Official S65 Bearing Specification/Clearance Wiki

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by s85e90

It wasn't too long ago that one (who is well revered here) stated you had to pull the heads to change the cams

That's right, I did say that. I said that because based on my experience tearing down multiple S65's, I didn't think you could get to the timing chain tensioners while the engine was still in the car. I asked a BMW tech back east if that was correct, and he said it wasn't. He said it was a bitch, and a 10-hour job, but with great difficulty it could be done. So I corrected myself and admitted the mistake. (hint, hint)

So you see, I didn't make that comment out of inexperience and lacking hands-on, I said that out of experience of tearing down multiple S65's.

So just curious: have you ever seen the inside of an S65 and how many have you torn down to bare bolts? Also curious if you've seen my S65 photo blog web site and wondered whose hands were doing the work? Lastly, do you ever ask questions or think about what you say before you shoot your guns?

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by regular guy

If that's your sole criteria for automotive knowledge, then so be it. From what you're saying, you're so good with cars that you can listed to a single sound once and know exactly what it is and you never make a mistake and you always have a perfect diagnosis. So let me make this response overtly clear: that's pure BS.

Actually I never said that. What I said was on several diff occassions I have heard an audible pinging/knocking from an s65, and right away you and others said no I didn't... You went on to further say it's not even possible to hear knock,.... Ummm Okay. As stated 100s of times, you don't have to have alot of skills to hear a motor pinging under load to know that that's detonation. Ask anyone!

Here's a guy who needs help identifying a sound. I see you haven't given him the benefit of your expertise. Here's your chance to prove yourself:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=727515


Gimme a break


Why is my automotive knowledge dependent on my car running? Maybe I'm too dumb to understand that connection. I have many running cars. So does that now mean my automotive knowledge has just been amplified by the number of running cars I have? And the one that you and the other trolls seem most concerned about will be running in about 2-3 weeks. I'll be glad when it does, because I need an new injection of automotive knowledge and it seems that's the only way I'll get it.

It correlates somewhat. All you do is talk, talk, talk, and then are very dismissive of others when we CAN ALL LEARN FROM EACH OTHER!! This is a community. Didn't your car blow up 2 years ago??? Okay

Just sit back and listen to yourself for a moment. Nobody is going to take you seriously when you say things like this.



I wish you would go look that up because you'll be spending a VERY LONG TIME trying to find anything from me sounding remotely like that. Sir, I don't think you really want to have this dick slinging contest. I'll be happy to send you my automotive and mechanical credentials in private, but I'm not going to do it in public. I don't think it would be a fair fight.



I don't think millions of people heard your car and told you they heard detonation. So I'm going with A and B.

Millions of people means that milliions have a. either tuned cars from actually listeing for knock. Aren't you older? You should know that..How do you adjust the timing advanced on a fixed car? Don't you listen FOR AUDIBLE KNOCK/PINGING?????? Answer me that?



Here's a very simple question for you. The MSS60 can perform 200,000,000 calculations per second. At 8400 RPMs, that's 178,571 calculations per cylinder per revolution. Even though compression strokes account for half of that, I'll assume the MSS60 is as dumb as it can be and only make timing calculations on the compression stroke. Do you really think the 178,571 calculations per second isn't fast enough to "pull timing" however fast it needs to be pulled?

Take your time. Answer when you've got it figured out.



Are you seriously asking that question? If you're going to claim that YOUR pinging caused YOUR bearings to be damaged, don't you think you need some type of provable data other than your ear?



My bearings were never damaged and I never claimed they were. Maybe you need some reading comprehension as you're all over the place.... What I said was that detonation from a lugged motor (as ours is somewhat torqueless and easy to lug around in higher gears) + thick oil, + tight clearances = bearing failure. IT's a proven fact that preignition will push down hard on the piston top causing what little oil film that is present to be pushed out of the side of the upper bearing shells and show exhibited wear. The Ionic knock system was also in its infancy when BMW started with the s85 and maybe it's not as amazing as its made out to be. So again, I said it is possible to be a contributor to the problem. You can't say the entire issue is tight clearances ALONE when most cars run FINE... The failures are still a MINORITY of cars

I honestly can't believe I'm having a conversation like this.

Me neither




Glad you're done with this. That will be a relief. Oh wait, I see there's more!



I honestly don't know what to tell you. You seem convinced you're the smartest car guy on the planet. Sorry I ruffled your feathers with a reality check. Maybe tomorrow will be a better day.

I never claimed to be the smartest. But as evidenced with your argument with Nick @ ARH you come off as a bully, know - it - all. You're older than most (I'm assuming) yet are always looking for a dick measuring contest or to send someone your credentials ... Get your car running first, no?

What got me riled up???? >>>>>>>>>


All I stated (as others have here in the past) was that I have heard audible pinging/knocking from s65 and it was attributed to bad gas (off brand 93). You RIGHT AWAY got dismissive and said, it wasn't knocking that I heard and it's not possible... How on earth is it not possible to hear a car breaking up under load??? You still never answered that question. Anyone with half a clue on motors can listen to one and tell when it's breaking up from detonating. Why can't I without you wanting me to tear down my engine adn send you pics of my pistons, dick size, resume and degree....... Gimme a break.. Give people more credit.

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by regular guy

That's right, I did say that. I said that because based on my experience tearing down multiple S65's, I didn't think you could get to the timing chain tensioners while the engine was still in the car. I asked a BMW tech back east if that was correct, and he said it wasn't. He said it was a bitch, and a 10-hour job, but with great difficulty it could be done. So I corrected myself and admitted the mistake. (hint, hint)

So you see, I didn't make that comment out of inexperience and lacking hands-on, I said that out of experience of tearing down multiple S65's.

So just curious: have you ever seen the inside of an S65 and how many have you torn down to bare bolts? Also curious if you've seen my S65 photo blog web site and wondered whose hands were doing the work? Lastly, do you ever ask questions or think about what you say before you shoot your guns?

FYI it wasn't you who said that but another one of the "experts" here and others even commented that coming from him it was a surprise to read that. It was about a month or so ago that I wrote something similar and you responded by saying it was you also (when again it wasn't) and that you weren't as mechanically inclined as others here. I ask plenty of questions and read before I speak.

As stated MANY FUCKING TIMES NOW, I simply stated I heard a few diff s65 motors pinging under load in higher gears and it was due to bad gas as once refueled the poblems disappeared. You right away were dismissive and said it wasn't possible. You respond by typing essays but yet still haven't answered the simple question as to how you can't discern audbile knocking??? Is BMW your first venture into cars?

You should re-read this post you wrote and heed your own advice before you dismiss others. As stated we could all learn from each other here. This is a COMMUNITY based forum.

Sadly, every thread you seem to be involved with ends up in a pissing/resume contest.

[chris719]

Can a moderator please ban s85e90 from this thread? RG is posting real data, and we have this guy spouting off about audible knocking with no evidence.

Want to help the cause? Go fill your car with 87 octane and record that knock for us buddy, then see if the DME logged it. Otherwise, GTFO.

[Leonardo629]

Originally Posted by chris719

Can a moderator please ban s85e90 from this thread? RG is posting real data, and we have this guy spouting off about audible knocking with no evidence.

Want to help the cause? Go fill your car with 87 octane and record that knock for us buddy, then see if the DME logged it. Otherwise, GTFO.

Anecdotal statements are data too, you can't lie on the internet, the NET knows.

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by chris719

Can a moderator please ban s85e90 from this thread? RG is posting real data, and we have this guy spouting off about audible knocking with no evidence.

Want to help the cause? Go fill your car with 87 octane and record that knock for us buddy, then see if the DME logged it. Otherwise, GTFO.

Plenty of others have shared the same info. Lets ban them all without hard facts!!! Stupid

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by chris719

Can a moderator please ban s85e90 from this thread? RG is posting real data, and we have this guy spouting off about audible knocking with no evidence.

Want to help the cause? Go fill your car with 87 octane and record that knock for us buddy, then see if the DME logged it. Otherwise, GTFO.

You like everyone else missed the whole point here the point is that if you're driving in audible pinging is heard which is knocking underload then maybe the DME is not pulling it fast enough that's all it could be a contributing factor to the problem we have here and not one person has posted anything specific since these cars have been introduced and yet here we all later.

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by Leonardo629

Anecdotal statements are data too, you can't lie on the internet, the NET knows.

Well no but what fucking reason wouldt I have to sit here and lie to a bunch of strangers. Gimme a Fuggin break.

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by chris719

Can a moderator please ban s85e90 from this thread? RG is posting real data, and we have this guy spouting off about audible knocking with no evidence.

Want to help the cause? Go fill your car with 87 octane and record that knock for us buddy, then see if the DME logged it. Otherwise, GTFO.

Rereading this makes me believe you're 12 years old asking someone to ban me from a thread give me a break

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by regular guy

Here's a very simple question for you. The MSS60 can perform 200,000,000 calculations per second. At 8400 RPMs, that's 178,571 calculations per cylinder per revolution. Even though compression strokes account for half of that, I'll assume the MSS60 is as dumb as it can be and only make timing calculations on the compression stroke. Do you really think the 178,571 calculations per second isn't fast enough to "pull timing" however fast it needs to be pulled?

Take your time. Answer when you've got it figured out.

Originally Posted by s85e90

You like everyone else missed the whole point here the point is that if you're driving in audible pinging is heard which is knocking underload then maybe the DME is not pulling it fast enough that's all it could be a contributing factor to the problem we have here and not one person has posted anything specific since these cars have been introduced and yet here we all later.

I guess you're still working on that problem? Go ask the guys at the other site to explain it to you; see if all of them together can figure it out.

Oh, and I guess all the measurement and pictures aren't anything specific.

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by s85e90

Well no but what fucking reason wouldt I have to sit here and lie to a bunch of strangers. Gimme a Fuggin break.

And yet you trust others lies to tell you about somebody's car and you think it's the truth? And repeating it here, isn't that lying? Hmmm.

[s85e90]

Everyone's missing the point this community it is about sharing information you shouldn't have to back up everything you say we're all here together trying to find a common solution to a problem all I stated was that hey I've heard audible pinging and knocking on several different M threes and right away I was told no you didn't.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by s85e90

Plenty of others have shared the same info. Lets ban them all without hard facts!!! Stupid

I'm not sure if it's possible , but after all this hard words you really need to post a S65 video with this knock, like I said if it's possible for you .
To be honest I'm curious too , to hear this because I never heard this on my S65 .

[s85e90]

What gets me the most is even the manual states you could hear audible pinging are knocking if you use bad gas it's a fact many people can hear knocking from bad gas when the car is under load especially one that lacks and torque such as the M3 get here we are today and I'm arguing with fools on the Internet who said there's no way I can tell what audible knocking sounds like

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by s85e90

What gets me the most is even the manual states you could hear audible pinging are knocking if you use bad gas it's a fact many people can hear knocking from bad gas when the car is under load especially one that lacks and torque such as the M3 get here we are today and I'm arguing with fools on the Internet who said there's no way I can tell what audible knocking sounds like

So you trust the manual when it says you can hear noises, but you don't trust the manual when it says they can't damage anything. Hmmm.

[Leonardo629]

S85e90 stated: I simply stated I heard a few diff s65 motors pinging under load in higher gears and it was due to bad gas as once refueled the poblems disappeared.

I assume he was in those cars when he heard the detonation, whose M3s are those? How many? Why did the owners of all those cars ALL put "off brand" 93 in their cars?

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by s85e90

It correlates somewhat. All you do is talk, talk, talk, and then are very dismissive of others when we CAN ALL LEARN FROM EACH OTHER!! This is a community. Didn't your car blow up 2 years ago??? Okay

Name one thing you've learned in this thread from this community?

And no, it didn't blow up two years ago, or ever. Based on that comment, I know you're a frequent visitor from that site where the collective automotive IQ of all members combined is in the single digits.

I never claimed to be the smartest. But as evidenced with your argument with Nick @ ARH you come off as a bully, know - it - all.

Then prove anything I said wrong with real data. Until you do that, you're all talk. You have no real experience and you provide no real data. If you did, you could prove me wrong.

You're older than most (I'm assuming) yet are always looking for a dick measuring contest or to send someone your credentials ... Get your car running first, no?

You're the only person here trying to prove how smart you are. I'm trying to avoid it because I don't like unfair fights.

All I stated (as others have here in the past) was that I have heard audible pinging/knocking from s65 and it was attributed to bad gas (off brand 93). You RIGHT AWAY got dismissive and said, it wasn't knocking that I heard and it's not possible...

Find that quote from me. I want to see it.

How on earth is it not possible to hear a car breaking up under load??? You still never answered that question. Anyone with half a clue on motors can listen to one and tell when it's breaking up from detonating. Why can't I without you wanting me to tear down my engine adn send you pics of my pistons, dick size, resume and degree....... Gimme a break.. Give people more credit.

You're here bragging about your resume.

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by s85e90

Millions of people means that milliions have a. either tuned cars from actually listeing for knock. Aren't you older? ...

And what was choice #2? Forget something?

Aren't you older?

And wiser.

You should know that..How do you adjust the timing advanced on a fixed car?

Does that even make sense to anybody here?

Maybe you need some reading comprehension as you're all over the place....

Didn't you say earlier that you trust only part of the BMW manual that says knocking is possible but ignored the part that says there's no long term damage?

The Ionic knock system was also in its infancy when BMW started with the s85 and maybe it's not as amazing as its made out to be.

So to fix that, do you think it would require a hardware or software change?

So again, I said it is possible to be a contributor to the problem.

Still waiting for data.

You can't say the entire issue is tight clearances ALONE when most cars run FINE...The failures are still a MINORITY of cars

So much for reading comprehension lessons and learning something from the community.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by s85e90

What gets me the most is even the manual states you could hear audible pinging are knocking if you use bad gas it's a fact many people can hear knocking from bad gas when the car is under load especially one that lacks and torque such as the M3 get here we are today and I'm arguing with fools on the Internet who said there's no way I can tell what audible knocking sounds like

Dude you are wasting your time with these clowns...none of them have a clue what pinging/pinking sounds like otherwise they wouldn't be arguing with you.

My car never ever pings on 99 octane regardless of rpm or throttle opening or load.
However if I switch from 99 octane (~95aki) to regular 95 octane (~91aki) my engine will ping about a couple hundred yards from the fuel station using low rpm and quick high throttle opening. I can induce it at least as far as my home 15 miles away.
I haven't checked how long it takes for the ECU to adapt to the lower octane fuel, but it sure takes its time.

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Dude you are wasting your time with these clowns...none of them have a clue what pinging/pinking sounds like otherwise they wouldn't be arguing with you.

My car never ever pings on 99 octane regardless of rpm or throttle opening or load.
However if I switch from 99 octane (~95aki) to regular 95 octane (~91aki) my engine will ping about a couple hundred yards from the fuel station using low rpm and quick high throttle opening. I can induce it at least as far as my home 15 miles away.
I haven't checked how long it takes for the ECU to adapt to the lower octane fuel, but it sure takes its time.

So what does this pinging/pinking - whatever one may want to call it - sound like? I've had this car for almost 8 years, and I wouldn't have the faintest idea as to what this is. There is so much going on under the hood, it would be great if I could differentiate each. Yes, to a trained ear, it will be easy. But not your average driver like me

[Petros]

Originally Posted by chris719

Can a moderator please ban s85e90 from this thread? RG is posting real data, and we have this guy spouting off about audible knocking with no evidence.

Want to help the cause? Go fill your car with 87 octane and record that knock for us buddy, then see if the DME logged it. Otherwise, GTFO.

[Petros]

Originally Posted by Leonardo629

Anecdotal statements are data too, you can't lie on the internet, the NET knows.

Car companies should save up on the cost of implementing knock detection systems. They should just shove s85e90 under the hood and have his bionic ears monitor knock instead