BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General Automotive (non-BMW) Talk + Photos/Videos
 
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-10-2008, 12:24 PM   #23
AWD Addict
Chief Executive
 
AWD Addict's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 335xi 6spd Coupe
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Boston

Posts: 2,462
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2008 335xi  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnage View Post
Not likely, the GTR is running the same times as a Z06 (11.6 vs. 11.7), GM is already stating that because of traction, the 0-60 times aren't going to be alot different but in the 1/4, 0-100, top speed etc. the ZR1 is going to be much faster then the Z06. What does all that mean?? It means the ZR1 is going to rip the GTR a new asshole. Look for it to run equal 0-60 times but be a full second faster in the 1/4.
A FULL SECOND?!



AWD Addict is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-10-2008, 12:29 PM   #24
AWD Addict
Chief Executive
 
AWD Addict's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 335xi 6spd Coupe
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Boston

Posts: 2,462
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2008 335xi  [0.00]
Typically, AWD cars show a 20% driveline loss. That means a dyno'd 500awhp car would equal something like 620 crank HP. Of course this is a swag figure, but give or take 5% (dynapack) we're in the same ballpark here.

I think these cars make very similar power, one just throws it over 4 wheels, one over 2.

GTR wins by 2 lengths and a partridge in a pear tree.
AWD Addict is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-10-2008, 04:07 PM   #25
Driver72
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 335i - to new owners now.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: California

Posts: 4,485
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD Addict View Post
Typically, AWD cars show a 20% driveline loss. That means a dyno'd 500awhp car would equal something like 620 crank HP. Of course this is a swag figure, but give or take 5% (dynapack) we're in the same ballpark here.

I think these cars make very similar power, one just throws it over 4 wheels, one over 2.

GTR wins by 2 lengths and a partridge in a pear tree.
Guys, did you see the dyno slip from that 501 hp run?
Do you know that is to the WHEELS?

The article says, "501 flywheel hp"

How do you know they did do a stock run, see what it got and then did the math from 480 flywheel hp to figure out the drivetrain loss.
Then redyno the car with the aftermarket exhaust and use the same % to get the 501 hp figure.

They clearly state in the article that the exhaust gave them about 20 hp.
Nowhere does it say that the car MADE 501 hp to the WHEELS.
They did the math to calculate what the drivetrain loss was and then figured the flywheel hp from there.

The GT-R "may" be underrated by a bit, but no by 100+ hp....come on now! I'd guess maybe 20-30 hp.

In an Edmunds run with the GT-R and Porsche 997 TT up to speeds around 180 mph, the GT-R could not outrun the Porsche.
In fact, they state the Porsche was on it's bumper the whole time, 'like it was impatient and wanting to pass'.

Then they did a rolling run with the cars, communicating via radio so they both nailed it at "go" and they stated the Porsche 997TT was ever so slowly pulling away.

Well, a ZO6 will pull away from the 997TT by a decent amount up to speeds above 150 mph.

So what does that tell you the results with the ZO6 vs GT-R will be??
Driver72 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-10-2008, 06:27 PM   #26
AWD Addict
Chief Executive
 
AWD Addict's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 335xi 6spd Coupe
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Boston

Posts: 2,462
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2008 335xi  [0.00]
confusion eliminated

Okay, here is a stock dyno run of a different car (on a dynapack as well)

482ps is roughly 475hp peak. 59.2kg/m is about 430ft lbs of torque. This is also consistant with the 20awhp gain the OP's article stated was acheived from the exhaust.

Given the only "break" this car was getting from a load standpoint was the unsprung wheel weight, I'd say 15% driveline loss is a fair estimate. That computes to roughly 575hp a the crank. 20%, which could very likely be accurate depending on how light the tires/wheels are, would put them at a dead heat power wise.

Also, edmunds tested this at 3.3 seconds to 60. It ran an 11.6 1/4 mile with a 120 trap. That said, the hp being so close (within 5% of the ZR1) and with the benefits of AWD included, the Nissan should still win handedly given comparable drivers.


Here are some cool vids of the car in action at speed. I'm lickin it a lot.
http://www.gtchannel.com/content.php?cid=11984
Attached Images
  
AWD Addict is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-10-2008, 07:49 PM   #27
e92OMG
Private First Class
 
e92OMG's Avatar
 
Drives: soon to be 08 M3
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: central florida

Posts: 136
iTrader: (0)

wait o.o i heard somehwere that if you mod a gt r it will be reported to the dealer ship and will not start if you change anything i think you can change the rims at best and only certain peaple will be give nthe right to mod there gt r!!!! look it up please and prove me wrong lol cuz that is saaaaaaaaaad if its true *some kid did a report on it for midterms lol*
e92OMG is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-10-2008, 08:28 PM   #28
gbb357
Captain
 
Drives: IS300
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New York

Posts: 707
iTrader: (0)

This particular dyno test might be bogus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD Addict View Post
Okay, here is a stock dyno run of a different car (on a dynapack as well)

482ps is roughly 475hp peak. 59.2kg/m is about 430ft lbs of torque. This is also consistant with the 20awhp gain the OP's article stated was acheived from the exhaust.

Given the only "break" this car was getting from a load standpoint was the unsprung wheel weight, I'd say 15% driveline loss is a fair estimate. That computes to roughly 575hp a the crank. 20%, which could very likely be accurate depending on how light the tires/wheels are, would put them at a dead heat power wise.

Also, edmunds tested this at 3.3 seconds to 60. It ran an 11.6 1/4 mile with a 120 trap. That said, the hp being so close (within 5% of the ZR1) and with the benefits of AWD included, the Nissan should still win handedly given comparable drivers.


Here are some cool vids of the car in action at speed. I'm lickin it a lot.
http://www.gtchannel.com/content.php?cid=11984
As soon as SAE certifies the GTR's power rating, that would make it the valid rating. SAE is very strict with ratings these days and every company has to comply and pass with an independent witness and observer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtPE
the dyno is bogus...can't be real
HP does not = T at 5250

I know how they rigged it...
use the given speeds/rpm to calculate the ratio...I did...
3rd 1.595 x 3.7 = 5.9
4th 1.248 x 3.7 = 4.62 (they used 4.66, close)
tire OD = 2.33'
circ 7.33'

it's works out to 5.475...NOT the 4.66 that they used...
no such ratio unless the car has a 3.5th gear
they measure wheel T and divide by the ratio...I've conversed with dynapack...
by doing this they have fudged the numbers by 17.5%...hmmmm, that's a good driveline loss factor...

all times are proffered by Nissan, Japanese journalists with connections, on Japanese tracks, control, etc.
no...SAE has a very strict regime...it's why the Japanese mfgs have a hard time meeting them and have to re-rate their cars...
SAE HP is rated at the flywheel w/accesories...power steering, alternator, etc.


I'm sure it makes the 480HP/430 lb-ft, but at the CRANK, NOT at the wheels

Nissan themselves has said it only makes 473 SAE and will need to be tweeked to be rated 480 SAE in the states...
Check this thread for the rest of the discussion.http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...101514&page=10
gbb357 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-10-2008, 08:42 PM   #29
hotrod2448
grand poobah
 
hotrod2448's Avatar
 
Drives: E70 X5 SG, F10 535i
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC

Posts: 2,014
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 335d  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by e92OMG View Post
wait o.o i heard somehwere that if you mod a gt r it will be reported to the dealer ship and will not start if you change anything i think you can change the rims at best and only certain peaple will be give nthe right to mod there gt r!!!! look it up please and prove me wrong lol cuz that is saaaaaaaaaad if its true *some kid did a report on it for midterms lol*


They can't stop you from modding a car. It's yours. They can void your warranty for it but, I don't see how they could make it inoperable for mods.
hotrod2448 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-12-2008, 06:09 PM   #30
OBI_agent
D to the X to the B!
 
