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      01-26-2006, 10:15 AM   #67
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thank you so incredibly much for that, I LOVE that clip!!!
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      01-26-2006, 11:43 AM   #68
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Haha and the Kings continues to go downhill, Ron Artest for Peja?! Signs of desperation. Pacers are laughing their asses off right now. As soon as they signed the deal, Rick Carlisle probably jumped up and yelled "Sucka!!!"

Vince Carter talked shiet about Kobe's game and karma got him. He was being a SUPER team player and being an example to alllll the kids last night. 3 points! Thats REALLY unselfish, oh wait, but they lost, by 13!!! This season is just getting better and better!
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      01-26-2006, 11:54 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kobechrome
Why don't you read thru the thread again? .
I did read the thread again and not to my surprise, it was you who mentioned this: "Most NBA players cheat, Kobe got caught. Was it morally wrong - of course. But as someone mentioned before - Jordan cheated on his wife too... "

Now, what would be the reason to mention "most NBA players cheat"? Do we give the slightest damn, or are you simply trying to defend Kobe's actions as acceptable because hey, everybody else is doing it - he just got caught...so what?
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      01-26-2006, 12:06 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squawks
I did read the thread again and not to my surprise, it was you who mentioned this: "Most NBA players cheat, Kobe got caught. Was it morally wrong - of course. But as someone mentioned before - Jordan cheated on his wife too... "

Now, what would be the reason to mention "most NBA players cheat"? Do we give the slightest damn, or are you simply trying to defend Kobe's actions as acceptable because hey, everybody else is doing it - he just got caught...so what?
Because most people on this thread is denouncing his performance in the game of basektball base on the stuff he did in his personal life. Voting for a player into the All-Star team is purely based on his performance, and not by who he sleeps with. And if was me who said it, not him.

Anyways, I've had enough disussion about whether Kobe is a great basketball player based on this personal life, for those of you who actually likes watching basketball, I will again, urge you to watch this game. The fact is regardless of who the player is, if you enjoy basketball, you will enjoy this game. If you don't enjoy watching basketball, I'm not sure why we're having this discussion in the first place then.
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      01-26-2006, 12:57 PM   #71
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I do enjoy watching basketball and always have. I never said anything about Kobe not being a good player - I'm just talking trash about his character. While others are bashing his performance saying he's a ballhog and whatnot, great performance by a suspected rapist just doesn't appeal to me as great performance by a chivalrous role model.

I just find his character quite flawed, analogous to why quite a few folks think Terrel Owens is a bit flawed despite being a good wide receiver. Kobe's egotistic, a suspected rapist, arrogant, and a good basketball player. Period.
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      01-26-2006, 01:16 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squawks
I did read the thread again and not to my surprise, it was you who mentioned this: "Most NBA players cheat, Kobe got caught. Was it morally wrong - of course. But as someone mentioned before - Jordan cheated on his wife too... "

Now, what would be the reason to mention "most NBA players cheat"? Do we give the slightest damn, or are you simply trying to defend Kobe's actions as acceptable because hey, everybody else is doing it - he just got caught...so what?
Huh?

I clearly said what Kobe did was morally wrong - how is that interpreted as me saying that cheating is ok? You apparently really did not read the thread.

I'm not defending Kobe's actions as acceptable - they are not. I made the point of other NBA players because Kobe is treated differently by the public for the exact same actions. Jordan cheated - and he's celebrated. Kobe cheated and he's denigrated. Both ppl are wrong. (Make sure you read that last sentence carefully - I have now made the same point in 2 different threads so hopefully you'll get it )
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      01-26-2006, 01:29 PM   #73
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Yes, and you also mentioned that other NBA players cheat. Where is the validity, if any, in that comment? There's absolutely no point in mentioning that unless you intended it as defense for Kobe, in which it is CLEAR that's the purpose of that statement. Are you trying to blame my reading to cover up your own writing? Psh.

Secondly, Jordan cheated? Yeah, ok, but was he suspected of rape? Nope. Like I mentioned already (if you read the whole thread), being suspected of rape (compounded on cheating) is on a completely different level than simply being caught cheating. Now if Jordan was suspected of rape, would he still be treated differently from how Kobe is being treated? Of course not. Poor, poor analogy.
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      01-26-2006, 01:32 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squawks
I do enjoy watching basketball and always have. I never said anything about Kobe not being a good player - I'm just talking trash about his character. While others are bashing his performance saying he's a ballhog and whatnot, great performance by a suspected rapist just doesn't appeal to me as great performance by a chivalrous role model.

I just find his character quite flawed, analogous to why quite a few folks think Terrel Owens is a bit flawed despite being a good wide receiver. Kobe's egotistic, a suspected rapist, arrogant, and a good basketball player. Period.
That's understandable of course, but you should still watch the game. It was a game of great performance, and really all the ballhogging/selfish talk does not pertain to this game at all. I would pay a lot to be able to own a copy of the game Wilt scored 100 in, afterall, its NBA history. Unfortunately they didn't record the game back then.

A lot of great players are egotistic and arrogant. Greatness and arrogance comes hand in hand, and only a few people are great and yet truely humble. I personally thought Jordan was extremely arrogant and I rooted against him simply because I'm a lakers fan. However, I don't deny how great of a player he is and I don't let the fact that he cheated on his wife play a factor. Morally I think that's very wrong, and personally I never have, and never will cheat on my gf/wife. However, I'm watching him as a basketball player, and that's all.

The game of 81 pts is a moment of greatness in sports history, to have people bring out things that does not pertain to try to defame that accomplishment is just sad.
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      01-26-2006, 01:42 PM   #75
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I watched the game. It almost feels like watching a movie where the villain is winning over the good guys. If you respect athletes purely for their athleticism, then that's alright - for me (and quite a few other folks out there), the character plays an important role in admiration.

I used to like Michael Jackson but after all his freakish mishaps, I'm straying away from his music. So has the rest of the world - while he's still got talent, it was his character that brought about his demise.
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      01-26-2006, 01:45 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squawks
Yes, and you also mentioned that other NBA players cheat. Where is the validity, if any, in that comment? There's absolutely no point in mentioning that unless you intended it as defense for Kobe, in which it is CLEAR that's the purpose of that statement. Are you trying to blame my reading to cover up your own writing? Psh.

Secondly, Jordan cheated? Yeah, ok, but was he suspected of rape? Nope. Like I mentioned already (if you read the whole thread), being suspected of rape (compounded on cheating) is on a completely different level than simply being caught cheating. Now if Jordan was suspected of rape, would he still be treated differently from how Kobe is being treated? Of course not. Poor, poor analogy.
Cmon now, let's not be naive here. We all know the media has been getting worse and worse on digging into celebrities' life. Do you really believe that all these random women NBA players sleeps with, not one will try to cash in? Do you really believe this is the only woman that ever try to file rape against a sports player? Or could it be that this is just one of the cases that leaked out and was brought under the microscope. In addition, you do realize this woman was not all the stable in her mental state. The semen sample the police took contained how many other men's?
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      01-26-2006, 01:46 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squawks
I watched the game. It almost feels like watching a movie where the villain is winning over the good guys. If you respect athletes purely for their athleticism, then that's alright - for me (and quite a few other folks out there), the character plays an important role in admiration.

I used to like Michael Jackson but after all his freakish mishaps, I'm straying away from his music. So has the rest of the world - while he's still got talent, it was his character that brought about his demise.
And a formidable villain is what makes the movie. And in a movie, when the villain pours his heart out to win over the good guys, you gain respect for the villain too.

Ya but I bet you still do the moon walk from time to time when no one's lookn
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      01-26-2006, 01:48 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squawks
Yes, and you also mentioned that other NBA players cheat. Where is the validity, if any, in that comment? There's absolutely no point in mentioning that unless you intended it as defense for Kobe, in which it is CLEAR that's the purpose of that statement. Are you trying to blame my reading to cover up your own writing? Psh.

Secondly, Jordan cheated? Yeah, ok, but was he suspected of rape? Nope. Like I mentioned already (if you read the whole thread), being suspected of rape (compounded on cheating) is on a completely different level than simply being caught cheating. Now if Jordan was suspected of rape, would he still be treated differently from how Kobe is being treated? Of course not. Poor, poor analogy.
I'm not blaming anyone to cover up anything. I already explained that I thought what Kobe did was wrong and why I mentioned Jordan. Don't twist the words - MJ and Kobe both did wrong but are treated differently for it.

Kobe's rape trial was dropped because the woman didn't want to testify and wanted to settle with $$ in a civil suit. This makes it very apparent that she was a gold digger. If Jordan were in the same situation, he would've been forgiven much sooner and easier than Kobe. Even before the alleged rape, Kobe was already treated with disdain.
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      01-26-2006, 01:53 PM   #79
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Before the rape, Kobe was already treated with disdain? How so? Please elucidate - was it his character, I'm assuming?

She dropped the trial because she was afraid. Or maybe she was going to lose. Or maybe it was Kobe who didn't want to go to trial and instead paid her an undisclosed sum, similar to how Michael Jackson prevented a trial by an undisclosed settlement (now known to be in the millions) for a boy he was suspected of molesting.

Doesn't it make you think why Kobe would agree to a settlement? Was he afaid of a conviction? If he knew he was innocent and there was insufficient evidence, why not just go to trial and refuse settling?
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      01-26-2006, 02:08 PM   #80
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So all those frivolous law suits people file against large companies, where the large companies decides to settle out of court, it means they are automatically admitting guilt. It has absolutely nothing to do with them not wanting bad publicity? Glad to see our society has turned into one where one's guilty until proven innocent.
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      01-26-2006, 03:13 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by timzerofive
So all those frivolous law suits people file against large companies, where the large companies decides to settle out of court, it means they are automatically admitting guilt. It has absolutely nothing to do with them not wanting bad publicity? Glad to see our society has turned into one where one's guilty until proven innocent.
That's well put. Settling isn't admitting guilt by an stretch of the imagination. Ppl know that also and take advantage of it.

