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      07-21-2014, 09:44 AM   #1
M3 Esq
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Turner did the work and they were only able to get -2.4 degrees negative camber up front on OEM ZCP springs. Was anyone able to get more camber up front on stock suspension?

Had the car out on the twisties over the weekend and the plates make a huge difference. There is a lot more grip up front and the turn in is much sharper. I will have the car on track tomorrow and will report back but I am super excited about this mod!
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      07-21-2014, 09:58 AM   #2
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i am not sure about vorshlag, but people have been reporting 3+ degrees from GC plates with stock suspension, so i think it should be possible as well with Vorshlag.
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      07-21-2014, 11:50 AM   #3
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I run 1.6 on the street and can push them over to 2.9 with stock ZCP suspension. you can get a lot more than 2.4. your caster looks different than mine though. your strut stem seems to be moving toward the upper strut brace arm. mine moves more straight across toward the motor. are you looking for one setting to cover street and track? if so, much more than 2.4 will start to eat tires. 2.9 on the track with NT01's is nice.
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      07-21-2014, 12:01 PM   #4
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Definitely the castor angle is causing u to not be able to maximize your static camber. That may not be a bad thing. The added castor gives you more camber when wheels are turned. Which is when u need it. When wheels are pointed straight the lower camber gives you more braking grip.

If you really want to max out your static camber then adjust the castor. You will be able to gain maybe 0.5 degree
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      07-21-2014, 01:37 PM   #5
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I've tested up to -2.8 on my Vorshlags on OEM non-ZCP EDC suspension. Ended up with dual -2.0/-2.5 street/track settings.

I'll check my caster settings tonight but as everyone else said, that's your limiting factor if you already maxed out camber.
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      07-21-2014, 01:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surlynkid View Post
I run 1.6 on the street and can push them over to 2.9 with stock ZCP suspension. you can get a lot more than 2.4. your caster looks different than mine though. your strut stem seems to be moving toward the upper strut brace arm. mine moves more straight across toward the motor. are you looking for one setting to cover street and track? if so, much more than 2.4 will start to eat tires. 2.9 on the track with NT01's is nice.
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Originally Posted by E92inSG View Post
Definitely the castor angle is causing u to not be able to maximize your static camber. That may not be a bad thing. The added castor gives you more camber when wheels are turned. Which is when u need it. When wheels are pointed straight the lower camber gives you more braking grip.

If you really want to max out your static camber then adjust the castor. You will be able to gain maybe 0.5 degree
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Originally Posted by mid-corner fun View Post
I've tested up to -2.8 on my Vorshlags on OEM non-ZCP EDC suspension. Ended up with dual -2.0/-2.5 street/track settings.

I'll check my caster settings tonight but as everyone else said, that's your limiting factor if you already maxed out camber.
They recommended one combined street/track alignment. I don't have specs right in front of me, but IIRC they set the camber to -2.4 F and -1.9 R. I am pretty sure they didn't touch the castor but I'd have to look again.

I am going to run NT-01s so I will chalk them to see if I am riding the edges.
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      07-21-2014, 07:10 PM   #7
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I run a single setting full-time on my non-ZCP car because adding negative camber also increases toe-in, which you don't want for the track, and I don't want to manually adjust toe just for track days. My original camber was -2.4, but I still chunked the outside of one of my front PSSes after 3 track weekends and 7500 total miles; but before I had plates, I corded both fronts in the same amount of time. So I'm now running -2.6 with 1/16" total toe-in, and wear seems to be better, though I've only got 2 weekends with this setup thus far. Not sure what my caster is though.

Speaking of tire wear, I also ended up reducing rear camber to -1.6 because I corded the insides of both rears on two sets of tires each after about 9K miles total.

But yeah, the Vorshlags are great. To be honest if you track more than 3 weekends per year, they'll pay for themselves in tire savings alone, at which point the added grip is just a free bonus.
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      07-21-2014, 08:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan
I run a single setting full-time on my non-ZCP car because adding negative camber also increases toe-in, which you don't want for the track, and I don't want to manually adjust toe just for track days. My original camber was -2.4, but I still chunked the outside of one of my front PSSes after 3 track weekends and 7500 total miles; but before I had plates, I corded both fronts in the same amount of time. So I'm now running -2.6 with 1/16" total toe-in, and wear seems to be better, though I've only got 2 weekends with this setup thus far. Not sure what my caster is though.

