Vorsteiner Titanium Exhaust Install and Preliminary Impressions

[badfish]

Sorry, thought I linked it in the original post. I bought mine from Speedzone24-7.com since I have purchased from them before for other things like thermal wrap and catalytic converter shield. It's extra insurance that cost about $52. I have no data to back up that it's necessary or that it's not, I just figured it couldn't hurt.

http://speedzone24-7.com/clampon.htm

I'll take a picture when I get a chance... UUC uses the same thing on their exhaust.

[rzm3]

Originally Posted by badfish

Sorry, thought I linked it in the original post. I bought mine from Speedzone24-7.com since I have purchased from them before for other things like thermal wrap and catalytic converter shield. It's extra insurance that cost about $52. I have no data to back up that it's necessary or that it's not, I just figured it couldn't hurt.

http://speedzone24-7.com/clampon.htm

I'll take a picture when I get a chance... UUC uses the same thing on their exhaust.

Thanks for the link! Something for a lot of people to consider.

[monsta]

Originally Posted by badfish

Sorry, thought I linked it in the original post. I bought mine from Speedzone24-7.com since I have purchased from them before for other things like thermal wrap and catalytic converter shield. It's extra insurance that cost about $52. I have no data to back up that it's necessary or that it's not, I just figured it couldn't hurt.

http://speedzone24-7.com/clampon.htm

I'll take a picture when I get a chance... UUC uses the same thing on their exhaust.

thanks badfish definitely going to pick one of these up as extra insurance

[tmntmn]

Originally Posted by badfish

Sorry, thought I linked it in the original post. I bought mine from Speedzone24-7.com since I have purchased from them before for other things like thermal wrap and catalytic converter shield. It's extra insurance that cost about $52. I have no data to back up that it's necessary or that it's not, I just figured it couldn't hurt.

http://speedzone24-7.com/clampon.htm

I'll take a picture when I get a chance... UUC uses the same thing on their exhaust.

what size did you buy? i think im going to order me some also.

[badfish]

Originally Posted by tmntmn

what size did you buy? i think im going to order me some also.

Originally Posted by badfish

I bought 2 of these 1' Thermotec clamp on heatshields just to be on the safe side. I noticed that there was an aftermarket exhaust system being designed with the same exact clamp on heatshields.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by Sticky

Sweet, my thoughts are the factory muffler is the heavy anchor it is to maintain the BMW typical 50% weight distribution.

Possible because the thing really feels over-engineered. My buddy was standing/walking on it while I was trying to pry the hangers off. I think some people are putting way too much emphasis on the "perfect" 50/50 weight distribution, and seeing it as an absolute measure. There are competing rotational inertia and acceleration effects, so it really is a matter of trade-offs. It'll all go back to perfect when I stick a roll bar in there though!

[lucid]

Originally Posted by badfish

I bought 2 of these 1' Thermotec clamp on heatshields just to be on the safe side. I noticed that there was an aftermarket exhaust system being designed with the same exact clamp on heatshields.

I'd have to think about these to be convinced of their efficacy. There is no air gap in between the pipe and the "shield" material.

[badfish]

Originally Posted by lucid

I'd have to think about these to be convinced of their efficacy. There is no air gap in between the pipe and the "shield" material.

Actually there is a gap. It's raining here so I'm lazy to go out to take pictures but these do not wrap around the pipe as tight as you would think.

The material works quite well, I use something very similar to shield the trunk in my NSX from the exhaust and it lowered the temperature of the trunk floor by at least 15 degrees.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by badfish

Actually there is a gap. It's raining here so I'm lazy to go out to take pictures but these do not wrap around the pipe as tight as you would think.

It would be great if you could take a pic at some point when you have the time. Thanks.

[noxredna]

David, if you wanna let go of that X-pipe, you know who to look for =D haha

I'm in the market for an x-pipe. My remus is too soft!

Originally Posted by tallycoolies

Haha sorry Bill, didn't mean to do that but anywayz. I've thought about that too that having a x-pipe but I don't think it'll go as loud as w/Vorsteiner, after hearing urs. Additionally, I like that burnt TIPS Thanks for the info.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by badfish

I bought 2 of these 1' Thermotec clamp on heatshields just to be on the safe side. I noticed that there was an aftermarket exhaust system being designed with the same exact clamp on heatshields.

Excellent find. Although not quite set on doing an exhaust system myseld I am getting closer and these would be a must have. BMW put these particular shields there for a good reason, to protect both the nearby components and rubber covers. These details are things aftermarket folks simply miss the boat on. This is a great, inexpensive bit of security that I would absolutely install should I do an exhaust. Thanks!

[badfish]

Ok here are some pics of the heatshield installed.

[rzm3]

Originally Posted by lucid

I'd have to think about these to be convinced of their efficacy. There is no air gap in between the pipe and the "shield" material.

I don't think you really need an air gap. It is there to reflect rediation; not conduction/convection. I don't think the stock shields have air gaps either.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by badfish

I bought 2 of these 1' Thermotec clamp on heatshields just to be on the safe side. I noticed that there was an aftermarket exhaust system being designed with the same exact clamp on heatshields. The advantage of these is that they are formable and will not rattle if they contact other parts, work up to 2000 degrees and are oil and grease-resistant.

Ceramic blankets as used in fireproofing are another possibility. 3M has a version ("Nextel Thermal Barriers") used as a heat shield in race cars.

http://www.3m.com/market/industrial/..._barriers.html

http://www.3m.com/market/industrial/...l_Barriers.pdf

[lucid]

Originally Posted by rldzhao

I don't think you really need an air gap. It is there to reflect rediation; not conduction/convection. I don't think the stock shields have air gaps either.

I am pretty sure the stock shields have about an 1/2" air gap. I'll check tomorrow. Radiative heat transfer becomes significant at very high temperatures. I don't know that the exhaust system gets that hot. I'll need to check the radiative heat transfer coefficient derivations to see if that can be significant factor. However you look at it convection is a significant factor. I think that is why the stock system has the gap so that there is air circulation. Plus, if you wrap the reflective material around the pipe, how exactly is radiation out of the pipe supposed to take place? Radiation occurs between two surfaces, and if the material is wrapped it would be a closed loop as the shield would simply be facing the pipe and vice versa. That would only make sense if you were trying to protect the pipe from absorbing heat from the sorroundings by coating it with reflective material, which clearly is not what we are trying to do here.

[RedlineMotorworks]

Beautiful writeup!

Thanks for the business and I'm glad you're enjoying the new exhaust system. The stock system is definitely an anchor compared to the titanium system.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by RedlineMotorworks

Beautiful writeup!

Thanks for the business and I'm glad you're enjoying the new exhaust system. The stock system is definitely an anchor compared to the titanium system.

Thanks for the good service Andrew.

[badfish]

Originally Posted by lucid

I am pretty sure the stock shields have about an 1/2" air gap. I'll check tomorrow. Radiative heat transfer becomes significant at very high temperatures. I don't know that the exhaust system gets that hot. I'll need to check the radiative heat transfer coefficient derivations to see if that can be significant factor. However you look at it convection is a significant factor. I think that is why the stock system has the gap so that there is air circulation. Plus, if you wrap the reflective material around the pipe, how exactly is radiation out of the pipe supposed to take place? Radiation occurs between two surfaces, and if the material is wrapped it would be a closed loop as the shield would simply be facing the pipe and vice versa. That would only make sense if you were trying to protect the pipe from absorbing heat from the sorroundings by coating it with reflective material, which clearly is not what we are trying to do here.

If it were wrapped around with no gaps then the pipe would get hotter and the heat would move to the cooler parts which are exposed. But there are gaps as you can see in the pics.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by badfish

If it were wrapped around with no gaps then the pipe would get hotter and the heat would move to the cooler parts which are exposed.

Yes, that is what I am saying. Then you would be talking about a simple conduction + convection curcuit, and the question would become: how much thermal resistence can such a thin piece of material really have to cause a significant temperature drop across it. I don't know, maybe it has enough resistence to make a difference. Anyway, thanks for te pics, and I'll check the size of the gap on the stock system. When a gap is present, you have convection + conduction + convection. If the flow works out, you could have forced convection through the gap, which is kind of my thinking. And it is possible that the shield also can act as a reflective barrier for radiation if the gap is wide enough so that energy can be dispersed and if the temps are high enough.

[dogears]

I used to wrap the headers in my Grand National with heat resistant wrap. You could almost touch the surface..... Even a thin wrap can do the job. I have seen it first hand.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by dogears

I used to wrap the headers in my Grand National with heat resistant wrap. You could almost touch the surface..... Even a thin wrap can do the job. I have seen it first hand.

You could almost touch the surface when exactly? After it has been driven at high rpm for a sustained period of time? If so, then some of these materials might indeed have high enough thermal resistence to act as a low-conduction shield.

[rzm3]

Originally Posted by lucid

Yes, that is what I am saying. Then you would be talking about a simple conduction + convection curcuit, and the question would become: how much thermal resistence can such a thin piece of material really have to cause a significant temperature drop across it. I don't know, maybe it has enough resistence to make a difference. Anyway, thanks for te pics, and I'll check the size of the gap on the stock system. When a gap is present, you have convection + conduction + convection. If the flow works out, you could have forced convection through the gap, which is kind of my thinking. And it is possible that the shield also can act as a reflective barrier for radiation if the gap is wide enough so that energy can be dispersed and if the temps are high enough.

I guess it makes sense to have a gap. Otherwise the shield would be at a temperature really close to the pipe which is just going to radiate onto the drive shaft anyway.

I think the main problem here is radiation, which is uninterrupted (moving or not) as long as there is a temperature difference. The shiny surface of the shield reflects the heat like a mirror reflects light.

Convection shouldn't be a big problem as I would think that the shield has a very high thermal conductivity to readily dissipate heat into air when the car moves. But radiation on the other hand will always exist.

Anyway I would think that adding a heat shield would be a good choice to aftermarket pipes.