Death by Rod Bearings (again)

[Rupes]

I've accepted that the truth about bearings lies somewhere in the middle of the extremes found on these forums. Does the problem exist? Yes. Is it likely to happen to me in the first 100k miles of ownership? No.

With proper care, you have a much greater likelihood of reaching 100k miles with no engine failure than with engine failure. So, I guess all I can do is roll the dice. I figure the odds are on my side, and I love this car and engine too much right now to make a switch! If symptoms present themselves, then I'll have the bearings replaced. If not, then I'm going to continue living my life. Not much else that you can do.

[ellekz]

Originally Posted by vsix

I have a very good friend at BMW Service and he told me by all the S65's he had for service NONE of them EVER had these rod bearing caused failure's.

I'm sorry, but I disagree. Your friend is either not aware or they simply don't get that many M3s in their shop.
When the first engine blew up, I called BMWs mobility service (sort of like AAA, but provided by BMW, they usually drive in X5s full of computers and the most common spare parts that might break) and I didn't even need to finish describing what happened, they service tech on the phone already said it's very much sounds like the common M3 rod problem.

I do agree however that's it seems unlikely your engine is gonna blow, at least I hope so. But I still think the number of blown engines is above the norm.

It seems like people on here were operating under the assumption that the OP's engines blew shortly after driving a brand new car off the lot.

I'm sorry for the confusion. I updated the post. I wanted to keep the post short, so I didn't get into all the details from the first thread. I just thought it was clear it was a used car, since the E92 M3 is not being built anymore and also driving 250+ with a brand new engine would not be something anyone sane would do I've also mentioned the engine's 45k mileage, so I didn't think anyone would assume the car was brand new.

I also wanted to clarify that I do not think the car was being rebuilt in that shady Dutch area/garage. Like I wrote earlier, the car did not have any signs of shady craftsmanship, on the contrary. There are no missing parts and no parts from third party manufacturers, everything's OEM. The car drove and handled top notch (aside from the blown engine of course, lol).

[squartus]

This is not some rare problem, hell my bearings where shot to shit at 31k when I went ahead and switched them out when I had a SC installed. Several were worn through the copper, at 31K!!!.
Been more than one engine blown at 6k, huge threads full of people with spun bearings blow engines super worn bearings when they changed them. In many cases it shows no symptoms before the engine goes as well, I promise you if all m3 owners cracked open their engine a great deal would show massive bearing wear.
As the cars get older and more miles are put on them you can expect to see even greater numbers of blown engines. If I would not of just went ahead and switched mine I would of lost my engine at 60k if not sooner and im just some random dude.
How many others are sitting on the same problem and are unaware??
Don't stick your head in the sand, its 2k for new upgraded rod bolts and WPC bearings installed to save a 20k engine. People spend that much on a useless front spoiler that will just get cracked.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by vsix

Alter Schlappen....Sorry to hear that! Hmmm...it look's like all these fail's do happen while driving the car at "higher" speed's. Wow...could you please explain what RPM's you had when you felt something went wrong?
At least that way you can help other user's to prevent their engine failure's.

Let me put it this way:
Only because it say's in your cluster 8-9k RPM doesn't mean you can really hit it without any consequences!
For me, even it is a M-machine, it's still a burbling V8 and V8's have their comfort zone in lower region's. Only because the fact, german engineer's managed and finally allowed you to rocket these engine's into beyond possible high RPM areas, doesn't also mean these car's actually like to be reved that high.
As for me, my car won't see past 5k ...screw everything else what they say, high reving motor and all that jazz? V8 is a V8!

[e92ben]

Let your car warm up when it's cold lol.

[ellekz]

Originally Posted by e92ben

Let your car warm up when it's cold lol.

I'm just gonna quote myself from before:

Originally Posted by ellekz

I'm always very cautious about RPMs etc. when the engine is still cold. I always make sure only the best liquids and oils are used and that the oil level etc. is correct. Every car I've owned I treated it like my baby and have never ever experienced any issues related to user error, let alone two blown engines in one vehicle.
Even when the engine is all warmed up, I very rarely go over 5-6k RPM. And when I did, I damn well made sure everything is at optimum operating temperature and well lubed.

[Rupes]

^ kind of moot what precautions you take if the previous owner didn't do the same, right? That's the problem, you just never know how a used car was treated. Who knows though, maybe you'll get a brand spanking new engine this time around.

[Petros]

Originally Posted by Rupes

^ kind of moot what precautions you take if the previous owner didn't do the same, right? That's the problem, you just never know how a used car was treated. Who knows though, maybe you'll get a brand spanking new engine this time around.

I don't think so. I don't even know if it's possible to get a new engine. I believe all you can get from BMW for a whopping $18k is some refurbished engine. Some members who had engines replaced said they got a refurbished engine not a brand new one. If I was paying out of pocket I'd much rather get a Dinan engine instead, which is actually rebuilt to a better standard than what BMW does, including better rod bearing clearances. And on top of that you get an extra 0.2 L of displacement.

[e92ben]

Originally Posted by ellekz

I'm just gonna quote myself from before:

I just just teasin ya!

[modkrazy]

Originally Posted by vsix

Alter Schlappen....Sorry to hear that! Hmmm...it look's like all these fail's do happen while driving the car at "higher" speed's. Wow...could you please explain what RPM's you had when you felt something went wrong?
At least that way you can help other user's to prevent their engine failure's.

Let me put it this way:
Only because it say's in your cluster 8-9k RPM doesn't mean you can really hit it without any consequences!
For me, even it is a M-machine, it's still a burbling V8 and V8's have their comfort zone in lower region's. Only because the fact, german engineer's managed and finally allowed you to rocket these engine's into beyond possible high RPM areas, doesn't also mean these car's actually like to be reved that high.
As for me, my car won't see past 5k ...screw everything else what they say, high reving motor and all that jazz? V8 is a V8!

You bought an M3 and will never push it past 5k RPM? Poser. Your car deserves better than a limp-wristed pussy. Sell it so someone with more balls can drive it. Like your grandma.

[modkrazy]

Originally Posted by Petros

I don't think so. I don't even know if it's possible to get a new engine. I believe all you can get from BMW for a whopping $18k is some refurbished engine. Some members who had engines replaced said they got a refurbished engine not a brand new one. If I was paying out of pocket I'd much rather get a Dinan engine instead, which is actually rebuilt to a better standard than what BMW does, including better rod bearing clearances. And on top of that you get an extra 0.2 L of displacement.

Without a core charge refund, that Dinan stroker is like 45 grand. At that point may as well swap in an S85.

[e92zero]

Really sorry for the OP and hope everything works out.

Originally Posted by modkrazy

Without a core charge refund, that Dinan stroker is like 45 grand. At that point may as well swap in an S85.

Just wondering where did you get 45 grand from? I checked the Dinan website, the stroker without core is $36. With Core it's only $26k. It seem to include software too. Did I miss the numbers? Is it actually that bad a price consider you get pretty much a brand new engines with 4.6L? I wonder what's the price on other strokers out there with the full package. Sorry for the threadjack.

[Sephiroth]

What a horrible situation! I would be absolutely furious if i was going through this. Good luck OP!

[K-M3]

Originally Posted by 4corners

"Engine of the Year!" How about, engine FOR a year!

lol!!! nice one....

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by modkrazy

Without a core charge refund, that Dinan stroker is like 45 grand. At that point may as well swap in an S85.

S85 is having worse bearing issues. The Dinan stroker at least corrects the problem areas :P

[K-M3]

Originally Posted by Rupes

I've accepted that the truth about bearings lies somewhere in the middle of the extremes found on these forums. Does the problem exist? Yes. Is it likely to happen to me in the first 100k miles of ownership? No.

With proper care, you have a much greater likelihood of reaching 100k miles with no engine failure than with engine failure. So, I guess all I can do is roll the dice. I figure the odds are on my side, and I love this car and engine too much right now to make a switch! If symptoms present themselves, then I'll have the bearings replaced. If not, then I'm going to continue living my life. Not much else that you can do.

That's very zen of u !!! pretty much what I decided my approach is gonna be once I hit 50K miles and am out of warranty. monitor metal trends on oil reports, change oil every 7 to 8 K miles and if the oil analysis trends show an imminent problem, then replace bearings with WPC treated ones and ARP rod bolts.

Like u said, pretty much nothing else can be done about this. My initial oil analysis is not too bad on a 30K mile car with a 14K mileage on my last oil change. funny blackstone reported that given my model year (02/2012 with a 12/2011 build), my car had "aluminium bearings". wonder what that means. lead is at zero with minimally elevated iron and copper. will see what the next oil analysis is at 37-38K miles.......

Thanks for your attitude..... helps keep the hysteria at bay.......$2K aint a lot but it still is pretty good cash

[K-M3]

Originally Posted by Petros

I don't think so. I don't even know if it's possible to get a new engine. I believe all you can get from BMW for a whopping $18k is some refurbished engine. Some members who had engines replaced said they got a refurbished engine not a brand new one. If I was paying out of pocket I'd much rather get a Dinan engine instead, which is actually rebuilt to a better standard than what BMW does, including better rod bearing clearances. And on top of that you get an extra 0.2 L of displacement.

+1

[modkrazy]

Originally Posted by K-M3

That's very zen of u !!! pretty much what I decided my approach is gonna be once I hit 50K miles and am out of warranty. monitor metal trends on oil reports, change oil every 7 to 8 K miles and if the oil analysis trends show an imminent problem, then replace bearings with WPC treated ones and ARP rod bolts.

Like u said, pretty much nothing else can be done about this. My initial oil analysis is not too bad on a 30K mile car with a 14K mileage on my last oil change. funny blackstone reported that given my model year (02/2012 with a 12/2011 build), my car had "aluminium bearings". wonder what that means. lead is at zero with minimally elevated iron and copper. will see what the next oil analysis is at 37-38K miles.......

Thanks for your attitude..... helps keep the hysteria at bay.......$2K aint a lot but it still is pretty good cash

Your car has lead-free bearings, so it will always read 0. Unfortunately this makes it hard to keep track of wear, since lead was the soft metal that was a sure sign of excessive wear.

[e92zero]

Originally Posted by modkrazy

Your car has lead-free bearings, so it will always read 0. Unfortunately this makes it hard to keep track of wear, since lead was the soft metal that was a sure sign of excessive wear.

I have the led free bearings too and as you said, the BS report really won't show anything abnormal. I kept an eye on my oil pressure, coolant temp, and oil temp and when I saw the oil pressure dropping and the temps creeping up, I decided it was time to change the bearings.

[K-M3]

I knowww!!!! More reasons to mind fuck myself with this ..... Was planning on monitoring the copper/iron trends . Car's under warranty till 50K. If shit blows before that , it's on BMW ( one of the reasons I haven't modded it .... Yet). I should have at least 3 to 4 additional oil analyses by then. If the trend is towards increased wear metals related to bearings, then new bearings go in at about 50 to 60 K mileage .... All the more reason for a road trip out west to EAS with a detour into vegas ;-))

[K-M3]

Originally Posted by e92zero

I have the led free bearings too and as you said, the BS report really won't show anything abnormal. I kept an eye on my oil pressure, coolant temp, and oil temp and when I saw the oil pressure dropping and the temps creeping up, I decided it was time to change the bearings.

What about aluminium and copper trends ?? Shouldn't those indicate something??

[e92zero]

Originally Posted by K-M3

What about aluminium and copper trends ?? Shouldn't those indicate something??

My latest report had aluminum at 2, iron at 7, and copper at 1. Nothing in my report stood out. In the 3 previous oil changes, aluminum has been dropping from 5, iron has been the same (typical of M1 0-40), copper has been the same at 1. So I will say there is no trend. It doesn't indicate anything. Everything was very good and clean. You can find my report and my thread on the bearing change and you can decide what your bearings might be like compare to mine.