Speaking of tire wear, I also ended up reducing rear camber to -1.6 because I corded the insides of both rears on two sets of tires each after about 9K miles total.

But yeah, the Vorshlags are great. To be honest if you track more than 3 weekends per year, they'll pay for themselves in tire savings alone, at which point the added grip is just a free bonus.
Interesting, thanks for the feedback. They set the toe to 1/16 toe in both F and R so we'll see how she does.

It was pretty cool. TMS doesn't have an alignment rack, so they did a string alignment with input from the race team.
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      07-22-2014, 09:28 AM   #9
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Looked up my numbers.

Max -2.8 camber & 1/16 toe out with 6.8 degrees of caster for reference, but that's on a non-ZCP suspension. (not for street use).

More importantly, I can get 0.5 degree camber variance for a 1/16 toe in to 1/16 toe out change without adjusting toe links, that simplifies street/track settings changes.
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      07-22-2014, 09:32 AM   #10
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OP's caster setting is around 9.

that means the adjustment knob is pushed further back towards the firewall and thus has less space to shift inwards for additional camber
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      07-22-2014, 09:51 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92inSG View Post
OP's caster setting is around 9.

that means the adjustment knob is pushed further back towards the firewall and thus has less space to shift inwards for additional camber
+1

My camber with Vorshlags is maxed at -2.9. Caster is the issue here.
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      07-23-2014, 10:12 AM   #12
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Thanks for all of the input guys. I had the car out on track yesterday at LRP. The car felt good and the turn in was much better than stock. I was running NT01s for the first time and I was getting a tad bit of camber wear but nothing major. I rotated at lunch time and that seemed to help. I am pretty sure -2.4 will be a good street/track compromise but I will tweak as needed.

I spent the day getting used to the new setup, but I was running about 1.5 -2 seconds faster with this setup.

These plates seem like a gateway drug to coilovers.
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      07-23-2014, 10:21 AM   #13
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That does seem like really low camber for camber plates, but glad you're liking the performance regardless. I now have -1.9 with just springs and completely stock otherwise EDC car (pins pulled).
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      07-23-2014, 10:26 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porschefile View Post
That does seem like really low camber for camber plates, but glad you're liking the performance regardless. I now have -1.9 with just springs and completely stock otherwise EDC car (pins pulled).
Seems like every car is different. When I pulled the pins I could only get -1.5. Do you have -1.9 on both sides? That's very good.
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      07-23-2014, 10:33 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by M3 Esq View Post
Seems like every car is different. When I pulled the pins I could only get -1.5. Do you have -1.9 on both sides? That's very good.
Yeah, every car is different for sure. Lowering springs also add -.2-.4 negative, depending on how low.

I have -1.9 right and -1.6 left with pins pulled, lowering springs, stock struts. Feels pretty good in corners, but eats the outsides of the tires some. I used to run around -3 on KW CS but switched back to stock when I made the car my DD.
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      08-02-2014, 12:26 PM   #16
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I think you caster is too high of a # those limiting your camber.
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      08-04-2014, 03:09 PM   #17
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My order is in, awaiting completion of the next production run. So, many thanks to all for posting your data and experience -- it will be very useful to me.
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      08-04-2014, 05:17 PM   #18
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If any shop other than turner did the install, I would be questioning the castor settings. Is that what they recommended??

I just had to check the castor on my vorshlags and confirmed that it is in the stock position. I can get -3.6 camber although that is too much for my setup.
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      08-04-2014, 06:01 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickyBobby
If any shop other than turner did the install, I would be questioning the castor settings. Is that what they recommended??

I just had to check the castor on my vorshlags and confirmed that it is in the stock position. I can get -3.6 camber although that is too much for my setup.
I didn't really ask them about castor. I just asked them to install the plates and give me a good track/street alignment. They said more than -2.5 negative camber would be too aggressive for the street anyway.

You can get -3.6 on stock springs?

I can ask them about castor but why would I want more than -2.4 anyway for a set it and forget it alignment?

Like I said I had it out on track and the car felt great. Not sure I want to tinker any more at this point.
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      08-05-2014, 12:05 AM   #20
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For the street your setup is perfect. On the track, R-compounds generally need more camber to work properly. -3 would probably be ideal. But then the handling on street tires will start to get compromised, especially in the rain.

Some switch between different camber settings for the street and the track, but unfortunately changing camber affects the toe setting too. So most stick with a compromise in the -2.5 range unless it's a full blown track car.
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