being a fanboy, i am a huge AMG fanboy myself. The difference is i don't hate on any other cars and i don't put down cars just for the sake of putting them down, i am a huge car enthusiast. I do criticize cars when needed to but i do it objectively, or at least i try. You in the other hand, you're just ranting Lexus sucks and have nothing really to back it up with. I do like Lexus just as much as i like BMW. I appreciate the effort that other car makers do to be able to compete regardless of the results. Just because a company is making an effort to compete does not mean they're being arrogant, that's just the name of the game, that's life. The way you've been responding and posting though, that's arrogant. For you to say that the DBS is irrelevant shows even more of your arrogance. Let me tell you, $9,000 is a big deal in this class. Who ever says otherwise is in big denial. If it wasn't, BMW would'nt be pricing the M3 so competitively. And another thing, nobody is knocking BMW anytime soon, but they're trying. And that's a good thing, that's why BMW is where they are right now because of the competition. You got to have good competition. You're still not getting it, Lexus has to start somewhere. No car company will get it perfectly right the first time, it's the effort that counts.



BTW, this statement of yours completely contradicts of what you've been criticizing the ISF engine is about. The Z06 is 6.2L with 500hp. The M6's 5.0 V10 is 500hp and the M6 is almost 4000lbs. Would you criticize the M6 the samy way?

Step away from the Ledge!

If you ask Footie, he will tell you that I am Audi's anti-christ, yet their 4.2 FSI is a good engine.

Lexus does leather really well. I cannot knock their rearview mirrors. I really like their glass too. See I am not a Lexus hater.

When it comes to their engines, still lame. I know you think that I contradicted myself with the Vette LS7 engines (the displacement is actually 7 liters).....actually no. The LS7 engines are dry sump, oversquare engines that have been developed to the best as possible. It is lighter than the S85 V10 and more fuel efficient. The only knock on the engine is the bigger displacement and in the grand scheme of things, it is minor in the case of the LS7.

Now with Lexus, it is big honking heavy engine from a lead sled that they had a guitar tuner, tune for them. I can't wait to test drive one, I would be surprised if it didn't understeer like an Audi. I would have respected Lexus alot more if they came with the right weapons.

I am not sure why you are concerned with my finances but I will never buy a British car....not even in consideration and it has nothing to do with affordability for me.
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
Appreciate 0
      01-15-2008, 10:45 PM   #37
FifthStreetz
O! So Sour!!
FifthStreetz's Avatar
United_States
193
Rep
15,559
Posts

 
Drives: Fast 240z / Slow M3
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Fort Lee, NJ

iTrader: (24)

Garage List
2008 M3  [4.75]
I think its a combonation of things, but mostly to sell in volume.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2008, 08:15 AM   #38
gbb357
Captain
24
Rep
707
Posts

 
Drives: IS300
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

Yes you did contradicted yourself with the Vette engine. I'm not questioning your finances, you're the one who said and thinks i can't afford the ISF. The issue is not whether you will ever buy a British car. The point is, your ridiculous logic that the engines in the DBS, DB9, and VAnquish is weak and not stellar because it came from another car is sooo idiotic and moronic.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2008, 12:28 PM   #39
T Bone
Brigadier General
T Bone's Avatar
145
Rep
4,021
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbb357 View Post
Yes you did contradicted yourself with the Vette engine. I'm not questioning your finances, you're the one who said and thinks i can't afford the ISF. The issue is not whether you will ever buy a British car. The point is, your ridiculous logic that the engines in the DBS, DB9, and VAnquish is weak and not stellar because it came from another car is sooo idiotic and moronic.

It is not a contradiction. You asked for which engines I liked I responded. The LS7 is not a boat anchor like the ISF engine. It is oversquare, dry sump and has a whole host of other technologies. The only knock on the engine is the big displacement. The knock against the S85 V10 is the fuel economy.

It is utterly logical.

The AM engines are irrelevant because i couldn't give a toss what these guys do because i don't care.

The ISF engine is weak because it is LS600 boat anchor tuned by people who make guitars.

Pal, I never implied you couldn't afford an ISF, I don't care. It is you who kept insisting on whether I valued $9000. This is about engine technology and the ISF doesn't have it. Take a chill pill before you have a stroke.
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2008, 12:55 PM   #40
gbb357
Captain
24
Rep
707
Posts

 
Drives: IS300
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
It is not a contradiction. You asked for which engines I liked I responded. The LS7 is not a boat anchor like the ISF engine. It is oversquare, dry sump and has a whole host of other technologies. The only knock on the engine is the big displacement. The knock against the S85 V10 is the fuel economy.

It is utterly logical.

The AM engines are irrelevant because i couldn't give a toss what these guys do because i don't care.

The ISF engine is weak because it is LS600 boat anchor tuned by people who make guitars.

Pal, I never implied you couldn't afford an ISF, I don't care. It is you who kept insisting on whether I valued $9000. This is about engine technology and the ISF doesn't have it. Take a chill pill before you have a stroke.
You said you don't like the ISF engine because of it's big displacement, yet you praise the 7.0 Vette engine, that's a contradiction. Do you even know what the word "contradiction" means.

Just because you don't care for the AM engines that does'nt mean your logic does not apply. I am talking about your logic that just because an engine is borrowed from another platform that engine is regard weak. And what proof do you have that the ISF engine does not have advance technology. I don't nee a chill pill bro, it's all good. This is fun for me, trust me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbone
Engines that are borrowed from other platforms just don't do it for me including the ISF V8 or the C63 V8.
As far your comment about what i can't afford. Here it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbone
If you are considering the ISF and cannot afford the M3, then you probably couldn't afford the ISF.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2008, 01:00 PM   #41
T Bone
Brigadier General
T Bone's Avatar
145
Rep
4,021
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbb357 View Post
You said you don't like the ISF engine because of it's big displacement, yet you praise the 7.0 Vette engine, that's a contradiction. Do you even know what the word "contradiction" means.

Just because you don't care for the AM engines that does'nt mean your logic does not apply. I am talking about your logic that just because an engine is borrowed from another platform that engine is regard weak. And what proof do you have that the ISF engine does not have advance technology. I don't nee a chill pill bro, it's all good. This is fun for me, trust me.



As far your comment about what i can't afford. Here it is.

Displacement is one of many considerations for my evaluation of an engine. It is a contradiction in your own mind. Have fun with it.

In my mind's eye, the ISF engine is a slow revving boat anchor

On the afforability, yes I can see how you would infer I was making a personal comment on your finances. That was not the intent, it was meant to be in third person.

So now that I apologized for erringly commenting on your finances, can we agree the ISF engine is a boat anchor?
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2008, 01:29 PM   #42
burrito007
Private First Class
2
Rep
164
Posts

 
Drives: e46 M3
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

we seriously need another option here

5. Because we bitched.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2008, 01:29 PM   #43
gbb357
Captain
24
Rep
707
Posts

 
Drives: IS300
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
Displacement is one of many considerations for my evaluation of an engine. It is a contradiction in your own mind. Have fun with it.

In my mind's eye, the ISF engine is a slow revving boat anchor

On the afforability, yes I can see how you would infer I was making a personal comment on your finances. That was not the intent, it was meant to be in third person.

So now that I apologized for erringly commenting on your finances, can we agree the ISF engine is a boat anchor?
I'm just going buy on what you said, you don't like the ISF engine and criticize Lexus for using a big displacement engine, yet you praise the 7.0 from the Z06. How is that not a contradiction.

Let me help you out Tbone, here's the definition.
Quote:
Contradiction means, a situation in which inherent factors, actions, or propositions that are inconsistent or contrary to one another
Please define a "boat anchor" engine. In this case what qualifies the ISF engine to be a "boat anchor". In other words give me some spec and comparison with another engine that is not a "boat anchor". But with specs like weight and power. You still have'nt explain yourself with your logic that applies to the Aston Martins engines. I'm really interested how you can explain that logic of yours in regards to Aston Martins engines that are borrowed engines from Ford and they are two 3.0 liter V6 engines mated together. And you consider them weak and non-stellar.

Last edited by gbb357; 01-16-2008 at 03:20 PM.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2008, 01:32 PM   #44
burrito007
Private First Class
2
Rep
164
Posts

 
Drives: e46 M3
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:

BTW, this statement of yours completely contradicts of what you've been criticizing the ISF engine is about. The Z06 is 6.2L with 500hp. The M6's 5.0 V10 is 500hp and the M6 is almost 4000lbs. Would you criticize the M6 the samy way?
hell yeah that thing is heavy, ugly, and overpriced.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:49 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST