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      07-04-2014, 11:23 AM   #1
M__3__R__A__G__E
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Motul 0w40 8100 X-Max

Let me just begin by apologising in advance for creating yet ANOTHER oil thread. However I have been doing heaps of searching and haven't come across anyone's honest review and opinion on using Motul's 0w40 8100 X-Max as my daily driving oil. It is on the BMW LL-01 list, so it's in the clear. I just wanted to ask what the benefits were to using this oil. I live in the Bay Area California where the temperature fluctuates from the low 40s in the winter to about 85+ in the summer. Also my car is under warranty, but I feel I won't cause any stir with BMW since it is on their LL-01. I would appreciate your input.
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      07-04-2014, 12:29 PM   #2
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many will tell you what im about to say but might as well get this point out of the way....

its not 100% clear that LL-01 is on the list of approved oils for the S65. the bulletin from 2013 can be interpreted many ways, and when dealers or BMWNA is asked directly, they say 10w60 only. thats at least my impression from the countless threads on the subject.

just getting that out of the way...

this coming from someone who literally 5 hours ago switched over to mobil 1 0w40

only drove it for about 30 mins on the way back home, but car felt pretty much the same.

note : oh, and from what i read on the subject... when the dealers / technicans click thru the inpa screens it still list 10w60 only. i could be wrong, but a few people mentioned that fact.

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Let me just begin by apologising in advance for creating yet ANOTHER oil thread. However I have been doing heaps of searching and haven't come across anyone's honest review and opinion on using Motul's 0w40 8100 X-Max as my daily driving oil. It is on the BMW LL-01 list, so it's in the clear. I just wanted to ask what the benefits were to using this oil. I live in the Bay Area California where the temperature fluctuates from the low 40s in the winter to about 85+ in the summer. Also my car is under warranty, but I feel I won't cause any stir with BMW since it is on their LL-01. I would appreciate your input.
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      07-04-2014, 02:39 PM   #3
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many will tell you what im about to say but might as well get this point out of the way....

its not 100% clear that LL-01 is on the list of approved oils for the S65. the bulletin from 2013 can be interpreted many ways, and when dealers or BMWNA is asked directly, they say 10w60 only. thats at least my impression from the countless threads on the subject.

just getting that out of the way...

this coming from someone who literally 5 hours ago switched over to mobil 1 0w40

only drove it for about 30 mins on the way back home, but car felt pretty much the same.

note : oh, and from what i read on the subject... when the dealers / technicans click thru the inpa screens it still list 10w60 only. i could be wrong, but a few people mentioned that fact.
thanks buddy, i appreciate the response
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      07-04-2014, 04:25 PM   #4
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This is my observation (I'm currently running M1 0W40), if you must run a xW-40 oil, M1 0W40 has better technical specs than 8100 0W40. M1 has higher HTHS and TBN, which makes it more shear stable when you flog the motor, and it's more serviceable. 8100 5W40 x-cess is more comparable to M1 0W40.

I also notice from many oil analysis reports that fellow owners are getting good wear results from the newer 10W60 Edge Pro with titanium and higher moly.

It's up to you to decide.
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      07-05-2014, 09:42 AM   #5
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I don't think there's a call for 0W-40 in Northern California climates even on our engine with its tight clearances. 0W is intended for subzero temperatures. But if you do feel the need, I would stick with Mobil 1.

Mobil 1 0W-40 also meets LL-01 (http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...l_1_0W-40.aspx), but LL-01 oil for our cars is still in an approval gray area at best. Take a look at this thread: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16214940
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      07-05-2014, 09:56 AM   #6
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BMW only approved 10 60 for the s65. People are wrong in interpreting BMW memo that stated otherwise.
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      07-05-2014, 10:16 AM   #7
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Why change oil if what you are using is tested and doing fine for thousands? Price? Peace of mind? I though about changing myself but why alter the oil that I/you have been running on for thousands of miles? Don't see the need in it. Not trying to start an argument, just curious.
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      07-05-2014, 10:23 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by S65 Underdog View Post
Why change oil if what you are using is tested and doing fine for thousands? Price? Peace of mind? I though about changing myself but why alter the oil that I/you have been running on for thousands of miles? Don't see the need in it. Not trying to start an argument, just curious.
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I guess I have to post in this dreaded forum. Two weeks ago lost my engine and it is currently being replaced under warranty. It happened at a bmwcca HPDE too. Third 25 minute run of the day the engine just shut down on me going 120mph down the straight. No drama, just shut off. I had just taken it out of 4th to downshift to third when it died. Coasted to a stop in neutral, did not try putting it back in gear. I was too busy panicking going into turn one at that speed with no power steering or brakes! Luckily track had a big runoff so all was well. After stopping, I tried starting the car and all I got was a clunk. Also, all the dash lights stayed lit. Could not shut anything off no matter what I tried. Let the car sit over night hoping it was just an electric issue. Car never over heated and I kept my eye on the oil all day. Next morning, car still wouldn't start. Hooked up an auto logic and it told me the battery was only at 29% charge. I felt better thinking maybe I just cooked the alternator. Put it on a trickle charger for a couple hours. Tried to start it and it turned over a couple times making a horrible squeak and crunch. Thought maybe the alternator was seized...still thinking this was good news. Tried a few more times but still couldn't get it to start. Waited an hour debating to hit the BMW assist button. Decided to try it one more time and she fired right up! No check engine lights, no drama. Idled like always. Let it run for two hours idling. Temp was good, oil was good, no CELs. Still decided not to take part in day two of the HPDE. Just took rides all day. I live 60 miles from the track or so and did not want to push my luck since I wanted to drive it home if possible. Short way home I started hearing a rattle/knock in the engine under load. Kept telling myself that it was the alternator making noise but in the back of my head I had this horrible thought that it sounded like a rod knock. Made it home. Took it to BMW the next day. They called me two days later saying that the noise was coming from the bottom end and a new engine was on order! Pretty disappointed as you could imagine. For the record, I will say I was anal about my breakin and driving. Never revved past 4k till temp gauge was at the middle, followed the breakin procedure religiously.

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      07-05-2014, 10:27 AM   #9
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Shotty situation but kind of vague for the oil debate. This is a 2013, could have been a fluke engine that was covered under warranty.
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      07-05-2014, 10:38 AM   #10
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So let's get this straight. You want to change your oil to a non approved oil due to a thread of a motor letting go. But your car is under warranty too? Believe that if your car were to blow up running anything other than 1060 you'd have a very hard time getting BMW to foot the bill. I would think they would deny coverage
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      07-06-2014, 01:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M__3__R__A__G__E View Post
Let me just begin by apologising in advance for creating yet ANOTHER oil thread. However I have been doing heaps of searching and haven't come across anyone's honest review and opinion on using Motul's 0w40 8100 X-Max as my daily driving oil. It is on the BMW LL-01 list, so it's in the clear. I just wanted to ask what the benefits were to using this oil. I live in the Bay Area California where the temperature fluctuates from the low 40s in the winter to about 85+ in the summer. Also my car is under warranty, but I feel I won't cause any stir with BMW since it is on their LL-01. I would appreciate your input.

Ignoring the LL-01 compatibility controversy, I will say that the X-Max 0w40 is a pretty unremarkable oil on paper and in operation. I'm sure it would work fine (since it has LL-01 approval), but given that it is not readily available at brick-and-mortar stores, the extra cost isn't justified. The additive pack is mediocre, the specs are mediocre, and the basestocks are relatively low-tech. You can do much better for the same or less money.

If you want to stick with LL-01 oils, your best bets for off-the-shelf are going to be Mobil 1 0w40 or Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5w40. Both can be had for $6/qt or less when on sale at most auto parts stores.
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      07-06-2014, 01:53 PM   #12
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I don't think there's a call for 0W-40 in Northern California climates even on our engine with its tight clearances. 0W is intended for subzero temperatures. But if you do feel the need, I would stick with Mobil 1.
That is a fallacy that needs to die. There are literally zero reasons NOT to use a 0wXX oil almost everywhere in the world. 0wXX is not intended only for cold climates.

Even if it's 65 degrees at night where you live, the 0w will always be better at startup than a 5wXX or 10wXX.

Also remember that these cars are water-cooled and not air-cooled, so the other fallacy of "thicker is better for warm climates" needs to die too.
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      07-06-2014, 02:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
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I don't think there's a call for 0W-40 in Northern California climates even on our engine with its tight clearances. 0W is intended for subzero temperatures. But if you do feel the need, I would stick with Mobil 1.
That is a fallacy that needs to die. There are literally zero reasons NOT to use a 0wXX oil almost everywhere in the world. 0wXX is not intended only for cold climates.

Even if it's 65 degrees at night where you live, the 0w will always be better at startup than a 5wXX or 10wXX.

Also remember that these cars are water-cooled and not air-cooled, so the other fallacy of "thicker is better for warm climates" needs to die too.
Agreed on 0W always flowing better regardless of ambient temp, but the benefits diminish as temperature climbs, and those benefits have to be weighed against the issues already discussed above and elsewhere in this thread.
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      07-06-2014, 05:56 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
Agreed on 0W always flowing better regardless of ambient temp, but the benefits diminish as temperature climbs, and those benefits have to be weighed against the issues already discussed above and elsewhere in this thread.

M1 0w40 is quite stout and can take high-temp/high-stress use just fine.

It's not exactly a direct trade-off...you truly can get excellent low and high temp protection from a single oil these days. Don't believe me? Go look at the countless UOAs.
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      07-06-2014, 06:07 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
Agreed on 0W always flowing better regardless of ambient temp, but the benefits diminish as temperature climbs, and those benefits have to be weighed against the issues already discussed above and elsewhere in this thread.

M1 0w40 is quite stout and can take high-temp/high-stress use just fine.

It's not exactly a direct trade-off...you truly can get excellent low and high temp protection from a single oil these days. Don't believe me? Go look at the countless UOAs.
I'm referring more to the highly uncertain approval status, the extremely limited information on how well it performs in our specific engines, the total dearth of information on any long-term effects, and the fact that on top of all that, there is still no meaningful evidence whatsoever that it actually does reduce bearing wear. Reasonable theory does not always play out in practice, and one or two Blackstone Labs reports and does not count as reliable, generally applicable information.

That's what has to be weighed when considering using 0W-40 over the 10W-60 that BMW has unquestionably approved.
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      07-06-2014, 07:29 PM   #16
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In the interest of avoiding yet another 'OMG GUYZ LL-01' thread, I'm trying to discuss the merits (if any) of X-Max 0w40 over the breadth of other similar oils. You're trying to turn the discussion back into another LL-01 debate, which I think we've already beat to death elsewhere on this site.
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