M3 (E90) or Audi RS4 ????

[330CIZHP]

Nonetheless, RS4 is a gorgeous car. The technology it used was way ahead of its time and it was indeed a revolutionary car when it came out. The engine in it is simply a masterpiece.

I remember drooling at one when I saw the sweet whistling sound from the engine as it slowly rolled in 1st gear at 20 mph or so.

Originally Posted by Cni2i

Yeah. In retrospect, I agree that you won't mistaken the e92 M3 for the e92 335. But on that note...for you as an enthusiast not to notice the difference between the A4 2.0 and the RS4...wow! From the rear, the RS4 fenders are VERY noticeable with A LOT more bulge than the A4. The oval dual exhaust tips are much bigger than the round tiny A4 exhaust tips. You should've also noticed the integrated rear spoiler from behind as well as the larger rear diffuser. In fact, if I am not mistaken, the only body panels that the RS4 shares with the A4s and S4s are the door panels.

[Jonmartin]

Originally Posted by foosh

Keep smoking what you're smoking, if that is the reality you prefer. A professional driver in a Mustang GT could easily beat an average driver in an Enzo.

Really bad example... Try again.

[Zero.7]

Originally Posted by foosh

Correct, but they also share the roof skin. RS4-exclusive panels are custom fabricated in the Audi GmbH plant, where the RS cars are built in an entirely different plant than any other Audi.

Traditionally, GmbH only builds one model at a time, and they are largely hand-built, which helps explain the less than 1500 RS4s that were available in the North American market over the 07-08 model years.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Zero.7]

Originally Posted by 330CIZHP

Nonetheless, RS4 is a gorgeous car. The technology it used was way ahead of its time and it was indeed a revolutionary car when it came out. The engine in it is simply a masterpiece.

I remember drooling at one when I saw the sweet whistling sound from the engine as it slowly rolled in 1st gear at 20 mph or so.

Don't mean to get off topic, but I noticed that you own a 330ci ZHP. I recently sold my '05 AW 330ci ZHP with manual tranny. It was a fantastic car. I loved it. It wasn't an M3, but it was an absolute joy to drive.

[foosh]

Originally Posted by Jonmartin

Really bad example... Try again.

You really are a bad joke and have lost all credibility with your silly assertions. No need to respond further.

[330CIZHP]

Originally Posted by Cni2i

Don't mean to get off topic, but I noticed that you own a 330ci ZHP. I recently sold my '05 AW 330ci ZHP with manual tranny. It was a fantastic car. I loved it. It wasn't an M3, but it was an absolute joy to drive.

Thanks. It indeed is a very fun car.

[Mikewarlover]

Actually is there much snow down in portland ? If you do get the RS4 if not M3 hands down. It also depends if you track the car or not. I can gurantee most people will be able to drive the RS4 a lot faster around a track than the M3 due to its four wheel drive.

However M3 is a lot more fun since you can pull some controlled powerslide.

Personally i dont like BMW's notchy manual tranny so RS4 wins that but BMW is a lot more powerful and the high rev is certianly an adrenaline pump.

Test drive both and take the one you like better, really can't go rong with both.

[foosh]

Originally Posted by Mikewarlover

Actually is there much snow down in portland ? If you do get the RS4 if not M3 hands down. It also depends if you track the car or not. I can gurantee most people will be able to drive the RS4 a lot faster around a track than the M3 due to its four wheel drive.

However M3 is a lot more fun since you can pull some controlled powerslide.

Personally i dont like BMW's notchy manual tranny so RS4 wins that but BMW is a lot more powerful and the high rev is certianly an adrenaline pump.

Test drive both and take the one you like better, really can't go rong with both.

Actually, the RS4 is slightly more powerful (420 vs. 414 HP), and the M3 engine only revs 200 rpms higher. The M3 is slightly lighter, which is why it has an slight acceleration edge.

[330CIZHP]

Originally Posted by foosh

Actually, the RS4 is slightly more powerful (420 vs. 414 HP), and the M3 engine only revs 200 rpms higher. The M3 is slightly lighter, which is why it has an slight acceleration edge.

Actually, M3 is 300 lbs lighter (according to C&D). I think what he meant by "more powerful" is the fact that M3 dynos 20 - 25 wheel HP higher than the RS4 due to the parasitic drivetrain loss of the Quattro system.

[foosh]

That may be the case on whatever dyno you're citing, but engine HP is rated at the flywheel, not RWHP, and chassis dynos are highly variable. Moreover, the additional parasitic loss is also compensated for, in part, by the additional traction of 4- vs. 2 wheel-drive.

BTW, what kind of chassis dyno is capable of testing RWHP on a 4-wheel drive car?

[Jonmartin]

Originally Posted by foosh

Actually, the RS4 is slightly more powerful (420 vs. 414 HP), and the M3 engine only revs 200 rpms higher. The M3 is slightly lighter, which is why it has an slight acceleration edge.

Its not slight RS4 is ALOT slower then a E90 M3.. I know you're fixated on the 420hp number but their are alot of variables involved hence I said RS4 is more 335 territory.

[330CIZHP]

Originally Posted by Jonmartin

Its not slight RS4 is ALOT slower then a E90 M3.. I know you're fixated on the 420hp number but their are alot of variables involved hence I said RS4 is more 335 territory.

I believe many supercars are slower than your 600+ HP monster supercharged M3.

[Mikewarlover]

Originally Posted by foosh

Actually, the RS4 is slightly more powerful (420 vs. 414 HP), and the M3 engine only revs 200 rpms higher. The M3 is slightly lighter, which is why it has an slight acceleration edge.

I have to say M3 is a lot faster than a RS4 in fact it will walk a RS4.

Heres proof of my statement

Now I would say the M3 totally humiliated the RS4 and plz also rmb that was when both are standard. The M3 will be even faster if it is an DCT.

Four wheel drive combined with the extra weight sucks a lot of top end from the car.

[Nawaaz]

I saw an RS4 earlier yesterday, and I have to admit.....It looked HAWT!

Unfortunately, I still prefer my M3 over it.

The M3 has the performance edge over it, and I also prefer the looks of it.

[Zero.7]

Originally Posted by Jonmartin

Its not slight RS4 is ALOT slower then a E90 M3.. I know you're fixated on the 420hp number but their are alot of variables involved hence I said RS4 is more 335 territory.

Wow. Not again. Although I agree the HP numbers and torque numbers don't always mean a faster and better performing car...but to say that the RS4 is in the 335 territory is just utter nonsense. The 335 actually has more torque than the M3, right? Maybe the M3 is in the same league as the 335?!...now, doesn't that sound ridiculous? In fact, the RS4 was even compared against the M5...and was chosen as the "winner" (I know, that was just one comparison...but it did win).

Again, I know coming on this forum, I would be one of the few RS4 owners. There is no way in HeLL that I'll be able to argue against all M3 fanatics here. And, I don't intend to do so. As stated before, I am NOT saying that the RS4 is better than the M3, but it sure as heck is in a different class than the 335. Now, a chipped 335 can fly, but again, it's not an M3 or an RS4.

[Jonmartin]

Originally Posted by Cni2i

Wow. Not again. Although I agree the HP numbers and torque numbers don't always mean a faster and better performing car...but to say that the RS4 is in the 335 territory is just utter nonsense. The 335 actually has more torque than the M3, right? Maybe the M3 is in the same league as the 335?!...now, doesn't that sound ridiculous? In fact, the RS4 was even compared against the M5...and was chosen as the "winner" (I know, that was just one comparison...but it did win).

Again, I know coming on this forum, I would be one of the few RS4 owners. There is no way in HeLL that I'll be able to argue against all M3 fanatics here. And, I don't intend to do so. As stated before, I am NOT saying that the RS4 is better than the M3, but it sure as heck is in a different class than the 335. Now, a chipped 335 can fly, but again, it's not an M3 or an RS4.

Give it up man I know its sad..

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by Cni2i

Wow. Not again. Although I agree the HP numbers and torque numbers don't always mean a faster and better performing car...but to say that the RS4 is in the 335 territory is just utter nonsense. The 335 actually has more torque than the M3, right? Maybe the M3 is in the same league as the 335?!...now, doesn't that sound ridiculous? In fact, the RS4 was even compared against the M5...and was chosen as the "winner" (I know, that was just one comparison...but it did win).

Again, I know coming on this forum, I would be one of the few RS4 owners. There is no way in HeLL that I'll be able to argue against all M3 fanatics here. And, I don't intend to do so. As stated before, I am NOT saying that the RS4 is better than the M3, but it sure as heck is in a different class than the 335. Now, a chipped 335 can fly, but again, it's not an M3 or an RS4.

LOL, in terms of accelleration my stock ex 335i 6MT could easily keep up with 2 RS4s from 120kmh to 240kmh*(that's more than 150mph ever seen that speed?) through gears. In terms of exclusivity, interior/exterior appearance, no. My E90 M3 will eat a stock RS4 V8 for breakfast







*And yes I live half an hour driving from the German border so no worries.

[bobbyd1961]

Originally Posted by KFPDX

I know I'm in a BMW forum but I will ask it anyway.

I'm going to be buying a used RS4 if I can find one with low miles, or a E90 M3, in a couple months. It will be a second car and not driven daily. Looking for some input on both cars if someone here has driven both.



Thanks

the M3 sedan seats 5. 3 seat belts in the back the rs4 does not. Rs4 not even considered because of that fact for me. that goes for lexus isF

[footie]

Originally Posted by Robin Hood

LOL, in terms of accelleration my stock ex 335i 6MT could easily keep up with 2 RS4s from 120kmh to 240kmh*(that's more than 150mph ever seen that speed?) through gears. In terms of exclusivity, interior/exterior appearance, no. My E90 M3 will eat a stock RS4 V8 for breakfast

My guess is the 2 RS4 you raced were pre-fixed models that were well known to produce less than the quoted output.

Please answer this question, if the 335i is so quick then why has it been comfortably been beaten on numerous occasions by the new S4 with 85hp less than the RS4.

Also, I agree that the M3 is quicker than the RS4 but only a little which all the evidence is even available here on this very forum. Unlike you I have witnessed first hand a race between an RS4 and a manual M3 and though to speeds didn't approach their limiters it was enough to confirm to me that it's BS to believe it's any walkover for the Beemer.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by footie

My guess is the 2 RS4 you raced were pre-fixed models that were well known to produce less than the quoted output.

Please answer this question, if the 335i is so quick then why has it been comfortably been beaten on numerous occasions by the new S4 with 85hp less than the RS4.

Also, I agree that the M3 is quicker than the RS4 but only a little which all the evidence is even available here on this very forum. Unlike you I have witnessed first hand a race between an RS4 and a manual M3 and though to speeds didn't approach their limiters it was enough to confirm to me that it's BS to believe it's any walkover for the Beemer.

The new S4 is supercharged and way more expensive , at least here in EU continental than a 335i, we already discussed that months ago, the RS4 V8 is an atmo with problems with power output, which some of us here didn't believe a year or so ago......and dunno if they were prefixed whatever, one had 440BHP according to the owner(...)My ex 335i was a really really fast one...stock.

My E90 M3 is not a LITTLE faster than those RS4V8s, it's much and much faster also beyond 100mph. But if you don't believe it, I don't care, I'm just stating real world facts.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by Mikewarlover

I have to say M3 is a lot faster than a RS4 in fact it will walk a RS4.

Heres proof of my statement

Now I would say the M3 totally humiliated the RS4 and plz also rmb that was when both are standard. The M3 will be even faster if it is an DCT.

Four wheel drive combined with the extra weight sucks a lot of top end from the car.

+1 and don't forget the twisties when you track your RS4, understeery and dull. An M3 is just in another league 100% more fun on track.: DrJekyll/Mr Hyde thing. , but the interior sucks heavily compared to the RS4's interior.
Build/Paint/Upholstery Quality:RS4 hands down

But if you want a driver's car the Rs4 is no contest to the M3. If you live in a cold/icey/snowy area, just like we do(a few months a year), get some proper wintertyres. No worries. The only playable quattro atm is called R8.

[footie]

Originally Posted by Robin Hood

The new S4 is supercharged and way more expensive , at least here in EU continental than a 335i, we already discussed that months ago, the RS4 V8 is an atmo with problems with power output, which some of us here didn't believe a year or so ago......and dunno if they were prefixed whatever, one had 440BHP according to the owner(...)My ex 335i was a really really fast one...stock.

My E90 M3 is not a LITTLE faster than those RS4V8s, it's much and much faster also beyond 100mph. But if you don't believe it, I don't care, I'm just stating real world facts.

You may feel that the S4 is far more expensive, it appears that depending on the country it ranges from more expensive to almost equal. Point is that regardless of what you or I think the two are rivals in every sense of the word and as such the S4 has proven itself to be much quicker in acceleration which according to the results I have seen it didn't just maintain it's early advantage due to being awd but actually increases it as the speeds increase. These are normal stock examples that are supplied by the manufacturers so either your example of 335i was an exceptional one or the cars you have been racing have being very poor example of the breed.

My point is that I know having driven both the S4 and RS4 that though the S4 is very quick it's not as fast as an RS4 so why not accept that your car was somehow special and stop referring to it as the norm.