BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > M3 vs....
 
BPM Sport
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-15-2008, 04:20 PM   #111
spearfisher
Lieutenant
 
spearfisher's Avatar
 
Drives: C6 ZO6
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: FL

Posts: 409
iTrader: (0)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordsch...test_lap_times

Read
C5 ZO6 7:56
C6 7:59

Enough said, if you track your car, and on the same track as a C6 you'll get dusted. Argument over.

never mind, you don't have a E46 M3 or a E92 M3, so if I see you on a solo 1 track, I'll actually dust you in a Subaru.

Last edited by spearfisher; 02-15-2008 at 04:39 PM.
spearfisher is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-15-2008, 05:00 PM   #112
Krueger///M3
Major
 
Krueger///M3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2003 HPF 2.5, 2008 M3 (Sold)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Pearl District, OR

Posts: 1,401
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2002 BMW ///M3  [0.00]
2008 BMW ///M3  [0.00]
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by spearfisher View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordsch...test_lap_times

Read
C5 ZO6 7:56
C6 7:59

Enough said, if you track your car, and on the same track as a C6 you'll get dusted. Argument over.

never mind, you don't have a E46 M3 or a E92 M3, so if I see you on a solo 1 track, I'll actually dust you in a Subaru.

Wow, getting offensive here. Is this a corvette fan site or an M3 site?
Krueger///M3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-15-2008, 05:03 PM   #113
Krueger///M3
Major
 
Krueger///M3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2003 HPF 2.5, 2008 M3 (Sold)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Pearl District, OR

Posts: 1,401
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2002 BMW ///M3  [0.00]
2008 BMW ///M3  [0.00]
The E36 is a great car and everyone on this site should respect that.
Krueger///M3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-15-2008, 05:36 PM   #114
spearfisher
Lieutenant
 
spearfisher's Avatar
 
Drives: C6 ZO6
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: FL

Posts: 409
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krueger///M3 View Post
The E36 is a great car and everyone on this site should respect that.


read all my posts, I respect all cars, I don't bash cars, unlike some people.

besides, I state the facts, just like hey I'll admit a 997 turbo will dust me, so will an F430.
STI won't dust a E36??
spearfisher is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-15-2008, 06:28 PM   #115
spearfisher
Lieutenant
 
spearfisher's Avatar
 
Drives: C6 ZO6
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: FL

Posts: 409
iTrader: (0)

I thought it was a Honda site
spearfisher is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-15-2008, 07:31 PM   #116
NavNurs
First Lieutenant
 
NavNurs's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 / S2000 beater
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego

Posts: 308
iTrader: (0)

Does anyone know what the ring time is for a C6 with 3 bitches and a keg-o-beer?
NavNurs is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-15-2008, 07:47 PM   #117
sayemthree
Brigadier General
 
sayemthree's Avatar
 
Drives: bmw
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: usa

Posts: 4,845
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NavNurs View Post
Does anyone know what the ring time is for a C6 with 3 bitches and a keg-o-beer?

Exactly my point!!!!! well not exactly.... In my case its three schools girls and thier backpacks full of school books.

sayemthree is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-15-2008, 10:00 PM   #118
spearfisher
Lieutenant
 
spearfisher's Avatar
 
Drives: C6 ZO6
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: FL

Posts: 409
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NavNurs View Post
Does anyone know what the ring time is for a C6 with 3 bitches and a keg-o-beer?


now that's funny, good way to lighten the thread

I think I only have room for the 3 bitches
spearfisher is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-15-2008, 10:08 PM   #119
Krueger///M3
Major
 
Krueger///M3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2003 HPF 2.5, 2008 M3 (Sold)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Pearl District, OR

Posts: 1,401
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2002 BMW ///M3  [0.00]
2008 BMW ///M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by spearfisher View Post
read all my posts, I respect all cars, I don't bash cars, unlike some people.

besides, I state the facts, just like hey I'll admit a 997 turbo will dust me, so will an F430.
STI won't dust a E36??

I agree, the STI is a great value for a cool fast car.
Krueger///M3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-16-2008, 11:14 AM   #120
sayemthree
Brigadier General
 
sayemthree's Avatar
 
Drives: bmw
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: usa

Posts: 4,845
iTrader: (0)

Road and Track Road Test Summary
March 2008, pg. 98

test ------- 2008 M3 (414 hp) -------2008 C6 (436hp)
0-60 --------- 4.1 --------------------4.3
0-100 -------- 9.4 ---------------------9.5
1/4 mi-------12.5@114.8--------------12.6@115.7
top speed ------161 (lim) ---------------190
60-0 -----------112---------------------119
80-0 ----------- 197 --------------------212
skidpad --------- 0.99 -------------------0.93
slalom -----------71.4--------------------69.2
mpg -------------15 (est)----------------16.1

Just the facts boys.....just the facts.
sayemthree is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-16-2008, 01:59 PM   #121
bruce.augenstein@comcast.
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: Legacy GT - 13.704@99.39
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Manheim, PA

Posts: 1,896
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sayemthree View Post
Road and Track Road Test Summary
March 2008, pg. 98

test ------- 2008 M3 (414 hp) -------2008 C6 (436hp)
0-60 --------- 4.1 --------------------4.3
0-100 -------- 9.4 ---------------------9.5
1/4 mi-------12.5@114.8--------------12.6@115.7
top speed ------161 (lim) ---------------190
60-0 -----------112---------------------119
80-0 ----------- 197 --------------------212
skidpad --------- 0.99 -------------------0.93
slalom -----------71.4--------------------69.2
mpg -------------15 (est)----------------16.1

Just the facts boys.....just the facts.
Yeah, just the facts. Perhaps you've forgotten about the other facts found in note 88 in this string?

Bruce
bruce.augenstein@comcast. is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-16-2008, 02:29 PM   #122
!Xoible
Banned
 
Drives: ....
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: .

Posts: 46,037
iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2008 M3  [3.50]
2007 335i  [4.50]
2008 528i  [4.00]
2006 Infiniti - G35 ...  [4.00]
here are my numbers in Orange County, SoCal

..............M3................C6
...............-------------------
Chicks.......infiniti++ 0
!Xoible is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-16-2008, 08:28 PM   #123
swamp2
Lieutenant General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 10,200
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by malter2.0 View Post
Swamp2,



Oh my god you are thick. Have you ever installed a set of springs on your car? Any car? If all springs provide basic function (can you tell me what function is that?), why don't you install a set of springs from buick park avenue and let us know how the car responds in twisties. Progressive springs not used often? Wow...funny because just about every aftermarket suspension for your car, which happens to be my car too, comes with progressive springs. I have them on my car right now in form of TEIN coilovers. Bilstein PSS9, H&R, TEIN SS coilovers...and few others all come with progressive springs. They feel funny? How is the word funny even used in describing a suspension feel?

Maybe you could write a nice email to technical support and headquarters of industry giants such as Bilstein, H&R, TEIN and tell them It is better to extract any desired non-linearity out of the suspension linkage design.

Leaf springs have their purpose ...in trucking industry. Chevy can make them out of carbon nanotubes for all I care.
No need to start with the insults, really. It does not further your case nor your status.

Whether or not I have installed springs is irrelevant. Just FYI I have, I have replaced the entire main suspension components in my E36 M3 and did all the work myself.

I listed the basic functions of a spring in my initial post on the topic and again stick by those comments 100%.

What you are missing (again with the Buick or carbon nanotube analogy) is the difference between a typical implementation of a given design and a very different, much higher performance implementation. The devil is in the details and what you continue to miss is that a leaf spring can be light, strong and high performance, period. You are simply wrong here, accept it and move along with some new knowledge.

In talking about the lack of progressive springs in the market I was referring mostly to stock suspensions. And if you want a more scientific description of what I meant by "funny" I would say that non-linear springs in general cause a higher deceleration and deceleration derivative ("jerk") in the late stages of travel. What does this mean in real life - not as good of a feel as a linear spring. Sure there are advantages - namely the ability to deal with a larger load range in less travel but the advantages are accompanied by disadvantages as well.
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-16-2008, 08:40 PM   #124
Numb3rs
Banned
 
Drives: Looking
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Terra Ferma

Posts: 610
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by malter2.0 View Post
No, I didn't had to look up direction of leaf springs on the vette. I don't know everything about the vette, but basics I do know. Even without knowing, it is pretty intuitive to figure they wouldn't place leaf springs as they do on a full size Silverado. Anyway...believe what you want.

If the word handling was such subjective term as you perceive it to be, we might as well place F-350 dually as the ultimate handling machine or maybe Ford fusion or any deviation thereof. My M3 rides on 550lb springs and poly bushings. I classify its handling as mediocre at best, certainly not because it will be faster on track than average car, but because handling entails so much more than how fast you go around the track. Level of damping, rebound, braking balance, weight shift and overall optimization is all part of the equation. (E90 325i handles better than E36 M3. It is newer and better optimized design). Taking all this into account M3 is few million light years ahead of vette. It was since E21 generation.

