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05-08-2008, 08:52 AM | #67 | |
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For example, in S3, coming up to a corner in 3rd, then shifting to 2nd, it rev-matches seamlessly. Try this in S4 or S5 and you get an overaggressive blip, causing revs to spike higher than what is needed for a perfect match. This in turn causes a slight surge under braking as the car dumps the excess rpms. At least, this is my impression of what's going on.
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05-08-2008, 10:21 AM | #68 | |
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I said it before and I will say it again, this was engineered in the make a noticeable link to the old SMG and it serves no other purpose or benefit. Also the engineers at VAG have been working on this technology for years and I reckon if there was a need for a surge then they would have had. Anyway mattwhite, thanks for reaffirming what I already knew. |
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05-08-2008, 10:44 AM | #69 |
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Swampy,
I apologize for not chiming in earlier but I have been busy my self and didn't see your post till just now. Where are the freaking pictures, man? Sir Epacy sure has gone soft since his delivery and lets you get away with all these lame excuses? This is Thee Mr Swamp's ride no less, give me a break? What has this forum came to, a bunch of softies now that they have been given their carrots? You talked about Geneva as a long wait and a long time ago. Come on, We have been niggling about this car long before Geneva. How about all the camo spy shot crap and trying to guess what that final red line number was going to be. Remember the talk about the red line being reduced to a lowly 8400 due to reliability problems. We were not happy campers that week. Fiance? You have had some serious stress the last year. You both deserve a vacation, a very long vacation. Her probably more than you. In all seriousness, I share your excitement about your car and your imminent nuptials. Extremely important year for you. I really appreciated your support and as everyone has already said, we appreciate your as always thorough and very educational review. Now get er done with the pics already. |
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05-08-2008, 01:08 PM | #70 | |
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Obviously I don't understand the desire for pics of each and every M as much as many. Just got clear bra-ed yesterday and now have the recommend 5 days until the next wash. I am dirty rear and clean front presently. I may break that wash "rule" for some LC vids on the weekend... |
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05-08-2008, 01:14 PM | #71 | |
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LC as in Launch Control? So, you're past break-in then? If so, then I'm really looking forward to that.
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05-08-2008, 04:59 PM | #72 | ||
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Best regards, south PS: Sorry for OT, swamp.
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05-09-2008, 03:28 AM | #73 | ||
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Matt and footie: I have not decided if the rev matching is excessive in S3-S6. Sometimes it seems like it may be (exactly as you described Matt) but I also think these modes are designed for principal use at the high end of the rpm range (where I personally am not yet exploring). Footie: Why are you so insistent that BMW is doing so many things for image and not for substantive purpose and gain? It is very against M principles, past designs, overall goals, etc., everything to make all of there features only about feel, sound or a link to old technology. Your belief that Audi knows better and knows everything is a bit fanboy-ish. Remember that the brains behind both DSG and DCT is Borg Warner (and Getrag in BMWs case). It is not clear how much software is done in house by OEMs and how much is done by Borg/Getrag. Last edited by swamp2; 05-09-2008 at 12:25 PM.. |
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05-09-2008, 08:08 AM | #74 |
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Maybe this is not the best place to voice this as I don't want to turn Swamp's new car thread into a DCT debate, but Larry Koch did say that DCT was so smooth that they had to "build-in" some effects. I did not have the chance to follow up on what he meant by that exactly, and I guess that is open to speculation.
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05-09-2008, 08:26 AM | #75 | |||
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I also think you are not giving both Audi and BMW enough credit in the development of both systems, thinking that it was mostly the work of Borg Warner and Getrag. Look and the DSG, M-DCT and finally the EVO X and GTR systems which names escapes me, all of them behave differently yet all are following the same basic design, why because they are co-developed by the manufacturer to their spec. There is not a single thing on any car which hasn't be approved by the manufacturer to meet their requirements.........that is a fact. |
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05-09-2008, 09:17 AM | #76 | |
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What else could it be, after all it's the only noticeable difference between DSG, EVO & GTR systems and that of the BMW DCT. Dual clutch is be design ultra smooth and that was after the forefront of it's development, to not upset the balance of the car which a manual does. It's nice to see that my comments are finally proving to be right, even though I knew it all this time. P.S. Sorry for turning this into one of those thread debates. |
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05-09-2008, 09:33 AM | #77 |
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05-09-2008, 10:25 AM | #79 | |
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05-09-2008, 12:10 PM | #80 |
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swamp, do you find that there is a "learning curve" to this transmission as the first reviews have claimed? Is it smooth under all circumstances or just some, and is it up to the driver to learn how to get the most out of it (performance and smoothness) or can you just stomp on it and go, as well as brake and stop smoothly? Just wondering how it could compare to the ease of use of a slushbox, or the learning curve of a manual. Sorry for the long run-on...
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05-09-2008, 12:15 PM | #81 |
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There's not much of a learning curve to drive M-DCT smoothly. However, there is a lot of subtle things that I'm still learning each time I drive it. It's actually easier to drive my M-DCT M3 smoothly than my X5 due to the "logic" built into the X5's automatic transmission (which prefers to be driven with a heavy foot). The M3, of course, can be driven aggressively easily as well.
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05-09-2008, 12:21 PM | #82 | |
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05-09-2008, 12:27 PM | #83 |
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Def. no big learning curve. I didnt even look at the manual and just hopped in...if you know how to drive a auto then M-DCT is cake. S mode might be harder for some people, but if you drove steptronic before then its basically the same thing.
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05-09-2008, 12:33 PM | #84 | |
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Although I agree with you about the purpose and what a downshift should be I have not made up my mind about any excess in S4-S6 downshifts. I suspect they will appear much more applicable for track use. You have not driven the GT-R nor Evo and the reports of the two we all have access to do not provide enough detail about their transmissions to make fair comparisons to M-DCT. I have said that once and will keep saying it until you acknowledge it. Lastly you should qualify "no" benefit as I have to mean possible but likely little measureable benefit. Acceleration is acceleration whether instantaneous (jerk) or continuous (jerk=0) and it all helps. You refuse to acknowledge this. |
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05-09-2008, 12:37 PM | #86 | |
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-The biggest problem is over-reving if you are trying to adhere to a break in rpm limit. -Aggressive take off also does require just a touch of technique to make it perfect. -Some other simple things inevitably come up like switching to the lever for 1->2 instead of the paddles when you have poor access to the paddles under very sharp turning. In for 1200 mi service right now. |
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05-09-2008, 01:50 PM | #87 | |
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Good luck. You can finally start to drive it the way it was meant to be. But take it up gradually to redline. For example, keep it under 6000 rpm until 1500 miles. Then keep it under 6500 until 1800 miles. And so on. By the time you get to 3000 miles you can start to rev it to redline and the fun really starts.
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05-09-2008, 02:14 PM | #88 | |
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