BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > M3 vs....
 
European Auto Source (EAS)
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-31-2012, 06:45 AM   #1
NHman
Captain
132
Rep
727
Posts

Drives: 2018 Audi S4 Prestige
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NorthEast

iTrader: (0)

Audi RS5, would you consider it?

I am planning on ordering an M3 coupe with pick-up at BMW's Performance Center next spring. However the now available (to the US market) Audi RS5 is a compelling alternative. Potential drawbacks, aside from brand preference, would be DSG (i.e. DCT) only and AWD. Otherwise both use a N.A. engine developing similar power. Assuming equal equipment both are priced the same.

The RS5 has been available overseas for a few years. Perhaps some forum members have been able to drive this car and can comment the pros and cons vs. the M3.

I have owned several BMW's with my last one being a 335i vert. The M3 is on my short list of vehicles to own but it doesn't hurt me to consider other vehicles before committing $70k or so dollars on a purchase.
Appreciate 0
      05-31-2012, 06:56 AM   #2
rjd598
Banned
United_States
1770
Rep
6,696
Posts

Drives: F30 340i
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego,CA

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2016 BMW 340i  [0.00]
Apparently it's a great car like all RS's but its still lost to the m3 in comparisons. Price point is speculated to be higher than the m3 as well
Appreciate 0
      05-31-2012, 07:16 AM   #3
pagey
New Member
0
Rep
5
Posts

Drives: corsa
Join Date: May 2012
Location: evesham

iTrader: (0)

Fantastically built cars, something them is a bit more business like than the m3 imho though! Certainly worth considering saying that!!
Appreciate 0
      05-31-2012, 07:28 AM   #4
Nati Beastcat
Party at the Moontower
Nati Beastcat's Avatar
134
Rep
1,287
Posts

Drives: X5D
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Cincinnati

iTrader: (5)

I don't feel like Audi has the lust factor that the M brand carries. There are a lot of people that will look at the M3, M5 and say god damn I want that car! I just don't feel like you get that with an Audi.
__________________
Eisenmann race | Test Pipes | BPM Stage 2 | Vorsteiner | Black lines | AA filter | iND cosmetics | KW Sleeve over | 20" BBS LM's | Macht Schnell Tow Strap | Euro modded front bumper | Revinora lip | iND mirror caps | BMW spoiler | BMW Steering wheel | iND Interior Pkg |You bet Jerez its black and i'll never go back! Instagram @NATIBEASTCAT
Appreciate 0
      05-31-2012, 08:02 AM   #5
Jet335i
Major
Jet335i's Avatar
185
Rep
1,085
Posts

Drives: '21 F96 X6MC, '11 E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NJ

iTrader: (5)

check this out: http://www.quattroworld.com/audi-new...-for-2013-rs5/
Appreciate 0
      05-31-2012, 09:26 AM   #6
bruce.augenstein@comcast.
Colonel
99
Rep
2,000
Posts

Drives: 2017 C63
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Manheim, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SehrSchnell View Post
Great looking car, great exhaust note, one of the best interiors in the business, but mediocre performance for the price. Would make a fantastic daily driver, but will be a lackluster on the track.
Not sure what you meant by "mediocre" and "lackluster", but if you meant these terms to mean not very quick, there are two extended videos in these very pages showing the RS5 to be a bit quicker than the M3 on track, by virtue of superior traction coming out of turns, and slightly better low to mid range torque.

These were tests by magazine types (as opposed to pros), meaning they're better than most of us on track, but far from Godlike.

The cars were closer than half past six in both tests by the way, but the Audi was just that little bit quicker, and consistently so.

Acceleration? Again, very, very close.

In short, pick 'em. They're both winners - unless the RS5 is U.S - priced more against an M5 than an M3. History suggests that won't be the case, but you never know.

Bruce
Appreciate 0
      05-31-2012, 11:08 AM   #7
NHman
Captain
132
Rep
727
Posts

Drives: 2018 Audi S4 Prestige
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NorthEast

iTrader: (0)

In-terms of performance, reading various comparisons from publications such as CAR, MT, etc the test data seems to be about even. I'm sure there is some variance depending on how each car is running and possibly the driver.

The M3 can be configured with limited options. Thus keeping the purchase price low. I can see this appealing to dedicated track users. However I suspect (and I don't have actual data to back my statement) is that most owners order their cars with most of the options. Therefore the MSRP would range from $72 - $75k USD. This is were the RS5 would be priced except for adding the ceramic front brakes at $6k.

The M3 being more pure could also be more rewarding to the driver especially for track day events. Where the RS5 with AWD and torque-vectoring would help the novice or casual driver. For some potential owners not having a MT would immediately exclude this type of car (as with a C63). Tough part is the lack of availability of any demo models. If one was to order an RS5 it would need to be on faith. I have test driven an M3 several times and know this is a good vehicle for me.

To an earlier statement about status of the M3 vs. RS5. I agree that in the US the M series has more of an appeal and following. Aside from the R8, Audi hasn't imported any of the upper line models. The last one was the RS4 and recently with the TTRS. It's more of question of which one would better fit the lifestyle and preference.

I am more aligned with BMW vs. Audi but I do respect what Audi has done over the last few years. They have some good products. Most likely I will stay with the M3 and submit my order in December but I have several months to research and decide. My post was just to solicit feedback from others who have looked at the RS5 or have owned one (overseas).
Appreciate 0
      05-31-2012, 12:34 PM   #8
signes
Brigadier General
signes's Avatar
United_States
199
Rep
4,318
Posts

Drives: 991 GT3 RS
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Living at (almost...) 9k

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NHman View Post
In-terms of performance, reading various comparisons from publications such as CAR, MT, etc the test data seems to be about even. I'm sure there is some variance depending on how each car is running and possibly the driver.

The M3 can be configured with limited options. Thus keeping the purchase price low. I can see this appealing to dedicated track users. However I suspect (and I don't have actual data to back my statement) is that most owners order their cars with most of the options. Therefore the MSRP would range from $72 - $75k USD. This is were the RS5 would be priced except for adding the ceramic front brakes at $6k.

The M3 being more pure could also be more rewarding to the driver especially for track day events. Where the RS5 with AWD and torque-vectoring would help the novice or casual driver. For some potential owners not having a MT would immediately exclude this type of car (as with a C63). Tough part is the lack of availability of any demo models. If one was to order an RS5 it would need to be on faith. I have test driven an M3 several times and know this is a good vehicle for me.

To an earlier statement about status of the M3 vs. RS5. I agree that in the US the M series has more of an appeal and following. Aside from the R8, Audi hasn't imported any of the upper line models. The last one was the RS4 and recently with the TTRS. It's more of question of which one would better fit the lifestyle and preference.

I am more aligned with BMW vs. Audi but I do respect what Audi has done over the last few years. They have some good products. Most likely I will stay with the M3 and submit my order in December but I have several months to research and decide. My post was just to solicit feedback from others who have looked at the RS5 or have owned one (overseas).
Audi has actually imported quite a few - RS4, RS6, R8, R8 GT, TT-RS, etc. Not to mention that the "original" B5 S4 had quite a following. Enthusiasts respect RS cars here (those who aren't brand whores). They may have their inherent handling handicap (quattro and required engine placement, weight) but I have found them to be very impressive cars across the board.

My biggest beef for the RS5 (and the M3 for that matter) is weight. Quite frankly neither is a great track car, you just can't say that for a car weighing well over two tons. The M3's capabilities are very impressive given its weight, but to say that it is a great track car and the RS5 will not be? Don't agree at all. Lack of a manual (and need for 4 doors) will keep me out of the RS5.

Attaching the order guide I got from a local dealer. Base price is $68.9k plus $895 destination. A lot more competitive that I would have expected.
Attached Images
File Type: pdf rs5 order guide and pricing.pdf (787.5 KB, 833 views)
__________________
GT3 RS | Desperately seeking the next great M car...
Appreciate 0
      05-31-2012, 01:10 PM   #9
MattE92
Private First Class
15
Rep
137
Posts

Drives: 2012 E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

an M3 has a presence, an RS5 is just like an A5 until its 10 feet away. i don't like to way audis feel, loose steering wheel, doesn't hug corners, its like steering a fast car. an M3 is drives like it owns the road.

however i've wanted an M3 since i was 11yrs old...
Appreciate 0
      05-31-2012, 02:04 PM   #10
EvosM3
Banned
5
Rep
169
Posts

Drives: WTB E90 M3
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: America

iTrader: (0)

I'm in Europe right now and have seen two RS5's so far, they're beautiful and I'm sure are great performers. I wouldn't take one over the M3 though.
Appreciate 0
      05-31-2012, 03:21 PM   #11
JerezblackM3
First Lieutenant
55
Rep
330
Posts

Drives: e92 m3 dct
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: lebanon

iTrader: (0)

I can't seem to find the original, but hope this helps


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CQQ7yf7N5Y&feature=youtube_gdata_player
__________________
SicknTuned Performance
Appreciate 0
      05-31-2012, 04:52 PM   #12
gblansten
Brigadier General
gblansten's Avatar
1913
Rep
4,171
Posts

Drives: 23 Tesla S Plaid
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Thick ascending limb

iTrader: (0)

More expensive and an engine in front of the front axle aren't strong selling points to me.
Appreciate 0
      05-31-2012, 05:03 PM   #13
strummr
Private
strummr's Avatar
7
Rep
61
Posts

Drives: X3MC, TTS, S3M3, GTI
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: LoCo

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattE92 View Post
an M3 has a presence, an RS5 is just like an A5 until its 10 feet away. i don't like to way audis feel, loose steering wheel, doesn't hug corners, its like steering a fast car. an M3 is drives like it owns the road.

however i've wanted an M3 since i was 11yrs old...
Seriously? An e9x M3 looks mostly like another one of the zillion 3 series out there, but have you seen an A5 in a grouping of cars, or even more so an RS5 in person? The latter has those splitter/brake scoops, the honking grill and the mostly unique coupe stance, that demands 'presence'.

We know the RS5 will be burdened by the AWD system, but as most said, the everyday comfort and build quality is undeniable - along with the elegant, understated (less so lately) designs.
__________________
Current: 2019 Porsche TTS stg2 custom-tuned, 2022 X3MC RC-GTS-Blk boosted, 2005 Dinan S3 M3 ZCP custom-tuned, 2016 GTi SE PP 6MT | notable recents: 2015 Cayenne Turbo, 2019 VMAX, 2015 Porsche 911 TTS, 2011 Porsche 911 TTS, 2013 GT-R BE A12+, 2011 E92 M3, 2010 Corvette Z06
Appreciate 0
      05-31-2012, 05:41 PM   #14
M3 Montreal
Colonel
68
Rep
2,194
Posts

Drives: 2012 M3 SG ,DCT & 2011 S4
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Montreal , Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SehrSchnell
Great looking car, great exhaust note, one of the best interiors in the business, but mediocre performance for the price. Would make a fantastic daily driver, but will be a lackluster on the track.
Just because it lost out to the M3 it doesn't mean it would be bad at the track.

I brought my STOCK S4 to the track once and had no problem passing all the E90 M3's on the track that day.

Im sure the RS5 can outdo the S4 which is quite a capable car on the track as is.

In my view if you live in an area with snow during the winters and want a car that has AWD but is also a great car to bring to the track on weekends then you can't go wrong. An AWD is not as fun as a powerful RWD though so you might get bored when you get better.
__________________
2012 E92-M3 Space Grey on Fox Red, DCT

2011 B8 S4 S-Tronic , Black on magma red
Appreciate 0
      05-31-2012, 07:33 PM   #15
LarThaL
Colonel
LarThaL's Avatar
334
Rep
2,940
Posts

Drives: 2011 M3
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: West Springfield, MA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NHman View Post
I am planning on ordering an M3 coupe with pick-up at BMW's Performance Center next spring. However the now available (to the US market) Audi RS5 is a compelling alternative. Potential drawbacks, aside from brand preference, would be DSG (i.e. DCT) only and AWD. Otherwise both use a N.A. engine developing similar power. Assuming equal equipment both are priced the same.

The RS5 has been available overseas for a few years. Perhaps some forum members have been able to drive this car and can comment the pros and cons vs. the M3.

I have owned several BMW's with my last one being a 335i vert. The M3 is on my short list of vehicles to own but it doesn't hurt me to consider other vehicles before committing $70k or so dollars on a purchase.
Well, I am a former RS4 owner, so I think I am in a pretty good position to answer this. Basically these cars are really equal on the overall balance sheet. The M3 will have some advantages, the RS5 others.

There is no question that AWD will allow you to just hammer the car with much less chance of losing control. I have to be more careful driving the M3 than I did the RS4, especially with the stability programs off, which is what you need to do to fully enjoy either car. Advantage RS5.

Looks are purely subjective, but I honestly think the old RS5 (pre-facelift) looked better than the new one. Audi is known for their interiors, but the grade of interior materials Audi is currently using is a step down from what it used to be. The M3 with extended leather really looks upscale IMO. Advantage M3, if optioned correctly.

Exhaust....RS5, hands down. Not even close. This is simply one of the nicest sounding stock exhausts. Period.

Engines are similar. Audi has a bit more mid range punch, the M3 screams more up top. Toss-up.

Where the M3 totally dominates, however, is the feel of the chassis, and steering responsiveness. By comparison, the Audi feels heavy, sluggish, with a less precise feel to the steering. This will always be the case when the front wheels are also driven.

In the end, if I lived where there was snow, and I had to have one car, I would get the RS5. If snow isn't a concern, or you have another winter vehicle, the M3 just has a more dynamic feel.