Sure, vette is fast and has tons of grip, but it is infinitely more unstable in the corner if it gets upset, and you better be a master of opposite lock if back end drifts away. Inherent design of leaf springs will always lag behind handling prowess of multi-link rear.

My opinion is that corvette makes up for its lack of better suspension design with more rubber. C6 Z06 carries 275s front and 325/30 series back. Now compare that to NEW M3, 245f/265b. So now you have a lighter car with more rubber. Even if you had truck suspension (which you do heh) you would grip so much more to the point where even mediocre suspension would stop being a bottleneck. Put the same tires on the heavier M3 and see how it would compare on the track. It would be a comical comparison at that point.

I am not discrediting vette for what it is, but for what it is not. I appreciate the car for its intended purpose and for its low budget great performance. Is it a supercar in terms of speed performance? Yes. Is it best bang for the buck in universe? Yes.

There is nothing wrong with old technology. I wouldn't doubt if vette has more durable and sturdier suspension, especially for street. M3s need suspension replacement every 50k to handle like they do. M3 probably has dozen more bushings than a vette, none of which help with durability.
LSX engines aren't even remotely as maintenance needy as I-6 or the new V8. I could go on...but to draw parallels that old technology suspension is equivalent to handling of newer designs is absurd. It works, it is durable, it handles decently, but lets leave it at that.

Swamp2,

Seriously you have not just wrote this:



read up on some of the simple stuff such as progressive springs, which are getting outdated.



...still after everything, i want a big bad american V8 to abuse


^^ That simply might be the best post I have ever read! What a concise and thorough comparison of these two cars and an explanation I highly agree with.
Numb3rs is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-16-2008, 11:56 PM   #125
dmboone25
Major General
 
dmboone25's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 F22 M235i/DUC M1100 EVO
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 5,334
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 E92 328i  [0.00]
2007 328i  [0.00]
I like the comment posted somewhere in the banter that when you think of Corvette, you think of mullets.
__________________
Current - 2014 F22 M235 - MT, CWP, Premium, Aluminum Hex/Black Gloss Trim.
Past BMWs: 2011 E82 135 - LBM, N55, DCT
2008 E82 135 - AW, N54, MT
2007 E92 328 - JB, N52, MT, ZSP (traded in for 135)
2007 E92 328 - JB, N52, MT (retired by a drunk driver)
dmboone25 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-17-2008, 12:06 PM   #126
spearfisher
Lieutenant
 
spearfisher's Avatar
 
Drives: C6 ZO6
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: FL

Posts: 409
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sayemthree View Post
Road and Track Road Test Summary
March 2008, pg. 98

test ------- 2008 M3 (414 hp) -------2008 C6 (436hp)
0-60 --------- 4.1 --------------------4.3
0-100 -------- 9.4 ---------------------9.5
1/4 mi-------12.5@114.8--------------12.6@115.7
top speed ------161 (lim) ---------------190
60-0 -----------112---------------------119
80-0 ----------- 197 --------------------212
skidpad --------- 0.99 -------------------0.93
slalom -----------71.4--------------------69.2
mpg -------------15 (est)----------------16.1

Just the facts boys.....just the facts.

I agree with that, good find
but every mag will have varying times, some in your favor some in mine.
but that said it must be on a level playing feild, I belive the vette was tested in 93 degree weather
BMW in 57 degree weather, that said you will stand by your claims as will I, I think power to weigt ratio will prevail, but I know BMW's always post faster times than tested, perfect example is the 335, great performing car.

I will wait for hard core data, a comparo done by a reliable source, or when I drive one.
I hope to encounter one at Moroso and reserve my final thought then, I think that will really be my deciding factor.
spearfisher is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-17-2008, 12:41 PM   #127
sayemthree
Brigadier General
 
sayemthree's Avatar
 
Drives: bmw
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: usa

Posts: 4,845
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by spearfisher View Post
I agree with that, good find
but every mag will have varying times, some in your favor some in mine.
but that said it must be on a level playing feild, I belive the vette was tested in 93 degree weather
BMW in 57 degree weather, that said you will stand by your claims as will I, I think power to weigt ratio will prevail, but I know BMW's always post faster times than tested, perfect example is the 335, great performing car.

I will wait for hard core data, a comparo done by a reliable source, or when I drive one.
I hope to encounter one at Moroso and reserve my final thought then, I think that will really be my deciding factor.

I agree, many things vary, drivers, pavement, temps, humidity, altitude, variations in cars, tires, air pressure, etc.

but I doubt the two will ever be mag tested back to back as most dont shop a two door vs. a sedan.

On a road course or drag stip the M3 and C6 are sooooo close that the driver will determine which is faster. Which IMO gives the M3 the win being that its a 4/5 seat sports sedan as opposed to a dedicated 2 seat sports car.
sayemthree is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-17-2008, 01:56 PM   #128
Hammer
Lieutenant
 
Hammer's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Germany, Cologne

Posts: 421
iTrader: (0)

Brand Modell Time on Hockenheimring Time on Nürburgring

Corvette C6 1.14,8 min 8.15 min
BMW M3 n/a min 8.05 min

In my opinion both cars are great ones, but very different.
The bmw beats the corvette on the track abundantly clear.
Hammer is offline   Germany
0
Reply With Quote
      02-17-2008, 03:18 PM   #129
sayemthree
Brigadier General
 
sayemthree's Avatar
 
Drives: bmw
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: usa

Posts: 4,845
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer View Post
Brand Modell Time on Hockenheimring Time on Nürburgring

Corvette C6 1.14,8 min 8.15 min
BMW M3 n/a min 8.05 min

In my opinion both cars are great ones, but very different.
The bmw beats the corvette on the track abundantly clear.
nice find - but I am sure you will be challenged - were these tests on the same day? same driver? same conditions? and is that the 2008 C6 with 236 hp?
sayemthree is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-17-2008, 03:41 PM   #130
southlight
Moderator / European Editor
 
southlight's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Germany

Posts: 6,748
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sayemthree View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer View Post
Brand Modell Time on Hockenheimring Time on Nürburgring

Corvette C6 1.14,8 min 8.15 min
BMW M3 1.14.3 min 8.05 min

In my opinion both cars are great ones, but very different.
The bmw beats the corvette on the track abundantly clear.
nice find - but I am sure you will be challenged - were these tests on the same day? same driver? same conditions? and is that the 2008 C6 with 236 hp?
These are Sportauto times (Bruce mentioned them already and questioned Horst von Saurmas driving skills), so same driver, but not same day nor same conditions (too lazy to look now what the conditions were) and NO, not the 08 C6 with 436hp.


Best regards, south
southlight is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-17-2008, 09:03 PM   #131
malter2.0
Banned
 
Drives: em-funf
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: SF Bay Area

Posts: 908
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by spearfisher View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordsch...test_lap_times

Read
C5 ZO6 7:56
C6 7:59

Enough said, if you track your car, and on the same track as a C6 you'll get dusted. Argument over.

never mind, you don't have a E46 M3 or a E92 M3, so if I see you on a solo 1 track, I'll actually dust you in a Subaru.
Touche. Source is there.

However, I still stand behind my words that given the same condition (weather and driver), M3 is faster on n-ring than, both C5 and C5 Z06. Without a doubt in my mind. I will also note that this is the first semi-official time for M3, which is still very much a new car and naturally that time will be reduced as people get accommodated with the car.

Different drivers, different skills. Also, it would be interesting to see whether the track was empty when M3 was tested. Often times, they will test time with other drivers on the track.

You'll dust me in a Subaru? Trying hard not to give you my honest answer as it would put me on, apparently your 13-year old level. Do you also have a bigger brother that will beat me up?



Swamp2,

I cannot communicate with you. You are balls deep in something that you obviously don't understand, or at least from your verbiage that's what it seems. You might know it in your head, but thats not what I am reading. Some of things you are counter-arguing are basic, and I don't have time or patience to address it or to put in layman's terms. Good luck and keep up the good status. I'm not here to impress anyone.
malter2.0 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-18-2008, 12:21 AM   #132
swamp2
Lieutenant General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 10,200
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by malter2.0 View Post
Swamp2,

I cannot communicate with you. You are balls deep in something that you obviously don't understand, or at least from your verbiage that's what it seems. You might know it in your head, but thats not what I am reading. Some of things you are counter-arguing are basic, and I don't have time or patience to address it or to put in layman's terms. Good luck and keep up the good status. I'm not here to impress anyone.
Great discussion (not), you move from one glaring error to the next then move along to insults followed by apathy. You are really on a roll here. Whether or not you want to admit your errors of fact or errors in perception is irrelevant to the need to put your opinions in "laymans" terms. I was a scientist and engineer for some time and have done real engineering on both brake and suspension systems, so the need for "layman's" terms is again nothing but a poor excuse and another insult.

You don't have time nor patience for a real discussion about susupension systems but you have time to post silly school bus drag races in another post in this very section. Who is worried about their status here?
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:50 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST