Motortrend: M3 Wins Again! Still Benchmark for RS5 and CTS-V

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by MonteCarloM3

ur in the wrong place to not have a fetish for BMW. most readers here want their ego's massaged constantly for their m3 purchase.

Of all the venues I participate in or view, this one is the most densely populated with insecure/fragile egos. Of course, there are a number of folks here who are not insecure, and also contribute actual content. Those folks are primarily why I participate.

I admit that baiting the faithful from time to time is just plain fun, though.

[alito]

I had an M3 until recently (sold it because of unfixable DCT lag issue) and I purchased an AUDI S5 convertible. I had an SLK 55 AMG before and did not want another Benz.
I loved my M3 other than the DCT lag issue and BMW's poor attitude towards customers. I bought the S5 convertible because it was the best option left put there. I have had several AUDI's and have an A4 Avant as well so I felt well with the decision.
I have been extremely pleasantly surprised with the S5. The M3 is perhaps a better "all out" performance car but, for every day driving, I feel the S5 performs better. Admittedly, I did have the M3 hardtop convertible so it was slower than the coupes and sedans you may all have but I am comparing two convertibles.
I have CONSISTENTLY gotten better 0-60, 0-100 and 1/4 mile times AND track times with the S5 that my old M3. Take that with a grain of salt.
I just went to Europe (Portugal) and drove an RS5 over in Algarve and was absolutely blown away. I did not find the steering numb... I founded less pounding and irritating than the M3. It is far more sensitive to the settings than the M3 was.
In my view, the M3 is a great car that does some things better than any other car and all out performance may be one of them but FOR EVERY DAY driving (non track) I do honestly believe the RS5 is a far better car. It does almost everything almost perfectly as opposed to a few things.
I also drove a pre-production CTS-V in Detroit about 1 1/2 years ago and was impressed. It is simply a little to "edgy" looking for me.

[footie]

Alito,

Your opinion of the RS5 seems pretty similar to my own, even your opinion of the steer, that may well be because you also have the 'dynamic steering' setup which is similar to the system used in the RS5.

I did you get to drive the TT-RS when you were there?

[alito]

Originally Posted by footie

Alito,

Your opinion of the RS5 seems pretty similar to my own, even your opinion of the steer, that may well be because you also have the 'dynamic steering' setup which is similar to the system used in the RS5.

I did you get to drive the TT-RS when you were there?

Unfortunately not. I have family there and most are car enthusiasts. One of my family owns a Fiat / Lancia / Alfa / Ferrari and Skoda dealer group in Porto but I was not able to go visit. I would have loved to driven the TT-RS.

I personally find that the opinions of some U.S. car magazines are pre-determined unless the result bias would be blatant.

It is amazing how the character of the car changes from an A5 to an S5 and even more to the RS5. It is one of those cars that you simply will not understand unless you drive it and perhaps drive it every day with previous experience to compare to an M3. The M3 is a great car, but I do agree that the RS5 is a far more mature experience. It's kind of like the M3 is drinking hard liquor and it will definitely get you drunk faster, but as I have matured and learned to experience the small things in life, I prefer a fine wine even though it may not get me there as "fast" but what a better pleasure.

[footie]

^ Alito,

In your opinion as a fellow previous M3 owners who has driven the new RS5, do you get the feeling from that experience that Audi had failed with the RS5?

[alito]

Originally Posted by footie

^ Alito,

In your opinion as a fellow previous M3 owners who has driven the new RS5, do you get the feeling from that experience that Audi had failed with the RS5?

Not even close. I don't want to offend anyone here since some people's egos seem to be directly attached to their M3s, but I find the RS5 to be superior in about 80% of the things it does. I find it to be the bottle of Champagne vs. hard liquor as the M3. Sorry to offend, but, as a previous owner of an M3 and actually EXPERIENCING both, that is my humble opinion. I agree with you Footie

[mkoesel]

All this talk of M3 owners with big egos is just trolling.

You Audi guys are in an M3 forum (you know, where people come to discuss the M3?) and in a thread where the RS5 got its ass handed to it by the M3. There are at least three other tests with similar results.

But it's the M3 owners with ego problem? Give me a break, lol. There is plenty of bruised egos and butt hurt in this thread. But its not the M3 owners who are the ones with issues.

M3 > RS5. Accept it, move on please.

[alito]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

All this talk of M3 owners with big egos is just trolling.

You Audi guys are in an M3 forum (you know, where people come to discuss the M3?) and in a thread where the RS5 got its ass handed to it by the M3. There are at least three other tests with similar results.

But it's the M3 owners with ego problem? Give me a break, lol. There is plenty of bruised egos and butt hurt in this thread. But its not the M3 owners who are the ones with issues.

M3 > RS5. Accept it, move on please.

You just reminded me why I did not read or post in this forum for a while and why I will never buy another BMW. It is not trolling to express our opinions on a car that we have both actually experienced and have owned (M3 and S5 for me) in a forum that is dedicated to a comparison of the cars. Maybe I am missing the point.

Also, I just read the Car and Driver article. Read very carefully, read the statistics and then read the points awarded and see how manipulated the points are. They are unfair (it it's biased manner) not only to the RS5 but to the CTS-V.

I came back to this forum to PS footie on something and just browsed and saw the RS5 comments so I figured I would read and comment on my EXPERIENCE in driving the car, but I guess I should get it from paper instead.

I'm off this site. Have a great day.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by alito

Maybe I am missing the point.

Yes, as further confirmed by this last post.

You're clearly not here to discuss the M3, nor can you accept the results of the multiple tests of the car vs. the RS5.

I'm off this site.

And off the Audi site. Oh Wait. I was never on it to begin with, since I don't care to discuss Audis.

[gr8000]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

All this talk of M3 owners with big egos is just trolling.

You Audi guys are in an M3 forum (you know, where people come to discuss the M3?) and in a thread where the RS5 got its ass handed to it by the M3. There are at least three other tests with similar results.

But it's the M3 owners with ego problem? Give me a break, lol. There is plenty of bruised egos and butt hurt in this thread. But its not the M3 owners who are the ones with issues.

M3 > RS5. Accept it, move on please.

[MJC///M3]

Originally Posted by alito

You just reminded me why I did not read or post in this forum for a while and why I will never buy another BMW. It is not trolling to express our opinions on a car that we have both actually experienced and have owned (M3 and S5 for me) in a forum that is dedicated to a comparison of the cars. Maybe I am missing the point.

you are missing the point....he never said expressing your opinion about personal EXPERIENCE was trolling.....

its the below comment he was making reference too....

Originally Posted by alito

Not even close. I don't want to offend anyone here since some people's egos seem to be directly attached to their M3s

Rather ignorant coment if you dont mind me saying.

You are not offending anyone's ego by any means of the imagination, at least certainly not mine. As an M3 owner, I thoroughly enjoyed reading the review you posted above with respect to your PERSONAL perceptions of each car. I look forward to one day taking a spin in the RS5 myself, as in the end, personal perception and experience is all that matters when YOU are buying the car.

[footie]

What I think Alito meant was he felt that in quite a few things the RS5 did them better than the M3 but most of these things were closely related to refinement and the perception of quality. I think he admitted that on pure thrills and excitement the M3 was still king and was the quicker in the right hands.

If someone's ego was put out of joint by that then they are very insecure.

I suppose it's only when you experience something for yourself can you either say it's for you or not. I openly admit to preferring AWD to RWD but I had to see what the M3 was like to see if I was missing something or not. It is definitely a great car but sadly it wasn't for me.

I would still like to try an AMG at some point to see if it's appeal suits me better but for now I'm happiest with AWD and that means Audi.

[quality_sound]

Originally Posted by MJC///M3

Rather ignorant coment if you dont mind me saying.

He was rather on the mark, IMO. Not that it doesn't happen on all car forums, but in the time I've been on this board, compared to others I'm on, I've noticed a great number of members simply cannot accept that another car might do something better. When the M3 is better that's all that needs to be said. When the M3 gets bested then the "but the M3 will win on the track" or "but the M3 has a usable back seat" or "the M3 wasn't built with the same goals in mind" stuff starts. But oh no, those arguments can't be used for another car.

There is an incredibly hypocritical nature here when it comes to comparing the M3 to another car. I know how forums work. Of course the members are going to have an affinity for the M3 here (duh) but when you're in the comparison sub-forum the egos need to be checked and minds should be opened. Leave the rampant brand-bias and brand-bashing for the other parts of the forum.

We're all supposed to be adults here, right? If someone saying another car might do something better than yours maybe your self worth is tied more closely than to your can than you think. (I used "you" in the general sense, I wasn't speaking to you directly MJC///M3)

[Brosef]

not looking to join the fray, but I just want to offer my opinion about the notion that has been proposed in this thread regarding Audi not trying to compete with BMW with the RS5. If you ask me, that's total BS, and I'd be willing to bet money that anybody proposing that idea now (i.e. after it has lost, which it undoubtedly has), is merely trying to save face from what they expected this car to be before its release.

Not to mention, I find it hard to respect Audi as a brand because of how hard they try to make a name for themselves with their negative campaigning of BMW and Mercedes. Worry about producing a superior product and let it speak for itself. The "Meet the Beckers" series and this infamous billboard come to mind:

[MJC///M3]

Originally Posted by footie

What I think Alito meant was he felt that in quite a few things the RS5 did them better than the M3 but most of these things were closely related to refinement and the perception of quality. I think he admitted that on pure thrills and excitement the M3 was still king and was the quicker in the right hands.

If someone's ego was put out of joint by that then they are very insecure.

I suppose it's only when you experience something for yourself can you either say it's for you or not. I openly admit to preferring AWD to RWD but I had to see what the M3 was like to see if I was missing something or not. It is definitely a great car but sadly it wasn't for me.

I would still like to try an AMG at some point to see if it's appeal suits me better but for now I'm happiest with AWD and that means Audi.

The implication I got from his review was similar to your assessment above, and I commended his review in my prior post.

What got him flamed so to speak, was his posts regarding "offending egos" coupled with his, "I'm never buying a BMW again" as a result of mkoesel's comments. That is a dumb comment, period.

As I stressed in my previous post, and I couldn't agree with you more, in saying that you must experience a car before knowing whether or not it is for you. I'd love to try an AMG myself one day, but I'd probably add an Audi to the garage before jumping to Benz. Again, just my personal preference.

Can't we all get along....these are all fantastic cars!!!

[gr8000]

Originally Posted by footie

What I think Alito meant was he felt that in quite a few things the RS5 did them better than the M3 but most of these things were closely related to refinement and the perception of quality. I think he admitted that on pure thrills and excitement the M3 was still king and was the quicker in the right hands.

If someone's ego was put out of joint by that then they are very insecure.

I suppose it's only when you experience something for yourself can you either say it's for you or not. I openly admit to preferring AWD to RWD but I had to see what the M3 was like to see if I was missing something or not. It is definitely a great car but sadly it wasn't for me.

I would still like to try an AMG at some point to see if it's appeal suits me better but for now I'm happiest with AWD and that means Audi.

Footie, you must be a very patient and emotionally self-contained person in managing to respond in they way you do... cudos!

I have never driven an RS5 so I cant pass on any personal judhement. What I do take under consideration is the 3 latest comparissons conducted by serious magazines. It wouldn't hurt my feelings at all if some (or all) of them took their pick on the RS5 - after all the RS5 is released 2 years or so after the M3. Fact is they didn't and this says something.

I will get to drive an RS5 as soon as it becomes available locally. If and when I do I will post my impressions and I will try to be as impartial as I can.

[MJC///M3]

Originally Posted by quality_sound

He was rather on the mark, IMO. Not that it doesn't happen on all car forums, but in the time I've been on this board, compared to others I'm on, I've noticed a great number of members simply cannot accept that another car might do something better. When the M3 is better that's all that needs to be said. When the M3 gets bested then the "but the M3 will win on the track" or "but the M3 has a usable back seat" or "the M3 wasn't built with the same goals in mind" stuff starts. But oh no, those arguments can't be used for another car.

There is an incredibly hypocritical nature here when it comes to comparing the M3 to another car. I know how forums work. Of course the members are going to have an affinity for the M3 here (duh) but when you're in the comparison sub-forum the egos need to be checked and minds should be opened. Leave the rampant brand-bias and brand-bashing for the other parts of the forum.

We're all supposed to be adults here, right? If someone saying another car might do something better than yours maybe your self worth is tied more closely than to your can than you think. (I used "you" in the general sense, I wasn't speaking to you directly MJC///M3)

Points taken. While its tough to break through a stereotype, I deemed the comment ignorant because there are still some M3 owners out there who do have admiration for cars such as the RS5 (myself included). I look forward to the day I can get behind the wheel of one.

[adc]

Originally Posted by footie

plus the fact that it has arguably the best small FI unit currently on sale that is (believe it or not) capable of being tuned to over 550hp and still prove reliable.

Eh, I choose to not believe this. It's amazing how malleable the definition of "reliable" is on the internet, especially for modified cars.

When I see a 550BHP TT-RS with 150,000 miles on original turbo, engine and transmission, I'll believe it.

[Bunkei]

I'd still take the RS5 in that wonderful blue color. I'll cry myself to sleep over the lost comparison tests, as it truly is the determining factor when purchasing cars.

[adc]

Originally Posted by Bunkei

I'd still take the RS5 in that wonderful blue color. I'll cry myself to sleep over the lost comparison tests, as it truly is the determining factor when purchasing cars.

Well if getting the second best satisfies you, then go ahead. Because you're right, that wonderful blue color is *the* definitive car selection criteria.

[quality_sound]

If you didn't want second best why did you buy an M3? There are better sport sedans available and even more better coupes. Saying that someone that prefers the Audi might be a tad hypocritical.

[brava09]

Originally Posted by quality_sound

There are better sport sedans available and even more better coupes.

Such as.....????