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      03-20-2013, 08:13 PM   #67
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Damn!! This thread is messing with my head!! Coming from a 1/2 mile event this past weekend (second fastest M3 in the event with 138.22mph at the half mile), I wonder how fast will a VT1-550 will be at the half mile from a stand still? I'm guessing 150+? No s/c M3's in this event unfortunately.
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      03-20-2013, 08:40 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lenzm3edan View Post
Is there not alot of 08 out there running 600 and 625 kits with no issues? I am thinking of upgrading to the 625 kit at some point but don't want to have any issues, just not sure if upgrading to 585 kit adds any notable power vs the 550 kit. The only plus to the 585 I see is the added intercooler for track use but I don't track my vehicle.
Wow, seems like maybe you were right about the VT2-585 vs VT1-550, they almost made the same numbers on the same dyno!
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=817989
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      03-20-2013, 08:53 PM   #69
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      03-21-2013, 10:52 AM   #70
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Would I have any issues passing a cali smog test with this kit? Do you need to make any modifications to the dct to handle the power?
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      03-21-2013, 11:06 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by sshu View Post
Would I have any issues passing a cali smog test with this kit? Do you need to make any modifications to the dct to handle the power?
No S/C system on the market is 50-state legal.

DCT will handle the power without any issues in current form, even on the track.
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      03-21-2013, 11:14 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
No S/C system on the market is 50-state legal.
How do all the SC M3 owners pass smog in cali then? You can PM your reply if you want. Thanks.
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      03-21-2013, 02:07 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex07M3 View Post
Wow, seems like maybe you were right about the VT2-585 vs VT1-550, they almost made the same numbers on the same dyno!
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=817989


The VT-2 585 dynoed with 20'' wheels so it will make a bit more power if it were running 19'' wheels but not to the point that it blows the doors off the VT-1. I would say 1 car to 1.5 car lenght above the 130+ mark IMO. The VT-2 585 is better for those long hot track days.
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      03-22-2013, 08:50 PM   #74
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why change out the rod bearings? is your car an 08 or 09?
01/08
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      04-15-2013, 12:04 PM   #75
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I'm trying to do some research on the VT1-550 vs VT2-585. Can someone chime in on the intercooler blocking the radiator/stock oil cooler?
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      04-15-2013, 12:09 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSanto View Post
I'm trying to do some research on the VT1-550 vs VT2-585. Can someone chime in on the intercooler blocking the radiator/stock oil cooler?
There's not really any other place to place the heat exchanger, the same location is used on both ESS and VF systems.

This is not really an issue unless on extended track sessions, in which even NA cars see increased oil temps. A larger oil cooler is always beneficial.
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      04-15-2013, 01:03 PM   #77
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So for safe, street application is the 550 a better bet?

My car is an 09 with 50k miles. I plan on running her until about 70-75k until I get a new car.
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      04-15-2013, 01:18 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSanto View Post
So for safe, street application is the 550 a better bet?

My car is an 09 with 50k miles. I plan on running her until about 70-75k until I get a new car.
The 550 systems are perfectly fine for the street, I would definitely recommend one of the VT2 systems if seeing extended track use or the thirst for more power is in the future.
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      08-18-2015, 02:57 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Good eye.
Hey Tom, apologize for resurrecting an old thread and if this has been answered elsewhere, but I am considering a water/meth/alky kit for my 11 M3 that is fitted with an ESS VT1-550

First has this been done before, second what kit would you recommend, and third what would you recommend from a distribution standpoint? injection into each ITB runner? or just one or two jets in the plenum?

thanks
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      08-18-2015, 03:38 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tournapart View Post
Hey Tom, apologize for resurrecting an old thread and if this has been answered elsewhere, but I am considering a water/meth/alky kit for my 11 M3 that is fitted with an ESS VT1-550

First has this been done before, second what kit would you recommend, and third what would you recommend from a distribution standpoint? injection into each ITB runner? or just one or two jets in the plenum?

thanks
Would recommend going into the velocity stacks directly:



We use these for Awron thermocouple mounting, but they will work in a methanol environment also. Most of the top of the top of the line kits will work (Aqauamist, Snow, etc).
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      08-19-2015, 12:11 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Would recommend going into the velocity stacks directly:



We use these for Awron thermocouple mounting, but they will work in a methanol environment also. Most of the top of the top of the line kits will work (Aqauamist, Snow, etc).
Thanks tom, I'll look into it.
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      08-19-2015, 07:08 AM   #82
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Fancy velocity stacks plus a meth system will cost you as much as going stage 2 and getting an intercooler. The advantage of the intercooler is that all air entering the engine is passing through it all of the time. With water/meth injection, it operates only when triggered to cool the intake air, and that added heat most of the time can affect IAT and adaptions.

I would buy an Aquamist and run two mozzles in after the blower discharge. The boost will atomize the water/meth. Simple and effective.

Only if tuning for the water/meth would I bother going to a fancy port injection system. Most people are just using it for safety -- a little cooling and a little octane enhancement, but not actually changing the tune to be dependent upon it. On my naturally aspirated E90M3, I run a Vishnu water/meth system (using Aquamist hardware and the Vishnu Procede controller) with 2 nozzles in the air filter. The Procede is a tune for the water/meth -- reducing gasoline when the meth is substituted and adding timing. I have had no issues in 3 years running this system. On my turbo E36M3, I run an Aquamist system with a nozzle before the throttle body (single TB before the intake manifold) for safety. The tune was not changed. The turbo system has an air to air intercooler and the motor is built. Makes over 600 rwhp on 93 pump plus meth.
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      08-19-2015, 11:13 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
Fancy velocity stacks plus a meth system will cost you as much as going stage 2 and getting an intercooler. The advantage of the intercooler is that all air entering the engine is passing through it all of the time. With water/meth injection, it operates only when triggered to cool the intake air, and that added heat most of the time can affect IAT and adaptions.

I would buy an Aquamist and run two mozzles in after the blower discharge. The boost will atomize the water/meth. Simple and effective.

Only if tuning for the water/meth would I bother going to a fancy port injection system. Most people are just using it for safety -- a little cooling and a little octane enhancement, but not actually changing the tune to be dependent upon it. On my naturally aspirated E90M3, I run a Vishnu water/meth system (using Aquamist hardware and the Vishnu Procede controller) with 2 nozzles in the air filter. The Procede is a tune for the water/meth -- reducing gasoline when the meth is substituted and adding timing. I have had no issues in 3 years running this system. On my turbo E36M3, I run an Aquamist system with a nozzle before the throttle body (single TB before the intake manifold) for safety. The tune was not changed. The turbo system has an air to air intercooler and the motor is built. Makes over 600 rwhp on 93 pump plus meth.
Or just run higher octane fuel.
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      08-19-2015, 11:41 AM   #84
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But additional cooling may also benefit a non intercooled centrifugal. If spending as much on velocity stacks plus meth kit as an intercooler, I'd upgrade to the intercooler. If you just want a safety margin for a little more boost, a 1 or 2 nozzle meth kit should be fine.

Race gas is expensive and is used whenever the motor is on, not just under boost. Meth is way cheaper since it is used only when under boost. E85 would be the only reasonable option, if you can get a tune for it or are comfortable running a mix. It costs no more than premium gas. Unfortunately the nearest E85 to me is 75 miles away. Not practical.
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      08-19-2015, 11:43 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Or just run higher octane fuel.
I too would rather purchase 97+ than bottles of meth.
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      08-23-2015, 02:03 AM   #86
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I appreciate everyone's input, this will not be a track car (save for the occasional club meet). Its really more about the environment it is in 6 months out of the year. Its Hot as f**k in Arizona in the summer time, I really want something that will just assist in the preservation of the engine at higher ambient temps. I am not adding more boost, just want some engine security

My only issue with intercoolers are in this application (remember, not a track car) is heat soak and added lag. Intercoolers will heat soak just as much as everything else in the engine bay when the car is not moving. It will still take a bit if time for it to cool even at freeway speeds. In that application I would assume it could actually make the IAT's hotter for a small period of time.

I do understand that the water/meth kit would only kick on under boost, but I still feel that it would give a much more direct drop in temperature than waiting for the intercooler to cool off to where it is in a beneficial state again (in my scenario given above)

E85 would be a great alternative if I actually had plentiful access to it, its around, but not convenient, much like higher octane fuels.

Any other thoughts? I do realize that maintaining cooling while immobile is a very complex issue to address, so, I do really appreciate anything else anyone has to offer advise or experience wise.

Tom, thanks again for all of the info you shared.
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      08-23-2015, 02:10 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sshu View Post
How do all the SC M3 owners pass smog in cali then? You can PM your reply if you want. Thanks.
find a tech that doesnt care about visual and make sure they dont enter boost and you should be fine on the rolling test (provided you still have your stock cat's and smog equipment installed)
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      08-24-2015, 05:56 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tournapart View Post
I appreciate everyone's input, this will not be a track car (save for the occasional club meet). Its really more about the environment it is in 6 months out of the year. Its Hot as f**k in Arizona in the summer time, I really want something that will just assist in the preservation of the engine at higher ambient temps. I am not adding more boost, just want some engine security

My only issue with intercoolers are in this application (remember, not a track car) is heat soak and added lag. Intercoolers will heat soak just as much as everything else in the engine bay when the car is not moving. It will still take a bit if time for it to cool even at freeway speeds. In that application I would assume it could actually make the IAT's hotter for a small period of time.

I do understand that the water/meth kit would only kick on under boost, but I still feel that it would give a much more direct drop in temperature than waiting for the intercooler to cool off to where it is in a beneficial state again (in my scenario given above)

E85 would be a great alternative if I actually had plentiful access to it, its around, but not convenient, much like higher octane fuels.

Any other thoughts? I do realize that maintaining cooling while immobile is a very complex issue to address, so, I do really appreciate anything else anyone has to offer advise or experience wise.

Tom, thanks again for all of the info you shared.
Charge temps drop almost instantly once the car is moving on an intercooled setup, we can see it on the dyno and/or Awron display to verify.

Replied to your PM this morning, let me know if you have any further questions.
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