However.....and you need to be really honest with yourself here....if you are a less skilled driver, it will be easier to extract maximum performance out of the RS5 due to its AWD.
__________________
Audi S6 * Audi S3 * Porsche Cayman GTS
--Former BMW M3 owner

Last edited by LarThaL; 05-31-2012 at 07:58 PM..
Appreciate 0
      05-31-2012, 07:54 PM   #16
gblansten
Brigadier General
gblansten's Avatar
1913
Rep
4,171
Posts

Drives: 23 Tesla S Plaid
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Thick ascending limb

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarThaL View Post
Well, I am a former RS4 owner, so I think I ma in a pretty good position to answer this. Basically these cars are really equal on the overall balance sheet. The M3 will have some advantages, the RS5 others.

There is no question that AWD will allow you to just hammer the car with much less chance of losing control. I have to be more careful driving the M3 than I did the RS4, especially with the stability programs off, which is what you need to do to fully enjoy either car. Advantage RS5.

Looks are purely subjective, but I honestly think the old RS5 (pre-facelift) looked better than the new one. Audi is known for their interiors, but the grade of interior materials Audi is currently using is a step down from what it used to be. The M3 with extended leather really looks upscale IMO. Advantage M3, if optioned correctly.

Exhaust....RS5, hands down. Not even close. This is simply one of the nicest sounding stock exhausts. Period.

Engines are similar. Audi has a bit more mid range punch, the M3 screams more up top. Toss-up.

Where the M3 totally dominates, however, is the feel of the chassis, and steering responsiveness. By comparison, the Audi feels heavy, sluggish, with a less precise feel to the steering.

In the end, if I lived where there was snow, and I had to have one car, I would get the RS5. If snow isn't a concern, or you have another winter vehicle, the M3 just has a more dynamic feel.

However.....and you need to be really honest with yourself here....if you are a less skilled driver, it will be easier to extract maximum performance out of the RS5 due to its AWD.
Good write up. It is still hard to believe that it has taken this long for Audi to respond to BMW's M3 which came out in fall 2007.
Appreciate 0
      05-31-2012, 08:22 PM   #17
Lay-Z M3
Private First Class
Canada
16
Rep
179
Posts

Drives: ASPP 135i Cab, E90 M3, M235i
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Was Eastside, then Westside, now Eastside again!!

iTrader: (0)

You may like this:-



I cant find the UK Top Gear M3 comp Ed Vs RS5 thats not in Italian or indeed home video'd by a moron..........so this (as its a stablemate RS4) will have to do!!

Appreciate 0
      05-31-2012, 08:24 PM   #18
Lay-Z M3
Private First Class
Canada
16
Rep
179
Posts

Drives: ASPP 135i Cab, E90 M3, M235i
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Was Eastside, then Westside, now Eastside again!!

iTrader: (0)

It would seem to be a question of 'Understeer from the far to the front Audi Vs slight oversteer from perfectly controllable weight distribution & a decent diff'

But dont get me wrong I love the RS5 too........true story!!
Appreciate 0
      05-31-2012, 09:05 PM   #19
Hurricane
Lieutenant
Hurricane's Avatar
United_States
60
Rep
552
Posts

Drives: 2015 C63 507
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New England

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2012 E92 M3  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarThaL View Post
Well, I am a former RS4 owner, so I think I am in a pretty good position to answer this. Basically these cars are really equal on the overall balance sheet. The M3 will have some advantages, the RS5 others.

There is no question that AWD will allow you to just hammer the car with much less chance of losing control. I have to be more careful driving the M3 than I did the RS4, especially with the stability programs off, which is what you need to do to fully enjoy either car. Advantage RS5.

Looks are purely subjective, but I honestly think the old RS5 (pre-facelift) looked better than the new one. Audi is known for their interiors, but the grade of interior materials Audi is currently using is a step down from what it used to be. The M3 with extended leather really looks upscale IMO. Advantage M3, if optioned correctly.

Exhaust....RS5, hands down. Not even close. This is simply one of the nicest sounding stock exhausts. Period.

Engines are similar. Audi has a bit more mid range punch, the M3 screams more up top. Toss-up.

Where the M3 totally dominates, however, is the feel of the chassis, and steering responsiveness. By comparison, the Audi feels heavy, sluggish, with a less precise feel to the steering. This will always be the case when the front wheels are also driven.

In the end, if I lived where there was snow, and I had to have one car, I would get the RS5. If snow isn't a concern, or you have another winter vehicle, the M3 just has a more dynamic feel.