OBI_agent's Avatar
 
Drives: ABS,American bargain supercar
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Dubai

Posts: 2,094
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by e92OMG View Post
wait o.o i heard somehwere that if you mod a gt r it will be reported to the dealer ship and will not start if you change anything i think you can change the rims at best and only certain peaple will be give nthe right to mod there gt r!!!! look it up please and prove me wrong lol cuz that is saaaaaaaaaad if its true *some kid did a report on it for midterms lol*
What the....!!! Tell that kid to present the report!
OBI_agent is offline   United Arab Emirates
0
Reply With Quote
      01-12-2008, 06:25 PM   #31
hotrod2448
grand poobah
 
hotrod2448's Avatar
 
Drives: E70 X5 SG, F10 535i
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC

Posts: 2,014
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 335d  [0.00]
I really wouldn't be surprised for exhausts to make big gains on that car. On my Evo forum there was a pic of the exhaust and the stock one is seriously choked down.
hotrod2448 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-13-2008, 11:47 AM   #32
AWD Addict
Chief Executive
 
AWD Addict's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 335xi 6spd Coupe
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Boston

Posts: 2,462
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2008 335xi  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbb357 View Post
As soon as SAE certifies the GTR's power rating, that would make it the valid rating. SAE is very strict with ratings these days and every company has to comply and pass with an independent witness and observer.



Check this thread for the rest of the discussion.http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...101514&page=10
That's all fine and dandy, but there's no funny business on the charts I posted (which are different than the OP's links). Those are legit dynapack figures...

Obviously, I'm taking some swag guesses at losses, but give or take, I'm probably not too far off.
AWD Addict is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-13-2008, 12:09 PM   #33
gbb357
Captain
 
Drives: IS300
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New York

Posts: 707
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD Addict View Post
That's all fine and dandy, but there's no funny business on the charts I posted (which are different than the OP's links). Those are legit dynapack figures...

Obviously, I'm taking some swag guesses at losses, but give or take, I'm probably not too far off.

Check post #29. Member ARtpe is claiming that the charts and graphs you posted are bogus. It's the exact dyno test article that We have discussed already in the link that i posted, but the original link from Minkara does not work anymore. http://minkara.carview.co.jp/userid/.../blog/c227132/
gbb357 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-13-2008, 12:12 PM   #34
AWD Addict
Chief Executive
 
AWD Addict's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 335xi 6spd Coupe
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Boston

Posts: 2,462
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2008 335xi  [0.00]
I'm saying the charts I posted arent' the same car. This one is a different color (check out the pics) and has a different (I'm presuming stock) exhaust.
AWD Addict is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-13-2008, 12:16 PM   #35
gbb357
Captain
 
Drives: IS300
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New York

Posts: 707
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD Addict View Post
I'm saying the charts I posted arent' the same car. This one is a different color (check out the pics) and has a different (I'm presuming stock) exhaust.
Yes i understand, the one in this thread is from Mines, the one that you've posted is from a private owner and it was also in the NAGTROC website.
gbb357 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-14-2008, 11:59 AM   #36
Driver72
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 335i - to new owners now.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: California

Posts: 4,485
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD Addict View Post

Also, edmunds tested this at 3.3 seconds to 60. It ran an 11.6 1/4 mile with a 120 trap. That said, the hp being so close (within 5% of the ZR1) and with the benefits of AWD included, the Nissan should still win handedly given comparable drivers.


Here are some cool vids of the car in action at speed. I'm lickin it a lot.

Edmunds and you are dreaming if they (and you) think the ZR-1 will only do a 1/4 mile in 11.6 @ 120 mph.

Again, don't get me wrong the GT-R is a fast car, and I might even get one since I have a contact who can get me one for around MSRP.

However, a STOCK ZO6 can do the 1/4 in the low 11's @ 125+ mph, handlily beating the GT-R's 11.6 @ 120 mph time so far.

The ZR-1 will be quite a bit faster than that. Easily a high 10's @ 128+ mph car with a good driver.

Edmunds doesn't have good drivers. Their times are often much slower in FWD or RWD cars as they don't seem to be able to launch them well.
It's easy to launch an AWD car, especially one with launch control like the GT-R, so their 11.6 @ 120 mph time will be consistent since it takes ZERO skill to get that time.

The fact they couldn't get a better time with a ZO6 but every other car magazine, and every ZO6 owner on dragtimes has, well that tells you they can't launch or drive the ZO6 worth a darn.

And again, rest assured the GT-R will not have 575 hp but be rated at 480.
That's silly to think so.
Otherwise it would of walked a Porsche 911 TT from a roll, when in fact, Edmunds themselves admitted it was the Porsche that ever so slowly pulled on the GT-R.
I'm sure the GT-R is underrated by a bit (20-30 hp) but it seems common these days for manufacturers to under rate some of their cars.

BTW, in most of the AWD cars I've dynoed or seen dynoed.
Drivetrain loss is closer to 22% (on a dynojet at least).
Driver72 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2008, 02:54 AM   #37
Ryan@Motorwerks
Captain
 
Ryan@Motorwerks's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i Coupe
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Houston, TX

Posts: 941
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wj4 View Post
Realistically I can not see more than a full second shaved off from the 1/4 time, with moderate modding.
Well a 10 second quarter mile with moderate mods doesn't sound too bad
Ryan@Motorwerks is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2008, 10:52 AM   #38
sdiver68
Expert Road Racer
 
Drives: 07 335i e90, 09 335i e93
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 1,330
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver72 View Post
Edmunds doesn't have good drivers.
Here's the rub. Edmunds most likely does have some good drivers, just not great drag strip drivers. Probably very typical of the better drivers who own the car...other than the pure drag nuts.

So, imho, in real life, the GT-R will beat the Z06 9.8 times out of 10. And the ZR-1, from a dig, maybe 5 times out of 10.

The ZR-1 should run away at higher speed roll-ons...the Z06 would be close imho.
sdiver68 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2008, 10:55 AM   #39
sdiver68
Expert Road Racer
 
Drives: 07 335i e90, 09 335i e93
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 1,330
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbb357 View Post
Check post #29. Member ARtpe is claiming that the charts and graphs you posted are bogus. It's the exact dyno test article that We have discussed already in the link that i posted, but the original link from Minkara does not work anymore. http://minkara.carview.co.jp/userid/.../blog/c227132/
Artpe is wrong.
sdiver68 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2008, 11:18 AM   #40
gbb357
Captain
 
Drives: IS300
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New York

Posts: 707
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdiver68 View Post
Artpe is wrong.
I've already responded on your post on the other thread about this. I think you're right.
gbb357 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2008, 02:19 PM   #41
///AFRO
Stage 1 Juice Box - Boosted'
 
///AFRO's Avatar
 
Drives: 07 AW E92-335i TT
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SoCal

Posts: 1,522
iTrader: (0)

ZR1 is not a stock car. Its modified, duh
__________________

2007 335i -Coupe Alpine White
Mods: JB1 | Exposed Intercooler | Black Grills/Emblems | Golf-Tee Mod | Reflectors | 35% Tints
Next: Aero-Lip | H&R Race Srings | Dual Cone Intake | Straight-Pipes
Soon: 2006 ///M3 Coupe Imola Red - [CSL Project]
///AFRO is offline   Armenia
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2008, 02:26 PM   #42
lyndon_h
Lieutenant Colonel
 
lyndon_h's Avatar
 
Drives: e90
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Madagascar

Posts: 1,920
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AFRO View Post
ZR1 is not a stock car. Its modified, duh
HUH???
lyndon_h is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2008, 02:28 PM   #43
lyndon_h
Lieutenant Colonel
 
lyndon_h's Avatar
 
Drives: e90
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Madagascar

Posts: 1,920
iTrader: (2)

The ZR1 should be quite a bit faster than the GTR stock for stock. The ZR1 is said to have tires that were produced particularly for it. I'm expecting a 0-60 of 3.2seconds (the Z06 does it in 3.7) and a 1/4 in 10.7seconds.
lyndon_h is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-28-2008, 11:01 PM   #44
gfrnk69
Private
 
gfrnk69's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i Sedan 6AT
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 82
iTrader: (0)

Now to be fair, some of the gtr fanboys are stating the gtr made x amount of hp with just exhaust, you have to compare the two cars stock vs stock or modded vs modded. Non of this through on I/H/E/ldfjal bs on 1 car.

The Zr1 is seriously in a different league over the gtr. Sorry fellas
__________________
2007 335i Titanium Silver E90 / PP / SP / JBS2 /
gfrnk69 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:09 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST