BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > M3 vs....
 
Mporium BMW
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-27-2013, 01:09 PM   #111
bruce.augenstein@comcast.
Colonel
99
Rep
2,000
Posts

Drives: 2017 C63
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Manheim, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
Ever been to a dyno? It measures torque and hp at the wheels. Typically all cars dyno in the gear closest to 1:1 which iirc is 5th gear in the m3...
Perhaps a nit, but chassis dynos don't measure torque. They directly measure power thru acceleration of a known mass (with a known rotational inertia) at known speeds.

Proof point: If you don't hook up a sensor to a plug wire to get rpm, you'll still get a power curve, but no torque curve. Getting rpm means you can then calculate the torque curve.

Running the rollers in differing gears will get you similar results, because greater acceleration of the rollers in, say, first gear is offset by that happening at lower speeds - in a proportional way.

Bruce
Appreciate 0
      01-27-2013, 01:27 PM   #112
Black Gold
Major General
590
Rep
5,396
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Texas

iTrader: (15)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
Perhaps a nit, but chassis dynos don't measure torque. They directly measure power thru acceleration of a known mass (with a known rotational inertia) at known speeds.

Proof point: If you don't hook up a sensor to a plug wire to get rpm, you'll still get a power curve, but no torque curve. Getting rpm means you can then calculate the torque curve.

Running the rollers in differing gears will get you similar results, because greater acceleration of the rollers in, say, first gear is offset by that happening at lower speeds - in a proportional way.

Bruce
Fair enough, and good info.

Regardless, for the purposes of a discussion of relative tq between cars, i accept the calculated tq values from a dyno to be adequate
__________________
Appreciate 0
      01-28-2013, 06:52 PM   #113
Giggs
Major
Giggs's Avatar
United_States
143
Rep
1,129
Posts

Drives: R8
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor .:R View Post
If you get an R8 please get the V10... no point in getting the V8 but giggs either way im looking forward to the next project.
Its not always about the power my friend
Appreciate 0
      02-01-2013, 10:02 PM   #114
M3Denver
Lieutenant
M3Denver's Avatar
21
Rep
420
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW M3
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Denver CO

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giggs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor .:R View Post
If you get an R8 please get the V10... no point in getting the V8 but giggs either way im looking forward to the next project.
Its not always about the power my friend
It's not always about power.... But the noise the v10 makes is bliss!!!!!!!!
Appreciate 0
      02-01-2013, 10:22 PM   #115
kmarei
Major General
kmarei's Avatar
Egypt
685
Rep
6,844
Posts

Drives: 2018 Audi RS5 coupe
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Reston, VA

iTrader: (34)

Garage List
2018 Audi RS5  [0.00]
Had this 2012 m3 after selling my MR 2008 m3


Got this


Why?
Because I realized I had more fun driving my e30, than I do in the e92
Ideally I'd have an e30 m3 with a s65
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-14-2013, 04:22 AM   #116
CPWINCH
Brigadier General
CPWINCH's Avatar
United_States
732
Rep
4,635
Posts

Drives: Toyota Prius
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by saildoc View Post
Torque!!! All over the place.
Also better interior feel.
Better looking car I think
it looks like a c300 with quads...
__________________
Follow my BMW instagram @CARMODIFICATION Let me know you are from bimmerpost and i'll follow back
Appreciate 0
      02-14-2013, 08:13 AM   #117
HighandDry
Private First Class
7
Rep
108
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

I love the V8 in the M3.

Everyone here is talking about the lack of torque, but that's not the formula for this car. The lack of torque is made up by the higher redline.

If you don't like that kind of car, then obviously move onto another type- like a Vette.

I think where the M could shine is if it lost some weight.

For instance the M weighs around 3600 lb, torque 295, and HP 414.
The Ferrari 430 (a similar low torque, high HP car) weighs around 3200 lb, torque 343, and HP 483.

So, if the M was the F430 weight (assuming about 10 lbs lost = 1 HP), it would put out 40 more HP for a total of 454 HP. That would make the M much quicker.

Personally, I love the relatively low torque/high HP cars like the GT3, F430, etc. There's nothing like making a car sing in those high revs. Probably one of the reasons I found the Turbo so boring.

Last edited by HighandDry; 02-14-2013 at 08:27 AM..
Appreciate 0
      02-14-2013, 09:57 AM   #118
Dre01SS
First Lieutenant
Dre01SS's Avatar
United_States
39
Rep
346
Posts

Drives: 2007 Corvette Z06
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2007 E92 335i  [0.00]
I must say... after looking, debating, and figuring out which one would be the best fit - I made my decision and found the right deal to seal it.

I found it rather ironic that given my 2 choices, I ended up going to a BMW dealership to pick her up...

__________________
"Its only after we’ve lost everything that we’re free to do anything"
Current: 2007 Corvette Z06 (DD/HPDE)
Past: 2012 MazdaSpeed 3, 2007 BMW 335i E92 - 2001 Corvette Z06 - 2001 Camaro SS - 2007 CBR 600RR - 2003 CBR 600RR Racebike - 2001 CBR F4i
Appreciate 0
      02-14-2013, 11:35 PM   #119
Giggs
Major
Giggs's Avatar
United_States
143
Rep
1,129
Posts

Drives: R8
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dre01SS
I must say... after looking, debating, and figuring out which one would be the best fit - I made my decision and found the right deal to seal it.

I found it rather ironic that given my 2 choices, I ended up going to a BMW dealership to pick her up...

Appreciate 0
      02-15-2013, 02:25 AM   #120
Nordstat
Lieutenant
United_States
36
Rep
529
Posts

Drives: 2014 Porsche 911 Turbo S
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
Ever been to a dyno? It measures torque and hp at the wheels. Typically all cars dyno in the gear closest to 1:1 which iirc is 5th gear in the m3...
Perhaps a nit, but chassis dynos don't measure torque. They directly measure power thru acceleration of a known mass (with a known rotational inertia) at known speeds.

Proof point: If you don't hook up a sensor to a plug wire to get rpm, you'll still get a power curve, but no torque curve. Getting rpm means you can then calculate the torque curve.

Running the rollers in differing gears will get you similar results, because greater acceleration of the rollers in, say, first gear is offset by that happening at lower speeds - in a proportional way.

Bruce
^ YES!!!
__________________
2014 Porsche 911 Turbo S - FOR SALE
2010 BMW M3 (e90) - SOLD
2005 Corvette C6 - SOLD
Appreciate 0
      02-16-2013, 10:15 PM   #121
Giggs
Major
Giggs's Avatar
United_States
143
Rep
1,129
Posts

Drives: R8
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (5)

It arrived! Heres why i left

http://youtu.be/hZnzyFe8w50
Appreciate 0
      02-16-2013, 11:47 PM   #122
HighandDry
Private First Class
7
Rep
108
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Very nice! Congrats!

Your'e going to need a more practical car for daily driving, so you might as well get your M3 back
Appreciate 0
      02-17-2013, 12:10 AM   #123
Giggs
Major
Giggs's Avatar
United_States
143
Rep
1,129
Posts

Drives: R8
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighandDry
Very nice! Congrats!

Your'e going to need a more practical car for daily driving, so you might as well get your M3 back
Thanks! I have a daily, unfortunately its not an M3. Im M3 all the way at heart tho, still cruisin with my M boys
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2013, 11:40 AM   #124
M3takesNYC
Banned
19
Rep
426
Posts

Drives: m3
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

Guessing this is a v8? If it is I don't see the "upgrade" as the performance between this and the m3 is non-existent or neglible. Now if it was for simply looks than I totally get it. Or if its a V-10 than forget I said anything!

Also why would he need another daily driver? I don't get those comments as why would you not drive an R8 daily?

If I had a Zonda or something crazy than sure but even a ferrari I would daily drive. Why not?
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2013, 11:59 AM   #125
Giggs
Major
Giggs's Avatar
United_States
143
Rep
1,129
Posts

Drives: R8
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3takesNYC
Guessing this is a v8? If it is I don't see the "upgrade" as the performance between this and the m3 is non-existent or neglible. Now if it was for simply looks than I totally get it. Or if its a V-10 than forget I said anything!

Also why would he need another daily driver? I don't get those comments as why would you not drive an R8 daily?

If I had a Zonda or something crazy than sure but even a ferrari I would daily drive. Why not?
Yes its a v8. Im not a 0-60 guy, nor do i care about racing stoplight to stoplight. From a performance perspective it definitely feels faster than the M3, even tho i know its not. If you've driven one you know what I mean. The AWD allows for no tire spin off the line which i like more bc i dont have to worry about tire spin like I did on the RWD M. The r8 also feels way more planted and hugs the road so nicely. I came from a supercharged M3 and from a driveability standpoint, i much prefer the R8. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion though.

Regarding looks, this car has gotten more attention in the last 2 days than my M3 got in a year (ive been driving it a lot since Friday). The r8 draws camera phones everywhere, and Ive gotten the same amount of attention from women as from men, young and old, while driving or parked. Its spurred multiple coversations at gas stations and other stores, and when people inside stores see it pull up they come out and stare at the car. I actually didnt expect to get that much attention and have almost been hit twice while driving already from people trying to catch up and take pictures of the car. Its crazy! I like that it puts a smile on people's faces.

Last edited by Giggs; 02-18-2013 at 12:13 PM..
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2013, 01:28 PM   #126
W///
Lieutenant General
W///'s Avatar
7433
Rep
12,291
Posts

Drives: F82GTS, E36/E92M3, Z4M
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SC

iTrader: (13)

Quote:
Originally Posted by krnnerdboy View Post
If they really wanted to keep the "gem" they could've saved a lot of money by just adding direct injection. Exactly what gm is doing with there ls3....
It's not coincidence that I don't want any of my cars to be DI. Thus why the next car I'll add to the M3 will be a 997.1 Turbo. At this point, I have no interest in dealing with carbon build up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
Had this 2012 m3 after selling my MR 2008 m3


Got this


Why?
Because I realized I had more fun driving my e30, than I do in the e92
Ideally I'd have an e30 m3 with a s65
An E30 with an S65 completely defeats the purpose of having an E30 M3 in the first place. It's all about balance.

Having said that, she's beautiful. I need to get my E30 back on the road. It's just such a classic look.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giggs View Post
Yes its a v8. Im not a 0-60 guy, nor do i care about racing stoplight to stoplight. From a performance perspective it definitely feels faster than the M3, even tho i know its not. If you've driven one you know what I mean. The AWD allows for no tire spin off the line which i like more bc i dont have to worry about tire spin like I did on the RWD M. The r8 also feels way more planted and hugs the road so nicely. I came from a supercharged M3 and from a driveability standpoint, i much prefer the R8. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion though.

Regarding looks, this car has gotten more attention in the last 2 days than my M3 got in a year (ive been driving it a lot since Friday). The r8 draws camera phones everywhere, and Ive gotten the same amount of attention from women as from men, young and old, while driving or parked. Its spurred multiple coversations at gas stations and other stores, and when people inside stores see it pull up they come out and stare at the car. I actually didnt expect to get that much attention and have almost been hit twice while driving already from people trying to catch up and take pictures of the car. Its crazy! I like that it puts a smile on people's faces.
Are you worried about carbon build up at all? I love the way these things look, nothing like it out there. Congrats!
__________________
Current:
16 F82 M4 GTS, Black Sapphire/Black, DCT
08 E92 M3, Sparkling Graphite/Bamboo Beige, 6MT
07 E85 Z4M Roadster, Alpine White/Red, 6MT
99 E36 M3, Techno Violet/Dove Grey, 6MT
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2013, 01:30 PM   #127
badazzm
Lieutenant
badazzm's Avatar
India
21
Rep
536
Posts

Drives: RRS GT2
Join Date: May 2012
Location: San Jose, CA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giggs View Post
Yes its a v8. Im not a 0-60 guy, nor do i care about racing stoplight to stoplight. From a performance perspective it definitely feels faster than the M3, even tho i know its not. If you've driven one you know what I mean. The AWD allows for no tire spin off the line which i like more bc i dont have to worry about tire spin like I did on the RWD M. The r8 also feels way more planted and hugs the road so nicely. I came from a supercharged M3 and from a driveability standpoint, i much prefer the R8. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion though.

Regarding looks, this car has gotten more attention in the last 2 days than my M3 got in a year (ive been driving it a lot since Friday). The r8 draws camera phones everywhere, and Ive gotten the same amount of attention from women as from men, young and old, while driving or parked. Its spurred multiple coversations at gas stations and other stores, and when people inside stores see it pull up they come out and stare at the car. I actually didnt expect to get that much attention and have almost been hit twice while driving already from people trying to catch up and take pictures of the car. Its crazy! I like that it puts a smile on people's faces.
Yep. This car is chick magnet compared to the M3 which is a dude magnet. Dad just got one and I drove it to Starbucks to meet up with some friends. I was 20 mins late because I was answering questions from a group of 5 girls sitting outside Starbucks that saw me rolling in with this beast! Too bad I have a gf that I don't plan to cheat on! Lol.
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2013, 02:35 PM   #128
M3takesNYC
Banned
19
Rep
426
Posts

Drives: m3
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

I am not saying you should not have gotten it, clearly you have your reasons and your happiness is all that matters!

I am assuming you are a car guy and know everything about these audi V8's in your car and the past RS4 and current RS5 but if you got yours used I would immediatly get a carbon cleaning of the valves. These things lose power like there is no tomorrow with carbon build up and even brand new seem to dyno quite low. So to keep the power at its best definetly get a carbon cleaning every 10-15k.

The S65 is just such a better engine I would have a very hard time going to an audi with that V8 only because it really does not make stated power and carbon build up is terrible. Even the new RS5 with "450hp" is putting down nowhere near that and is putting out 350 to the wheels. Something about those FSI 4.2 L V8's just don't seem to put out what they are rated

But I admit its the sweetest looking and sounding car so you definetly made a great choice given your criteria!
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2013, 04:04 PM   #129
Giggs
Major
Giggs's Avatar
United_States
143
Rep
1,129
Posts

Drives: R8
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3takesNYC
I am not saying you should not have gotten it, clearly you have your reasons and your happiness is all that matters!

I am assuming you are a car guy and know everything about these audi V8's in your car and the past RS4 and current RS5 but if you got yours used I would immediatly get a carbon cleaning of the valves. These things lose power like there is no tomorrow with carbon build up and even brand new seem to dyno quite low. So to keep the power at its best definetly get a carbon cleaning every 10-15k.

The S65 is just such a better engine I would have a very hard time going to an audi with that V8 only because it really does not make stated power and carbon build up is terrible. Even the new RS5 with "450hp" is putting down nowhere near that and is putting out 350 to the wheels. Something about those FSI 4.2 L V8's just don't seem to put out what they are rated

But I admit its the sweetest looking and sounding car so you definetly made a great choice given your criteria!
Thanks for the tip on the carbon build up! Its definitely something Ive heard about and will keep an eye on. The car sure is a blast, and having to deal with a few more issues comes with car ownership in my opinion. Thankfully Im able to have another car in the event it goes down for repair. Also, I bought a premium warranty to cover it for the next 6 years and 60,000 more miles. Call me paranoid but I like peace of mind
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2013, 04:05 PM   #130
Giggs
Major
Giggs's Avatar
United_States
143
Rep
1,129
Posts

Drives: R8
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by badazzm
Yep. This car is chick magnet compared to the M3 which is a dude magnet. Dad just got one and I drove it to Starbucks to meet up with some friends. I was 20 mins late because I was answering questions from a group of 5 girls sitting outside Starbucks that saw me rolling in with this beast! Too bad I have a gf that I don't plan to cheat on! Lol.
Haha nice! I bet you'll ask to drive it more often. Im engaged and would not consider cheating on my girl as well. But it doesnt hurt to tease those girls just like they tease us! Lol
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2013, 07:47 PM   #131
HighandDry
Private First Class
7
Rep
108
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3takesNYC View Post
Guessing this is a v8? If it is I don't see the "upgrade" as the performance between this and the m3 is non-existent or neglible. Now if it was for simply looks than I totally get it. Or if its a V-10 than forget I said anything!

Also why would he need another daily driver? I don't get those comments as why would you not drive an R8 daily?

If I had a Zonda or something crazy than sure but even a ferrari I would daily drive. Why not?
Practicality, actual cost of item, maintenance cost, and re-sale value.

Driving a Ferrari daily is a PITA. I love mine, but it's not a practical car. Also, you really don't get the joy of driving that car in a 5 mile work commute.

You ever get door dings? Sorry, but with the amount that the Ferrari cost, I'm not really comfortable parking it in the Whole Foods parking lot The Ferrari is a luxury item. It's not just a car.

The other thing is the high maintenance cost. When something goes wrong with the Ferrari, it's a lot of money. The clutch only lasts 10-15K miles and that's 6 grand right there.

The last thing is re-sale value. Put those miles on and it's worth a lot less if you want to sell it later.

Upgrade is not just tied to performance.
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2013, 09:08 PM   #132
Bx Tpr
Captain
Bx Tpr's Avatar
123
Rep
891
Posts

Drives: 23 CSL
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NY

iTrader: (8)

Sold my '11 E90 M to see if I can go back to driving domestic muscle cars. Bought a 392 Challenger SRT8 and regretted my decision almost immediately. Sold the the chally, bought a beater and just picked up a '13 Melbourne Red E92 M3 and will never buy another domestic car as long as I live.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:49 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST