Anyone feel like the S65 has ruined them?

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by ///M3Owner

why not possibly an M4? add in a tune, downpipes, a new intake and you will be set, even though it doesn't have that beautiful V8

we really don't know much about the tuning capability of the new car. again its not about how fast the car is. rather how it makes me feel. i think you were kind of messing my whole point of that.

i feel the new engine will sound awful to be honest. i have never had a thing for I6 engines. although i like the way a GTR and 911s sound with there flat 6 and V6.

there a lot of cars coming to the market within the next 3 years. i am pretty sure something then something will spark my interests.

[///M3Owner]

well I mean the new s55 engine is based off the 1M which was an incredible car, and in my opinion better than the m3, i guess we just gotta wait.

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by ///M3Owner

why not possibly an M4?

Because

[Mdreaming]

Ezio I agree with you whole heartedly. I have a 2013 Le Mans Blue DCT M3 and I too have have been spoiled by the S65 engine and I don't think there are many other cars out there that can compete from on all around performance/DD practicality/performance per $ POV. Also the engine note is so addicting and how it loves to rev. Plus the more I drive my car, the more I love it and the harder it is to think about getting rid of it in a few years.

As far as replacements, I have thought of maybe a new z06 (not sure if the fit and finish it on par with the M), a Cayman S, or possibly a M235i/M2. However not sure how I feel about the FI route with the recent cars (maybe more to go wrong down the road??). If nothing interests me, I may just buy mine post the lease and then look to add to the stable down the road. A GT3 is on my list as well one day.

If you make a change down the road, I'd say go GT3 over RS5. I think the GT3 will be a more visceral experience and a good step up from the M3. Chris Harris went that way! I drove the RS5 once and personally felt it was really heavy in comparison to the M3 and not as light on its feet. Feels like a muscle car :-)

Eau Rouge said it rather well....the e9x M3 is an exceptional breed. Definitely the last of its kind!

All the best.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by ///M3Owner

well I mean the new s55 engine is based off the 1M which was an incredible car, and in my opinion better than the m3, i guess we just gotta wait.

the problem i have with the 1m is its got a very generic BMW engine feel. just another tuned 335i engine feel.

the only thing cool about the 1m in my eyes is its production numbers. other than that its just another turbo charged light weight car. its a very proven formula that any car company can use.

i think we just do not see eye to eye on this debate. theres just so much more to me than how well a car performs. i need the car to sound good, feel good, and look great.

just to put it all out about the M4.

-dislike engine noise. because i now do not care for a 335i.

-dislike the interior - my mother owns a F30 335i fully loaded. i have driven it many times.

-engine FEEL is going to be different. not sure how i will like it.

- i do think the car will look good. although i am not impressed with 4 series. hopefully the M4 looks worlds better than a 435.


there are things i already do not like about the car that is not going to change.

[Mdreaming]

Ezio - what about a 650 or M6 coupe next? Too big?

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Mdreaming

Ezio - what about a 650 or M6 coupe next? Too big?

a M6 coupe is the only M car i would get if i was going to get one. although at that price range it opens the door to other cars. i would try for a R8 V10 at the price of a M6 though.

i think the 650 is a great car. but would get boring as its not a performance car. more of a luxury coupe.

i am not one that complains about size either.

[Darkone]

Originally Posted by Ezio

idk i disagree. the car is nothing special its just a fast sports car. also a mainstream car that everyone wants. its just not my thing. although the Z07 might be a monster. i am also not a fan of the interior. i would rather pick up a Viper over a vette. so many less on the road, V10 engine and looks super aggressive.

Agreed! I just bought mine about 3 months ago. I love everything about the M3!
Parked next to a yellow Stingray the other day. Next to my E92 coupe it looked kinda, how do I put this, plastic?
Vipers are a little rough, drove one before, and its kinda raw especially compared to the M3!

[fbm3cab]

Originally Posted by Darkone

Agreed! I just bought mine about 3 months ago. I love everything about the M3!
Parked next to a yellow Stingray the other day. Next to my E92 coupe it looked kinda, how do I put this, plastic?
Vipers are a little rough, drove one before, and its kinda raw especially compared to the M3!

"it looked kinda, how do I put this, plastic?"

Yes....That is how ya say it! plastic or cheap

More and more cars are starting to look that way. Some of the pics of the M4 strike me as a similar look, but, hey. Im sure it will look great when you get up close and personal.
I also hope the s55 doesn't have that typical turbo feel. I kinda think it will. And I Got bored with that quick.

We know that if BMW doesn't get it right with the M4 at launch they will continue to improve it. When/If they get it right then the M4 could be a lot of fun to step into when we get bored with our S65s in a few years.

Either way...Its all good....

[V8FunNaturally]

Ezio, the 993 GT3/RS is also the only car I would desire and that I consider having all the things I like in the M3. Any other car would be a compromise in view of the M3 total package. I subscribe to your view and all the others posters in this thread. I will readily admit that the 997 GT3/RS is beyond what I am willing to pay for a car (But if I lived in a palace with more money to burn it would make sense). The E92 M3 wil remain the right car for me as you said very well, the new generation is not a breed. It will take several gen to define itself. We already know from numerous turbo engines that they are soul-less (new M5, new M6). I do expect mediatic wooing when the M4 comes out but after one year we'll see if it has any nobility or if it is impervious to the typical turbo engine reliability problems when driven hard on the track. I only need 1 dealbreaker to get a car off my potential buy list. The next M generation has 6-7 already: engine sound, engine character, engine lag unless driven aggressively all the time to maintain that turbo spooling pre-winding they are marketing on the M4 (people complained about having to rev the S65 which I see as a quality, let see them complain about having to keep the M4 in a frenzy driving style to avoid lag), electronic steering, ugly body line on the hood above the BMW emblem, souped up 335is engine, no exclusivity anymore it is no secret that turbo engine blocks are cheap to manufacture, dilution of the M badge ( they now call M- 435i for M package), the only differentiator between the turbos that will invade the market from all brands will be how long before they blow up. Indeed reliability will become the new figure of merits for this new gen of engines (TC is not new, and the last introductory wave in the 90's was aborted when it was found that after you add all the parts to make them reliable they were no better than NA engines. It is true that ECU have evolved but mechanics at the dealership not so much). And issues like carbon build up on the intake valves from crankcase blow-off is a serious issue on direct gas injection cars (M4). The only technology that claims to help with this issue is crankcase blow-off gas filters which are still in their infancy. Then is the issue that the intake never gets cooled with gas and heated up by the forced induction. I see this M4 engine as a castle of cards waiting to fall apart if any components decides to take a break (intercooler, load put on the transmission by the non linear power delivery and CF shaft). Sure the M4 will have some teasers like HUD but who cares and more CF parts as if to make up for the bastard engine. I cannot stop without mentioning the use of transistors (ACTIVE electronic devices) to amplify the artificial sound from a microphone placed in an acoustic cavity. That kind of fake sound does not have its place in a true M car. But of course the M4 engine being a bastard offspring from the N55..

[Powaup]

This reminds me of the Jeremy Clarkson interview where he states that the Audi R8 is the perfect car in every way but it's missing that something that will make you love the car, which is why he own a Lamborghini Gallardo instead. The S65 is pure awesomeness you should consider keeping your M3 FOREVER

[///M3Owner]

honestly I'm just having the same problem with you, thinking towards a car after the current m3. the engine just gets you, and not just that you feel connected and just relaxed and happy. i know what you mean about the m4 probably not feeling special towards you, but in all honesty with all these new cars coming out and all, i even have a hard choice deciding which car i want. I'll be selling my M in at least 2 more years, however maybe you should wait for the new F type coupe to release with a manual, or if you like the automatic, or wait for the new gtr models to release.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by sunsweet

Ezio, the 993 GT3/RS is also the only car I would desire and that I consider having all the things I like in the M3. Any other car would be a compromise in view of the M3 total package. I subscribe to your view and all the others posters in this thread. I will readily admit that the 997 GT3/RS is beyond what I am willing to pay for a car (But if I lived in a palace with more money to burn it would make sense). The E92 M3 wil remain the right car for me as you said very well, the new generation is not a breed. It will take several gen to define itself. We already know from numerous turbo engines that they are soul-less (new M5, new M6). I do expect mediatic wooing when the M4 comes out but after one year we'll see if it has any nobility or if it is impervious to the typical turbo engine reliability problems when driven hard on the track. I only need 1 dealbreaker to get a car off my potential buy list. The next M generation has 6-7 already: engine sound, engine character, engine lag unless driven aggressively all the time to maintain that turbo spooling pre-winding they are marketing on the M4 (people complained about having to rev the S65 which I see as a quality, let see them complain about having to keep the M4 in a frenzy driving style to avoid lag), electronic steering, ugly body line on the hood above the BMW emblem, souped up 335is engine, no exclusivity anymore it is no secret that turbo engine blocks are cheap to manufacture, dilution of the M badge ( they now call M- 435i for M package), the only differentiator between the turbos that will invade the market from all brands will be how long before they blow up. Indeed reliability will become the new figure of merits for this new gen of engines (TC is not new, and the last introductory wave in the 90's was aborted when it was found that after you add all the parts to make them reliable they were no better than NA engines. It is true that ECU have evolved but mechanics at the dealership not so much). And issues like carbon build up on the intake valves from crankcase blow-off is a serious issue on direct gas injection cars (M4). The only technology that claims to help with this issue is crankcase blow-off gas filters which are still in their infancy. Then is the issue that the intake never gets cooled with gas and heated up by the forced induction. I see this M4 engine as a castle of cards waiting to fall apart if any components decides to take a break (intercooler, load put on the transmission by the non linear power delivery and CF shaft). Sure the M4 will have some teasers like HUD but who cares and more CF parts as if to make up for the bastard engine. I cannot stop without mentioning the use of transistors (ACTIVE electronic devices) to amplify the artificial sound from a microphone placed in an acoustic cavity. That kind of fake sound does not have its place in a true M car. But of course the M4 engine being a bastard offspring from the N55..

Nice.

Im keeping my current car then adding an m2 if it does come out AND doesnt feel like all the things you mentioned about the m4. If it does, porsche take my money. Even an older model porsche just to beat the shit out of lol.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by ///M3Owner

honestly I'm just having the same problem with you, thinking towards a car after the current m3. the engine just gets you, and not just that you feel connected and just relaxed and happy. i know what you mean about the m4 probably not feeling special towards you, but in all honesty with all these new cars coming out and all, i even have a hard choice deciding which car i want. I'll be selling my M in at least 2 more years, however maybe you should wait for the new F type coupe to release with a manual, or if you like the automatic, or wait for the new gtr models to release.

wanna hear something funny. i had a love for the E92 m3 for quite sometime. and knew i needed to have one. i haven't had that feeling towards another car ever since( of course not counting exotics).

new GTR might be out of my price point though. it really depends how these next couple years go for what i can afford.

[Linz3]

The S65 is simply a beast engine, which is practically a race-engine, only engineered to live in the real world.

Just the design shows how much work and thought went into it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_S65

Look at the exhaust headers!

It seems to have less inertia than the S54 from the E46 M3, and revs and howls pretty similarly to a GT3, only with a lower pitch. I haven't heard an uncorked straight-pipe S65 in real-life, but I'm sure it sounds awesome.

Spoiled? Definitely.

And it looks that we'll have to wait at least 5-7 years, if not forever, for another normally-aspirated M-engine, as basically all are going turbo for the upcoming releases of M-cars. Whoever has owned any of the last 30 years or M-cars, has certainly been spoiled by the "race engines for the masses" that BMW has released in past. Though the turbo-engines have the "almost-NA" characteristics, and unquestionably good performance, the "something special" is what will be lost.

Enjoy your S65s for as long as you can!

[EvenSteven]

Originally Posted by sunsweet

Ezio, the 993 GT3/RS is also the only car I would desire and that I consider having all the things I like in the M3. Any other car would be a compromise in view of the M3 total package. I subscribe to your view and all the others posters in this thread. I will readily admit that the 997 GT3/RS is beyond what I am willing to pay for a car (But if I lived in a palace with more money to burn it would make sense). The E92 M3 wil remain the right car for me as you said very well, the new generation is not a breed. It will take several gen to define itself. We already know from numerous turbo engines that they are soul-less (new M5, new M6). I do expect mediatic wooing when the M4 comes out but after one year we'll see if it has any nobility or if it is impervious to the typical turbo engine reliability problems when driven hard on the track. I only need 1 dealbreaker to get a car off my potential buy list. The next M generation has 6-7 already: engine sound, engine character, engine lag unless driven aggressively all the time to maintain that turbo spooling pre-winding they are marketing on the M4 (people complained about having to rev the S65 which I see as a quality, let see them complain about having to keep the M4 in a frenzy driving style to avoid lag), electronic steering, ugly body line on the hood above the BMW emblem, souped up 335is engine, no exclusivity anymore it is no secret that turbo engine blocks are cheap to manufacture, dilution of the M badge ( they now call M- 435i for M package), the only differentiator between the turbos that will invade the market from all brands will be how long before they blow up. Indeed reliability will become the new figure of merits for this new gen of engines (TC is not new, and the last introductory wave in the 90's was aborted when it was found that after you add all the parts to make them reliable they were no better than NA engines. It is true that ECU have evolved but mechanics at the dealership not so much). And issues like carbon build up on the intake valves from crankcase blow-off is a serious issue on direct gas injection cars (M4). The only technology that claims to help with this issue is crankcase blow-off gas filters which are still in their infancy. Then is the issue that the intake never gets cooled with gas and heated up by the forced induction. I see this M4 engine as a castle of cards waiting to fall apart if any components decides to take a break (intercooler, load put on the transmission by the non linear power delivery and CF shaft). Sure the M4 will have some teasers like HUD but who cares and more CF parts as if to make up for the bastard engine. I cannot stop without mentioning the use of transistors (ACTIVE electronic devices) to amplify the artificial sound from a microphone placed in an acoustic cavity. That kind of fake sound does not have its place in a true M car. But of course the M4 engine being a bastard offspring from the N55..

I'm quoting this so it's easier for me to find in the future if I want to rant about what I don't like about the new M4. I'll just repost this!

[bluecat]

I'm actually glad to read this kind of post. I'm in sort of the same situation, in that the E92 M3 will probably be my next car, based mainly on the S65 engine. There are a lot of cars potentially worth consideration such as the upcoming M2 or M4, but being that it's looking like those two will most likely be running turbo 6's and coming from a 135i myself they just don't seem that special to me. FI and electric just seems like the way the auto industry will be moving going forward. I want to get my hands on a screaming v8 (and manual) while I still can.

[Need4Speed_Motorsports]

Sounds like you need a 997 GT3 buddy

[jqsmooth]

YES. I passed up a lot of cars for a long time to get this car. Was definitely worth waiting for. Now that I have her, it seems like it's gonna take a whole lot of mula to get something that much better or even comparable. Looks like I'm gonna be sticking with her for a long while, which is fine by me.

[blackmist222777]

its def hard to let this car go… its so enjoyable. even cruising around the car makes you feel so capable. i love this car.

[pbonsalb]

I will be bummed when I get passed by an M4 during a race. I have the usual naturally aspirated mods, but they won't be enough to keep up. Assuming I keep the car I will eventually put a used supercharger kit on it (along with upgraded subframe and diff mounts, coilovers, and new rod bearings). In the meantime, I am building my 550 rwhp turbo E36M3 to 650 rwhp.

[lve2xlr8]

Yes the S65 is a godsend. You nailed it when you said the only cars you can upgrade to would be the gt3 or 458. I had a Corvette Stingray on order but after it arrived I just couldn't bring myself to let the m3 go, even lost my $2k deposit :\

I'm thinking about buying an older s2000 so I don't have to put so many miles on the M. The s2k engine characteristics are actually very similar to the s65 albeit a little over half the power.