Kobe was treated with disdain before already because everyone assumed he broke up the Lakers - thought he was a ballhog, was arrogant, cocky, etc. Truth is - is that he's an extremely dedicated, intense and competitive athlete who's misunderstood. He wants to win as badly as the any other person in the league.

Either way, those who already dislike or hate him always will so this thread is becoming useless.
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      01-26-2006, 03:26 PM   #82
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Yup - a settlement is worst than an acquittal or, actually, a 'win' in court. In fact, it's almost admitting guilt - why pay for something you truly think you're innocent?

In regards to companies - most of them actually fight lawsuits, if you're in such matters; and those companies which are not 100% guilt-free are obviously more prone to settling out-of-court, knowing their chances and cost of litigation.

I suppose Merck should settle all their Vioxx suits. And Wendy should've settled the finger-in-the-chili suit before any investigation began. Oh, yeah - the LA hotel where one individual is suing for 5 million should just settle for hmmm, pocket change of 2.5 million because he was bit by bed bugs in his room. Trust me, all these "frivolous" law suits aren't settled out of court unless there's compelling evidence against the company and they simply don't want to lose in court...which could be Kobe's case.

Guilty until proven innocent - wow, you finally caught on? Welcome to today's justice system. Look at the detainment of terrorist suspects. Come on now. This is the 21st century where Bush is reigning.
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      01-26-2006, 03:32 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squawks
Yup - a settlement is worst than an acquittal or, actually, a 'win' in court. In fact, it's almost admitting guilt - why pay for something you truly think you're innocent?

In regards to companies - most of them actually fight lawsuits, if you're in such matters; and those companies which are not 100% guilt-free are obviously more prone to settling out-of-court, knowing their chances and cost of litigation.

I suppose Merck should settle all their Vioxx suits. And Wendy should've settled the finger-in-the-chili suit before any investigation began. Oh, yeah - the LA hotel where one individual is suing for 5 million should just settle for hmmm, pocket change of 2.5 million because he was bit by bed bugs in his room. Trust me, all these "frivolous" law suits aren't settled out of court unless there's compelling evidence against the company and they simply don't want to lose in court...which could be Kobe's case.

Guilty until proven innocent - wow, you finally caught on? Welcome to today's justice system. Look at the detainment of terrorist suspects. Come on now. This is the 21st century where Bush is reigning.
If you want to put it that way... then you can look at it from the other point of view.
A girl who filed a suit and claimed it wasn't about the money took a monetary settlement... I wonder why. Afraid of her life? Or afraid her lies will not hold up in court.

So Kobe's a terrorist now? Wow~
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      01-26-2006, 03:34 PM   #84
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Yeah, a terrorist among women. Especially women who work at resorts.

EDIT: Well, what if Kobe offered her something in the millions? I'd take that. Anybody would. Who cares about convicting him. And why would he settle if he thinks he's innocent? Not like his reputation hasn't already been damaged.
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      01-26-2006, 03:37 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Squawks
Yeah, a terrorist among women. Especially women who work at resorts.
Terrorist to women who works at resorts who's willing to (at the very least) flirt and make out with a known-to-be-married NBA star, and also who slept with other men the same day either prior to or after her sleeping with the NBA star.
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      01-26-2006, 03:39 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squawks
Yeah, a terrorist among women. Especially women who work at resorts.

EDIT: Well, what if Kobe offered her something in the millions? I'd take that. Anybody would. Who cares about convicting him. And why would he settle if he thinks he's innocent? Not like his reputation hasn't already been damaged.
If she was out for justice and not money, then why would she. She didn't get her justice. Anybody would? I wouldn't. If someone murdered someone close to me, I wouldn't drop the law suit simply because he was going to pay me millions.

Why would he settle? Perhaps he feels overwhelmed having to split his presence between 2 "courts". Perhaps he feels like him and his wife has been put in the spotlight for too long and no longer wants that. Anybody would if they have the money.
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      01-26-2006, 03:43 PM   #87
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Yeah but this wasn't murder. It was a good fuck for Kobe and questionablly for her. To some, justice is served via compensation. Same thing goes with Michael Jackson's multimillion dollar settlement with that little kid. Justice has been served. Via Benjamin Franklins.

EDIT: People don't sue or go to trial mainly to put the other party behind bars. It's all about the bling. I'm sure the Vioxx victims are purely sueing to have the clinicians behind bars - oh yeah, that's why they're sueing.
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      01-26-2006, 03:55 PM   #88
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This is getting off-topic. Either vote Kobe for the all-star team or don't.

There's no use in arguing about this 2 yr old case. The facts are that the woman dropped the suit and settled. Why she did it - we can only speculate. But we obviously have our opinions.

Squawks - we know you have an extreme dislike for Kobe. You are also right - for some justice is served via compensation. For others, they sued wrongly just to make some $$. In the end, who cares? The case is over and whatever damage has already been done.

None of that affects his skills as a basketball player or his talent on the court. He's going to get voted in for his basketball skills not for his moral fiber.
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