However.....and you need to be really honest with yourself here....if you are a less skilled driver, it will be easier to extract maximum performance out of the RS5 due to its AWD.
This is a very good write up. I am a former RS4 owner as well.

The Audi is very easy to drive. It makes the even the most talentless driver look like the Stig. It can be driven hard in almost any weather condition. It does suffer from understeer but the car needs to be pushed hard to really feel it.

The exhaust note was a deep guttural growl and one of the things I miss most about the car.

The one thing I haven't seen mentioned is the exclusivity of the Audi R lineup in the United States. They are quite rare. Only about 2500 B7 RS4s made it to the United States. I would only assume that number would be similar for the RS5. This could come into play when purchasing the vehicle. I would expect to pay a minimum of MSRP if you're lucky. But, you would be one of the few lucky people to own the car. However, the M3 in your neck of the woods is also pretty rare. I have only seen 1 E90 M3 where I live and 0 E92s.

One last thing to consider. The Audi RS5 engine is an FSI model. This engine is notorious for excessive oil consumption and carbon build up. Do a Google search on the engine before purchasing the car. They are extremely annoying issues and one of the reasons I now own an M3.

The RS5 is gorgeous and would most likely make a wonderful daily driver. It will make you feel confident as you push it to the limit. It would probably be a blast on the track especially if your a novice. And it's rare.

The M3 is the driver's choice. We have seen the comparisons and the M3 has always won (Top Gear, Car and Driver, MotorTrend). Once the novelty of RS5 ownership wears off you will begin to wonder what it is about the M3 that makes it a perennial favorite of automotive enthusiasts and critics everywhere. Drive one and you will see. It's just that good.

Either way you can't go wrong.
Appreciate 0
      05-31-2012, 11:12 PM   #20
adc
Major General
United_States
2725
Rep
6,750
Posts

Drives: 2018 F80 M3 ED
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MD/DC

iTrader: (12)

You know how the best driver's cars always feel like more than the sum of their parts? Well the M3 has always felt like that to me - all generations. It's true even for my cheap-ass Miata.

From what I've read, the RS5 is not like that - people seem to have trouble finding a sweet spot between transmission, suspension, engine and steering settings, and the overall comments are that it never really gels into an Aha! moment.

I haven't driven one, so I don't know if that is quite true. What I do know is that I absolutely hate under steer, street or track. And this has been my limiting factor on track, so speaking for me personally I believe I would be faster over a whole session in the M than in the RS, even though initial laps may go down to the Audi. Could be wrong of course...

I would never buy one because of different reasons though - lack of manual tranny, and very poor packaging in the rear (I have a kid). If you try to get in the back of an A5/S5, you will understand...

I don't quite understand the market for it, honestly. If you wanted auto and grunt, wouldn't you go C63? And if you fancied AWD, wouldn't a certified used GT-R be much better? As is , it's for people who want a sort of M3 but with AWD and crappier feel. It's got to be a very narrow niche if you think about it...

Not trying to be obnoxious. I understand other RS models really - RS3, TT-RS, RS6...
__________________

2018 F80 Santorini
2019 Z4 3.0i
2022 X2 M35i
Appreciate 0
      06-01-2012, 09:30 AM   #21
NHman
Captain
132
Rep
727
Posts

Drives: 2018 Audi S4 Prestige
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NorthEast

iTrader: (0)

Thank you for all of the feedback and particularly the comments from LarThaL and Hurricane. It is always beneficial to review feedback from someone who has had experience with the specific or similar vehicle.

I would be considered a novice track driver. While I planned to run some, it would only be for the experience and not competitive reasons (I say that now).

I do have another car as my DD, a MY11 Jeep GC Overland. I plan on keeping it for another few years.

I have read a few articles in the last 24 hrs on the RS5. Specifically was the long-term review of both the M3 and RS5 from CAR magazine. There were good points for each but in the end the M3 was favored due to better driving dynamics. IMO, the RS5 is a great package. I wish one was available for a test drive. According to some of the Audi forums, AoA hasn't published the allocation numbers. For now I suspect dealers will get MSRP or higher. This would give an advantage to the M3. While at the end of the production cycle the M3 still has the right combination of style, performance and it factor. Most likely I will stay on the path and order one in December/January for delivery at the Performance Center.

Thanks again for all of the feedback.
Appreciate 0
      06-01-2012, 10:58 AM   #22
mdosu
Banned
No_Country
312
Rep
8,496
Posts

Drives: Double Vanos'd Civic-M3
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (6)

given all the reviews out there, neither the RS5 nor the M3 are leaps and bounds better than the other, given who wrote the review. It comes down to preference in style, overall driving experience you're looking for, drivetrain, and brand.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:59 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST