If M3 comes in too expensive, what would your next car be?

[bullitt5897]

Yea Hans it takes the due dilligence to mod the s2k right many people due like a few days worth of searching and then jump on some marketing ploy for a turbo kit *cough* Love Fab *cough*! Thanx Hans, I am contemplating joining the S2ki forums but I want to lay low and come out of no where with a bad ass setup. I am working on a deal right now for a new one.

[Pretender]

Maybe S5 for me. It's time to have 4wd or maybe an E93 335i with ProCede.

[Next M3]

I will look at the Cayman S specially if it offered with more HP.

[e36jakeo]

I am doing the reverse. I am getting a 335i (in just a couple weeks - finally!) and will add PROcede, LSD, and maybe do suspension and new wheels/tires. If I feel the car, as set up, "feels" like an M3 and still saves me $10K over the M3 (after paying for mods and install) I may just hang onto the 335i for a long while.

If the M3 comes in around 55K (4-door) I may switch to that in 2 years or so.

BTW, I also have an S2K (2001 with supercharger) and it is probably the most fun you can have on 4 wheels on a back road or race track. I think I convinced my wife to allow me to keep it when the 335i arrives, even though we also have a Legacy GT and E36 M3 race car.

[Jimmyz]

If the M is over 60k with MSport, audio, and leather, then I will get a 335xi coupe.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by e36jakeo

I am doing the reverse. I am getting a 335i (in just a couple weeks - finally!) and will add PROcede, LSD, and maybe do suspension and new wheels/tires. If I feel the car, as set up, "feels" like an M3 and still saves me $10K over the M3 (after paying for mods and install) I may just hang onto the 335i for a long while.

You gotta be more clever than than.

You have obviously driven an E46 M3 and you own an E36 M3. The 335i simply has NO sporty soul to it's drive. You can certainly improve its performance with the components you list but will it even feel anywhere close to an E46 M3 let alone what we suspect and E92 M3 will feel like??? You are going to end up with a nice car and fast car but if you want a real sporty feel, and FEEL is your top priority - a fun and inspiring drive - I think you will clearly fail.

[E36325is]

Cayman S facelift with FSI.....

[RussianM3_dude]

Here in Europe, a well equipped M3 will cost the same as a 997S and even a well equipped 997S with power pack is not that much more expensive. So I think probably a 911 then. Considering how heavily policed our roads are, even a base 911 will do fine. Less power but much more of a driver's car.

[mwilli]

I think I am looking more and more at the S5 if the M3 comes in too high.

[mkoesel]

I wonder if the S5 will even outperform a 335i (or xi if you want the AWD)? Already, the 335i will basically match an S4.

[Pretender]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I wonder if the S5 will even outperform a 335i (or xi if you want the AWD)? Already, the 335i will basically match an S4.

Nope. S5 will outperform the 335xi with its V8, more hp, more torque.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by swamp2

You gotta be more clever than than.

You have obviously driven an E46 M3 and you own an E36 M3. The 335i simply has NO sporty soul to it's drive. You can certainly improve its performance with the components you list but will it even feel anywhere close to an E46 M3 let alone what we suspect and E92 M3 will feel like??? You are going to end up with a nice car and fast car but if you want a real sporty feel, and FEEL is your top priority - a fun and inspiring drive - I think you will clearly fail.

Porsche owners say the same thing about E46 M3s. There are quite a few E46M3 owners who switched over to 911 and never looked back. Paraphrase of their word is it is that much better than the M3 in terms of handling and feel. Each to his own. Live and let live.

[madmatt151]

All I know is after reading this post, I really miss my E46 M3 I want to get the new M3, but would like to keep the 4 doors of my E90. I may look into a S2K, I have heard so many good things about it. Also, for 65K-70K you could probably get a 1-2 year old M5 with low miles. That is a good alternative to the new M3. We will see.

[ruff]

Originally Posted by swamp2

You gotta be more clever than than.

You have obviously driven an E46 M3 and you own an E36 M3. The 335i simply has NO sporty soul to it's drive. You can certainly improve its performance with the components you list but will it even feel anywhere close to an E46 M3 let alone what we suspect and E92 M3 will feel like??? You are going to end up with a nice car and fast car but if you want a real sporty feel, and FEEL is your top priority - a fun and inspiring drive - I think you will clearly fail.

Some of the mag writers who have actually drove both the E92 M3 and the 335 say just the opposite. 335 = Sporty feel, E92 M3 = numb on ceter feel with little feed back. One must also remeber the 335 is burdened with run flats. The M3 gets tires built specifically for it's chasis. If BMW didn't treat the 335 like a step child and give it a proper LSD, the M3 would be even a tougher sell than it already is. Oh ya, thats why BMW makes sure the 335 remains a step child. Similar to Porchse's intention to hamstring the over priced Cayman S by putting in a vastly under powered engine and not giving it an LSD. Don't want to impose on the the drama queen, the inferior designed 911. Yet, the Cayman will still out handle 911 even without an LSD. Everyone should try the Cayman S experience before they die. Afterword, most everything else, minus an Exige and a few other select cars, feel like a piggy back ride with an overweight drunk. Those who have piloting time behind the wheel of either Cayman version, know what I am talking about.

[e36jakeo]

Originally Posted by swamp2

You gotta be more clever than than.

You have obviously driven an E46 M3 and you own an E36 M3. The 335i simply has NO sporty soul to it's drive. You can certainly improve its performance with the components you list but will it even feel anywhere close to an E46 M3 let alone what we suspect and E92 M3 will feel like??? You are going to end up with a nice car and fast car but if you want a real sporty feel, and FEEL is your top priority - a fun and inspiring drive - I think you will clearly fail.

The thing is I already have an E36 M3 that is a (somewhat) streetable race car with the ultimate in M-feel, sound, and fury. I also have a supercharged S2000 that is fast as hell and splendid on a back road (weighing <2900 lbs). The 335i fills the role of comfortable, fast, luxurious, good handling family car. I drove it over 1200 miles all around Germany and it is an impressive machine. It will never have the same lightweight and totally connected feel of the E36 M3 and S2000, but I'd argue that neither will the E92 M3. It is simply too heavy now, too big, and will tilt quite a bit more towards luxury than the E46 M3 did.

BTW, I will mod the 335i to bring it up to the basic standards I need, even for the street. I love the feel of having an LSD behind you for handling and tail-out u-turn schinannigans, and having an engine that will make 360 WHP (over 400 crank HP) and 390 lb ft W tq with a piggyback PROcede ain't bad either. I plan on tracking it every once in a while, but basically it will be my fast, comfy, and bitchin' street ride.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by e36jakeo

The thing is I already have an E36 M3 that is a (somewhat) streetable race car with the ultimate in M-feel, sound, and fury

Your E36 M3 must be a heck of a lot more modded than mine if you call it a somewhat streetable "race car". Is it gutted, roll caged, with coil overs and less than 2800 lb???

[kishg]

Originally Posted by ruff

Some of the mag writers who have actually drove both the E92 M3 and the 335 say just the opposite. 335 = Sporty feel, E92 M3 = numb on ceter feel with little feed back. One must also remeber the 335 is burdened with run flats. The M3 gets tires built specifically for it's chasis. If BMW didn't treat the 335 like a step child and give it a proper LSD, the M3 would be even a tougher sell than it already is. Oh ya, thats why BMW makes sure the 335 remains a step child. Similar to Porchse's intention to hamstring the over priced Cayman S by putting in a vastly under powered engine and not giving it an LSD. Don't want to impose on the the drama queen, the inferior designed 911. Yet, the Cayman will still out handle 911 even without an LSD. Everyone should try the Cayman S experience before they die. Afterword, most everything else, minus an Exige and a few other select cars, feel like a piggy back ride with an overweight drunk. Those who have piloting time behind the wheel of either Cayman version, know what I am talking about.

+10 on the cayman s handling and drive. btw, cayman s can be had for significant discounts under msrp so i'm not sure it is overpriced. it's a great car. btw, lsd swap into a cayman s is quite a common mod. look on www.caymanclub.net for more details.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by kishg

btw, cayman s can be had for significant discounts under msrp so i'm not sure it is overpriced.

Hmmm...Interesting. What exactly do you mean by "significant"?

[RandyB]

Originally Posted by E36325is

Cayman S facelift with FSI.....

Might be joining you.

[RandyB]

Originally Posted by lucid

Hmmm...Interesting. What exactly do you mean by "significant"?

10%+ off MSRP is commonplace. I was a little surprised by this, and it made me start looking at them a little more closely.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by RandyB

10%+ off MSRP are commonplace. I was a little surprised by this, and it made me start looking at them a little more closely.

That would change my thinking as well. Worth a test drive at the very least.

Cayman S base MSRP: $58900; invoice: 51392.

at 10% off, the dealer still makes a couple of grand, but I bet Porsche is giving the dealer a better deal than the invoice if the cars are not selling at the expected price.

[ruff]

Originally Posted by lucid

That would change my thinking as well. Worth a test drive at the very least.

Cayman S base MSRP: $58900; invoice: 51392.

at 10% off, the dealer still makes a couple of grand, but I bet Porsche is giving the dealer a better deal than the invoice if the cars are not selling at the expected price.

Lucid
I am telling you, and this is coming from a hardcore M fan, I was susprised at how much the Cayman S raises bar in regards to the total driving experience. Sitting in the cockpit is like wearing a fine italian glove. No car will make you look like a professional driver more than this car. With the mid engine design and weighing in at a feather weight 2976 lbs it doesn't take a MIT Grad to see the handling limits are crazy high. IMO, It is probably the easiest car on the planet to to drive really fast. And you rarely hear Cayman enthusiasts cry out for DCT tranny. The 6 MT in the car is so good I would never consider it with any other transmission. This is one car where you want all the driving involvement you can get. That being said, PAG makes BMW look like a charity organization. Everything is a cost option including Bi-Xenon. The problem with the Cayman, at this point, is they are over priced, take a big depreciation hit, and are egregiously underpowered, especially considering the world class chassis it rides on. The M is a fat pig but is going to be a bargain by comparison and it comes with a Ferrari like motor as a no cost option. Now if they will just base price it in the mid 50s. Anything higher and the Cayman S may be too addictive to stay away from.