C&D: "The Best Handling Car In America"

[mkoesel]

I'm pretty sure this test is based on subjective qualities about the way the cars handle, not strictly measureable data.

[Bluesummer]

what did Nissan USA and Chevrolet did to piss off C&D so f'ing badly? Did the head director's wife just happen to have affairs with guys driving those two cars? Seriously, rating is retarded.

[Serious]

Originally Posted by Bluesummer

what did Nissan USA and Chevrolet did to piss off C&D so f'ing badly?

Build worse handling cars then bmw?

You guys should reserve judgement until you actually read the article because im sure it will clearly layout the fact that "handling" has nothing to do with lap times, skidpad numbers, entry or exit speed, or just about any other quantifiable metric.

I don't see how this is a suprise in almost every single review on both the z06 and GTR there are complaints with how both these cars handle. The z06 has always had a reputation for being twitchy, and the GTR is often labeled as numb. Granted as both these cars are being judged down in handling score sheet they usually ripping off some pretty crazy laptimes for street cars but that's another point.

You look at every single review of the m3 from c&d, evo, motortrend, top gear, autoweek etc. and the car is constantly being praising for it's fairly neutral handling.

I don't get why it's such a shock to see the m3 come out on top, I would've been suprised to see the m3 rated behind those cars just based on previous reviews alone, excluding my personal experiences.

[bobbyd1961]

did they test drive the e90 M3 with 19s? because that handles better than the e92m3

[skierman64]

Originally Posted by stingray23

thoses minuses are on point. I'm not a fan of the light steering.

The steering effort is adjustable.

[leo95se]

no way a boxster is better all around than an m3

[skierman64]

Originally Posted by ChinoOrtega

I don't think it's a valid comparison, there should be sub categories, price range, sports cars-daily drivers- GT's, exotics, AWD-FWD-RWD, there's too many cars left out

They are ranking handling, it's very subjective

Originally Posted by stingray23

The difference between the coupe and vert are not gonna be enough to make me think the coupe will be the better handler compared to the Z06.NO WAY. The difference between the coupe and vert on the street is gonna be marginal.

Really? Put 400lbs in the back (and up high) of your Z06 and tell me it doesn't effect the handling.

Originally Posted by FStop7

The GTR destroys the M3 in every performance metric, it's just the way it is. Like I said, 5 minutes is all it takes to make that clear.

It's subjective.

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I'm pretty sure this test is based on subjective qualities about the way the cars handle, not strictly measureable data.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by leo95se

no way a boxster is better all around than an m3

It's not...they were rating handling.

Originally Posted by bobbyd1961

did they test drive the e90 M3 with 19s? because that handles better than the e92m3

Not according to BMW engineers and test drivers. 18s are faster on the track than 19s.

[soberin]

Originally Posted by stingray23

thoses minuses are on point. I'm not a fan of the light steering.

As I have posted numerous times, the steering in my new E90 is the main design flaw in the car. Too light, overboosted, and without the feedback and feel expected. Not in the same universe as my EVO VIII. Really shameful, and well noted by most motoring magazines.

[soberin]

Originally Posted by skierman64

The steering effort is adjustable.

Does not matter. Even at the "sportiest" setting it doesn't have the feel and positive connection to the tires and back through your fingertips that is needed.

[skierman64]

Originally Posted by soberin

Does not matter. Even at the "sportiest" setting it doesn't have the feel and positive connection to the tires and back through your fingertips that is needed.

Well it's not as good as my E36M for sure.

[Montoya]

Originally Posted by Serious

Build worse handling cars then bmw?

You guys should reserve judgement until you actually read the article because im sure it will clearly layout the fact that "handling" has nothing to do with lap times, skidpad numbers, entry or exit speed, or just about any other quantifiable metric.

I don't see how this is a suprise in almost every single review on both the z06 and GTR there are complaints with how both these cars handle. The z06 has always had a reputation for being twitchy, and the GTR is often labeled as numb. Granted as both these cars are being judged down in handling score sheet they usually ripping off some pretty crazy laptimes for street cars but that's another point.

+1

An amazing amount of misinformation here from people that haven't read the article. It is about subjective handling, not absolute lap times. The Corvette and GTR come out ahead on the track in this test as usual, but they loose the comparison because the Z06 leaves the testers guessing on the limits on the street with little body roll and feedback. The GTR is the same and with a flinty ride as well. The M3 looses out to the RX7, Lotus and Porsche because of a tendency to oversteer and light steering. Other factors include seats (Z06 compared to an milk crate for all the support it gives), braking feel and modulation and already mentioned capability for handling well on the track and the road. The Porsche aced all for it's handling at the limit and the ability to get it back in control once you stepped over the line, and that the limits can be explored confidently on the street and the track.

Engine performance and acceleration were not a factor in the results and they specifically mentioned this did not help the M3 since the M3 motor is one of their favorites.

And yes, the M3 was without ZCP, had a manual transmission and 18" wheels for what it's worth (not that there is anything wrong with that...) And he Corvette had the carbon option which gives it ZR1 brakes, suspension, tires and wheels (definitely nothing wrong with that...)

[Montoya]

Originally Posted by skierman64

Well it's not as good as my E36M for sure.

Another article in this issue compares all the M3 versions up to the latest GTS.

The E36 steering feel is ranked as one of the best.

I remember mine fondly as well.

Way back when the E36 was new I think Road and Track had an article on steering feel and the E36 M3 won. One of the tests was a low speed test over a stack of nickles and when the driver would notice going over them. IIRC, the M3 drivers could feel two nickles through the wheel... try that with our E9X..

[Serious]

Originally Posted by Montoya

Another article in this issue compares all the M3 versions up to the latest GTS.

The E36 steering feel is ranked as one of the best.

I remember mine fondly as well.

Way back when the E36 was new I think Road and Track had an article on steering feel and the E36 M3 won. One of the tests was a low speed test over a stack of nickles and when the driver would notice going over them. IIRC, the M3 drivers could feel two nickles through the wheel... try that with our E9X..

The only problems with the e36's steering is that the rack is too slow and the steering wheel is quite large. It has a ton of feedback but im always left wishing for bit faster ratio.

[skierman64]

Originally Posted by Serious

The only problems with the e36's steering is that the rack is too slow and the steering wheel is quite large. It has a ton of feedback but im always left wishing for bit faster ratio.

The wheel size can be changed somewhat easily for a track car. However I like it just the way way it is stock.

[Nautik]

Just got my issue yesterday. Z06 beat everyone out on the track by a good amount including the GTR if that interests anyone.