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      12-21-2007, 11:22 PM   #1
gbb357
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Another possible threat to the e90 M3, the upcoming 500hp + CTS-V:

In terms of price it might challenged the e90 M3. Even though it's aimed at the RS6, M5, and the E63 performance wise, i don't see it competing with the price range of these German competitors. If it is too closed to the M3's price it might be a threat.






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Originally Posted by Insideline
Any speculation about the styling of the 2009 Cadillac CTS-V can now be laid to rest thanks to our exclusive spy photos. Snagged during a photo shoot of the upcoming Cadillac super sedan, these shots reveal a CTS V-Series with a dramatically revised front end, bigger wheels and tires and a few modest changes out back.

Gone is the egg-crate grille that gives the standard CTS such a distinctive look up front. In its place is a two-piece trapezoidal mesh grille much like the setup on the original CTS-V. We suspect the mesh design does a better job of feeding fresh air to the engine, as Cadillac has boasted about borrowing the design of the standard CTS's grille from the Sixteen concept.

Although the airdam on the CTS-V is certainly aggressive, it doesn't appear as though it's much lower to the ground when compared side by side with that of the standard CTS. This could be due to the fact that there's no bump strip at the bottom of this prototype piece, a detail that could be added to the production cars.

The shape of the airdam is continued all the way around the car by extended rocker sills and a reshaped rear fascia. It's more subtle than we expected, although the car already has fairly aggressive bodywork to begin with. Even the hood bulge is pretty sedate, as it blends in perfectly with the rest of the original hood creases.

Of course, the big question still remains: What's under that hood? Our best sources have been telling us to expect a normally aspirated LS7 V8, but a recent interview with Cadillac General Manager Jim Taylor seems to confirm the other most talked-about option a supercharged 6.2-liter V8. Either way, the 2009 CTS-V will have roughly 525 horsepower, a figure that will put it slightly ahead of direct competitors like the Audi S6, BMW M5 and Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG.

Taylor also confirms that the 2009 Cadillac CTS-V will offer the choice of a manual or automatic transmission both six-speeds. This should help broaden the appeal of the CTS-V, which has been a sales disappointment so far. Look for the official unveil of the 2009 Cadillac CTS-V at the 2008 Detroit Auto Show in January.
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      12-21-2007, 11:57 PM   #2
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a 'threat'? you mean it's gonna beat it up?

win in street races?
at the track?
at the bottom line/sales?
I don't think you'll have many BMW M3 to caddy crossovers

your people I do not understand
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      12-22-2007, 12:56 AM   #3
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Threat to the M3? How about the M5 as well?
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      12-22-2007, 02:38 AM   #4
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Big Deal.... im never going to buy it even if it does 0-60 in 0.1 sec !!
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      12-22-2007, 04:32 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Bemve View Post
Big Deal.... im never going to buy it even if it does 0-60 in 0.1 sec !!
The only threat that this car will be to either the M3 or M5 will be in the US market. In no other market will it sell, it's looks, build quality etc will not appeal to us educated Europeans who prefer a bit of style and class.

So you say 'THREAT' and I say 'WHERE'.
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      12-22-2007, 04:36 AM   #6
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Although I am sure they will release the car it seems to me they will have a very difficult time placing it in their line up. What will happen to the current STS-V at 469 hp and just about $80k, maybe 575 hp for the same $80k? What about the STS V8 "performance" with only 320 hp and at $53k???

On Cadillac in general: I recently stopped by the Cadillac area at the LAIAS to have a look aroud. I know Cadillac is really improving, getting sportier, TRYING to appeal to younger buyers, etc. I was thoroughly unimpressed. Looks: always subjective but ugly, ugly, all of them. The build quality was no where near where it should be at the prices either. The interiors were so dated and uninspired. Not even the somewhat decent looking, range toping, XLR-V could get me very excited. No wonder why someone would choose an M5 when this thing costs $100k.

Cadillac has an identity crisis IMO, they can't decide what kind of cars to build and who they want to appeal to. Even if they built a car that outperformed the E90 M3 AND was less expensive, it is the cold hard facts that they would end up stealing about 1% of BMWs market share. Price to performance rules IMO but not if you can not stand to look at nor be in the thing in the first place.
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      12-22-2007, 06:35 AM   #7
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The new CTS/CTS-V is a very ugly car inside and out. On some article they were touting that they were using the same interior material supplier as MB, but they're design is so busy with so much crap it looks like they pieced together 3 cars together. I personally really liked the previous exterior design, the interior design was ok but lacked in the finish quality.
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      12-22-2007, 07:01 AM   #8
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kinda hard to say when we don't know the price of either car.
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      12-22-2007, 09:07 AM   #9
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The previous CTS-V was a driver's car with a terrible interior, IMHO. It also had a problem with rear axle hop from a dig. Short of those 2 vices, it would have been hard for me to pass up because it really excelled on back roads, and was a straight-line king once past the first 30mph from a dig.

This edition promises to have the axle hop problem solved, mucho HP, and a much better interior. However, it grew in size to 5 BMW, 6 Audi size. Will it retain the hard edge of the prior edition on back roads? Don't know. Will it offer a dual clutch semi-auto? Don't know.

I think people will cross-shop the e90 M3 and the CTS-V. People cross-shopped the G35 with the e46 3 BMW despite the G35 being as big as the 5 series. I think the appeal here is not that it is a better car outright, but it may be a better car for many for the price.
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      12-22-2007, 10:58 AM   #10
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The problem with a lot of the cars competing with AMG, RS, and especially the M's is their designs and overall look of their cars. It's very hard for Cadillacs and Lexus to compete with that because most of the German cars are just much better looking and they don't have to struggle with their indentities like Swamp had mentioned. That's why they have to price their cars significantly much less to be able to compete and also try to outperform the German counterparts at the same time. I've always thought that the most important part of any car is the design, that's what sells. Granted that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but reputation and prestige helps a lot as well. And that's where they Germans have a huge advantage. BTW, i'm not saying that the Cadillacs are ugly, as a matter of fact i think they're very nice looking same with Lexus's which i'm a big fan of as well.
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      12-22-2007, 05:39 PM   #11
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it is so ugly

this car is simply very ugly. Those who like BMW like me will never consider this ugly looking car or anyother like the IS-F for example. There are a lot of fast cars in the market but these cars are way behind when it comes to style, heritage, class, Beautiy and other things that i just can't explain. There is something so youth and sporty about all BMW cars that gives it this amazing appeal to men in their 20s, 30s and 40s. I just don't find Cadillac or Lexus appealing at all no matter how i look at them. My wife thinks the Lexus SC is the most beautiful car ever !!!!!!!! go figure. and that is just my opinion.
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      12-22-2007, 10:57 PM   #12
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Those CTS don't really hold value too.
Try AutoTrader, you'll get my point.
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      01-04-2008, 01:06 PM   #13
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500HP ? I just dont see it. I know GM says they want the V to make M5's performance but for the price of an M3 thats not really viable. GM puts this into the M3's 50-60K price range, 500 HP would mean an LS7 motor and at least $70,000. Realistically I could see a Corvette LS3 430 HP. Considering its a Caddy and is kinda big and cheesy like most american brands I imagine the M3 will still out shine it in every way

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      01-04-2008, 02:02 PM   #14
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That car even pips the Fiat multipla as the ugliest car ever concieved.
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      01-04-2008, 03:30 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagobimmerboy View Post
500HP ? I just dont see it. I know GM says they want the V to make M5's performance but for the price of an M3 thats not really viable. GM puts this into the M3's 50-60K price range, 500 HP would mean an LS7 motor and at least $70,000. Realistically I could see a Corvette LS3 430 HP. Considering its a Caddy and is kinda big and cheesy like most american brands I imagine the M3 will still out shine it in every way

The last CTS-V was already at 400hp, i don't see why GM would'nt give the new one with 500hp. If it's priced right, it might just steal some sales from C63 and e90 M3. The STS-V was already price at $70k and the last CTS-V was only $50k, i don't think the next CTS-V will be even close to that $70k price range.
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      01-04-2008, 05:28 PM   #16
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I think the new CTS-V is to be propelled by the new LSA motor (supercharged 6.2L V8 supposedly delivering 520-550 horsepower).

Even with an improved engine, this heavy car won't come close to the handling of a BMW...and like mentioned above...UGLY!!!!
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      01-04-2008, 05:42 PM   #17
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Talking What to expect from cadillac POS

engine blows on 2006 cts-v with less than 12,000 miles



Threat to BMW???

He actually starts talking about buying a 335 and how the 335 is s great car....
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      01-05-2008, 10:56 AM   #18
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Urrgghh... that is one ugly car
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      01-05-2008, 12:35 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadget View Post
engine blows on 2006 cts-v with less than 12,000 miles



Threat to BMW???

He actually starts talking about buying a 335 and how the 335 is s great car....
I'm sure not all CTS-V's are lemons, just like not all e46 M3's aren't either even though there where so many of them reported of engine blowing up. Same goes with e92 335i's turbos overheating, not everyone had the same problem. My friends Sentra Spec-V's engine was blown with less than 15k miles. Sometimes it's just bad luck.
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      01-07-2008, 10:22 PM   #20
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caddy = fugly
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      01-08-2008, 05:04 PM   #21
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You where saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagobimmerboy View Post
500HP ? I just dont see it. I know GM says they want the V to make M5's performance but for the price of an M3 thats not really viable. GM puts this into the M3's 50-60K price range, 500 HP would mean an LS7 motor and at least $70,000. Realistically I could see a Corvette LS3 430 HP. Considering its a Caddy and is kinda big and cheesy like most american brands I imagine the M3 will still out shine it in every way

550hp CTS-V revealed: http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/08/d...d-with-550-hp/
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      01-08-2008, 10:52 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbb357 View Post
In terms of price it might challenged the e90 M3. Even though it's aimed at the RS6, M5, and the E63 performance wise, i don't see it competing with the price range of these German competitors. If it is too closed to the M3's price it might be a threat.





These cars are not even in the same class. Why are they being compared?
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