Rod Bearing Replacement w/Pics (2010 e92, 62k Miles)

[delirium330]

Just had the rod bearings and engine mounts replaced at 62k miles. Went with BE Bearings and BE-ARP Bolts for the replacement parts.

I am the second owner and picked up the car with 58k miles. Based on maintenance history that I had access to and discussion with the dealer that did the service it was a daily driver for the 1st owner. All miles were in AZ and CA. Only has seen OEM BMW oil. No engine mods. It was under warranty the entire time and was routinely serviced at BMW recommended intervals (between 11k-14k on oil changes). No idea if it ever saw the track or how the 1st owner treated it during oil warmup period.

The below oil report was done with 3k on the oil. Also posted a picture of the engine mounts that were replaced. I'm not as familiar with engine mounts to tell what condition they are in from the picture, but the mechanic said they were pretty compressed and was a good idea to swap out while doing the rod bearing swap.

[Rat3d ///M]

Those mounts are shot to shit. no convinced by that oil report though. only 2 for lead? With that kind of wear I would expect much higher numbers.

[macdude357]

I don't understand how bearings can show that much wear yet the metals are not showing up in the Blackstone reports. I have an the same year and mileage car and my last report was good as well. Hmmm....

[Mvy]

The lead babbit layer is long gone on the wear point of those bearings. Whats surprising is how low the copper is with exposed copper on bearing 8.

Several members have been focused on saying that blackstone is useless at detecting premature bearing wear on the newer bearing design that uses tin. Some said watch for aluminum and tin instead. This is a prime example of the oil report not showing bearing wear even on the pre tin bearings.

I'm pretty convinced at this point that Blackstone and other oil quality reports are basically a useless tool for this purpose unless its really rapidly wearing and you get lucky when you choose to do it. I didn't see excessive wear metals in my report either and my bearings were shit when we took them out at 47k. I won't be wasting my money on blackstones every oil change anymore watching for bearing wear.

[kb9uwu]

Originally Posted by macdude357

I don't understand how bearings can show that much wear yet the metals are not showing up in the Blackstone reports. I have an the same year and mileage car and my last report was good as well. Hmmm....

maybe all that wear happened years ago, just a thought.

[doogee]

Originally Posted by Mvy

I'm pretty convinced at this point that Blackstone and other oil quality reports are basically a useless tool for this purpose unless its really rapidly wearing and you get lucky when you choose to do it.

Absolutely. I think people put way too much faith in oil analysis.

[New2Roundel]

There are two things I'd love to see regarding this bearing issue:
1) How the OEM bearings wear over time. And what I mean by that is to physically inspect the bearings every ~15k miles to see what's changed and in what way, along with oil analysis reports over the same time period
2) How the various replacement bearings fare over the same intervals

[shimmy23]

Originally Posted by New2Roundel

There are two things I'd love to see regarding this bearing issue:
1) How the OEM bearings wear over time. And what I mean by that is to physically inspect the bearings every ~15k miles to see what's changed and in what way, along with oil analysis reports over the same time period
2) How the various replacement bearings fare over the same intervals

I think we'd all like to see this data, but I doubt anyone would go thru the effort to get it. If you're already in there inspecting, you might as well spend a few hundred and replace them every time.

[CHE///MIST3]

Interesting !

On this forum we see a lot of pulled bearings with copper massively exposed and the engine was running just fine (there was an example from Brazil with almost all bearings exposed copper at only 30kish miles and didn't sieze). Definitely it is excessive wear, but it also seems that just because copper is exposed it does not mean a spun bearing will occur soon. If there is sufficient oil flowing, and the metal surfaces don't contact at high RPM then the copper is just acting as another bearing surface...on borrowed time, of course....am I correct in thinking this?

GM

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by New2Roundel

There are two things I'd love to see regarding this bearing issue:
1) How the OEM bearings wear over time. And what I mean by that is to physically inspect the bearings every ~15k miles to see what's changed and in what way, along with oil analysis reports over the same time period
2) How the various replacement bearings fare over the same intervals

That sounds like a lot of work. It probably won't happen, but there will be more and more information available as time passes and these cars get older, the miles accumulate and people do more preventative maintenance, maintenance, and repairs.

[CHE///MIST3]

Blackstone reports are just good for how the bearings are wearing over time...such as when you see lead and copper wearing away if the engine is not receiving enough oil or is being run too hard when cold.

Blackstone can't tell you how the bearings actually look at the moment while the engine is running well. If just 1 or 2 bearings are worn down to the copper, but there is sufficient oil and proper driving techniques are used, then hardly any copper should present in the analysis.

....but the way this S65 engine is, my thoughts will be blown into Wrong-ville soon enough. Lol

GM

Originally Posted by Mvy

The lead babbit layer is long gone on the wear point of those bearings. Whats surprising is how low the copper is with exposed copper on bearing 8.

Several members have been focused on saying that blackstone is useless at detecting premature bearing wear on the newer bearing design that uses tin. Some said watch for aluminum and tin instead. This is a prime example of the oil report not showing bearing wear even on the pre tin bearings.

I'm pretty convinced at this point that Blackstone and other oil quality reports are basically a useless tool for this purpose unless its really rapidly wearing and you get lucky when you choose to do it. I didn't see excessive wear metals in my report either and my bearings were shit when we took them out at 47k. I won't be wasting my money on blackstones every oil change anymore watching for bearing wear.

[burtonsbs5114]

It is possible the majority of the wear happened before the oil analysis.

[admranger]

Perhaps the wear opens the clearance up to the levels it should be at and wear slows down dramatically? Pure conjecture, but it'd be interesting to see what the clearance is on some of these situations where the bearings are clearly worn.

[MFL]

My motor mounts disintegrated when the front subframe was pulled. Highly recommended to just replace them while you have it all taken apart.

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by admranger

Perhaps the wear opens the clearance up to the levels it should be at and wear slows down dramatically? Pure conjecture, but it'd be interesting to see what the clearance is on some of these situations where the bearings are clearly worn.

I think you're dead on. I've been thinking about throwing one of the old oem bearings back in the broken engine and platigauging it. Will post up the results..gotta get a couple oem bolts first.

I'd also be interested in knowing the thickness of the lead and copper layers on oem bearings if anyone has that info.

Op's #8 was on the verge of failing in my opinion.

[jester17]

#8 def looks close to failure... but I have a question/observation about which I'd love some feedback.

As I understand it, the whole issue with our bearings is the lubrication factor/spacing between piston and bearing. The OP's top bearings look worn/have wear while the bottoms look close to fine. Is this potentially evidence of poor space matching, i.e. exactly what folks have pointed out since time-outta-mind? Or am I misunderstanding the primary issue/concern.

Thanks!

[Doc Oc]

I think you meant "between crank journal and bearing". The uppers wearing first is pretty typical. Anytime there is a breakdown of the hydrodynamic wedge the upper shell is going to feel the effects worse because that's where the combustion force is coming from.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

I think you're dead on. I've been thinking about throwing one of the old oem bearings back in the broken engine and platigauging it. Will post up the results..gotta get a couple oem bolts first.

I'd also be interested in knowing the thickness of the lead and copper layers on oem bearings if anyone has that info.

Op's #8 was on the verge of failing in my opinion.

Super interested in the results. Could always use ARP bolts but it wouldn't be a perfect comparison. Still interesting info though.

[New2Roundel]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

That sounds like a lot of work. It probably won't happen, but there will be more and more information available as time passes and these cars get older, the miles accumulate and people do more preventative maintenance, maintenance, and repairs.

This isn't really something for a private person to do, but for one of these companies saying that their bearing solution is the way to go. There's no way I'm changing my bearings until I know the typical wear characteristics and I'm also not confident that any of the aftermarket solutions are any better than OEM. For a shop that does this all day long, this should not be nearly as time consuming or costly as it would be for most of us.

[Doc Oc]

I just pulled VAC's after 13k miles and they were flawless. I'm sure BE's would be too with even more clearance and about the same bolt. Given the way the oem bearings looked when they came out there should've been some wear on the VAC's if they weren't a permanent fix.

[JonM]

My theory (and supported by Blackstone results) is: the wear happens right at the beginning.

I am the one and only owner of my car. 2008 E90M3. BMW/Castrol 10W60 every 5000 miles, DIY by me every time. When I bought the car I was already tuned up to oil analysis and bearing failures, as I had S54s in my fleet at the time. I think I was one of the first to Blackstone-test an S65. See attached. The first Blackstone report on the car was bad. The second was not good.

Now, when I test it at 60,000 miles, it looks OK.

[tenman]

Originally Posted by JonM

My theory (and supported by Blackstone results) is: the wear happens right at the beginning.

I am the one and only owner of my car. 2008 E90M3. BMW/Castrol 10W60 every 5000 miles, DIY by me every time. When I bought the car I was already tuned up to oil analysis and bearing failures, as I had S54s in my fleet at the time. I think I was one of the first to Blackstone-test an S65. See attached. The first Blackstone report on the car was bad. The second was not good.

Now, when I test it at 60,000 miles, it looks OK.

Interesting...