Why change oil more often than recommended intervals?

[brownb_2]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Less so yes. Makes most financial sense for bmw and similar who offer maintenance with new car.

ok

[Thik]

Originally Posted by Gumulri

because I love my car and paid off out of warranty also want to keep it for 10 more years.

No guarantee your engine will run for 10 years even if you change your oil every other day. Do you have evidence that if you follow the manufacturer's recommended change intervals, your engine will blow after 10 years?

Originally Posted by Helmsman

In my book 15k miles is too long for any engine and close to crazy in a high rev performance one like this.

Not according to BMW M engineers.

Originally Posted by TomHudson

It is to get through the warranty period and that's that. All these engines have some blow by - frequent oil changes is good for the engine period.

If that's the case, why do any car marker design any engine that would last longer than 60,000 miles?

Originally Posted by ycb

I just changed my oil after 7000km.. and looking at the color.. I couldn't imagine having it in there for another 7000km.

If you can determine your oil change interval by looking at your oil, I think you should be a NASA engineer!

Anyways, I still don't see any solid evidence or a reasonable argument that changing the oil more frequently than the factory recommended intervals makes any difference. So I'd say,

[omniphil]

Originally Posted by okusa

This may just be. No, scratch that. This is definitely the most idiotic post in the history of M3 Post oil discussions.

From a web discussion (as I'm not oil expert, but clearly I am more informed that to make such a crazy post) "Yes, oil lubricates. However, it also helps cool the engine. As heat breaks down the oil over time it reduces it's capacity to absorb heat, making it more viscous, and ultimately volatile. Changing the oil makes sure the proper amount is in the engine, that it's at full lubricating and heat absorption abilities, and that it's clean."

Do I win a prize?

I come to the internet to learn things not to put others down to make myself feel better. Its your choice as to what you want to learn. I offer some experience and wisdom to you, If you don't think what I have to say is valuable you don't have to follow it, its your car you are welcomed to do what you want based on what you think. I am totally cool with that. I am offering my side of the story, nothing more.

Would you like to learn something?

Detergents/Cleaning additives are abrasive, That's pretty much the purpose, They break down the sludge and junk in the engine and suspend it in the oil. Those cleaning additive wear out/burn off after some period in the first 1500 miles or so. You are then left with the wonderful anti wear additives. That's good. (They wear out too, much after a much longer time)

So guess what you are doing each time you change your oil? Yup, You already guessed it.

You obviously don't want to go too long on an oil change as all the additives will wear out, Only an oil analysis will tell that, but you can tell from the many oil reports already out there that for most people 10,000 miles is totally fine. Sometimes longer.

I change my oil in my vehicles every 10,000 miles. I use Mobil 1 0W-40 because it flows the fastest on cold starts (a good percentage of engine wear is cold starts) In my opinion there is no reason to use anything other than a 0W oil in a normal driven street car. Why would you want less protection?

Imagine how many more times those abrasive detergents are in your engine if you changed it every 3000 miles for example?

Guess what race oil is? Oil that has the detergents greatly reduced because its changed very often. Making sense yet?

There are quite a few reason to change the oil sooner, most of which you can all guess, but for someone like me that daily drives my car, I don't need shorter intervals, in fact I want as long as interval as possible without the oil losing it ability to lubricate properly and trap dirt and crud.

In the grand scheme of things if your aren't tracking your car all the time its not going to make a big difference if you change it at 3000 miles or 15,000 miles. But if your anal about your car and every little ounce of prevention is appealing to you I would not change it very often even though it seems counter intuitive. I was just trying to let you guys know that contrary to popular belief engine wear will decrease as the oil ages (to a point).



Take this information and do with it what you wish. I am just giving you some information. It's on the internet so it has to be true right? You don't have to believe any of this, this is just what I believe.

[MrPrena]

Just change oil whatever you guys are comfortable with.
Depends on my driving style, weather delta, frequency of acceleration relative to constant velocity, frequency of cold start, etc etc, I will change it sooner than recommended interval or at the interval.

[REV1]

One thing I think that is overlooked and underestimated is the fact that the car holds almost 10 quarts of really good oil. That has a lot to do with the 15k rule from BMW.

[omniphil]

Originally Posted by REV1

One thing I think that is overlooked and underestimated is the fact that the car holds almost 10 quarts of really good oil. That has a lot to do with the 15k rule from BMW.

Also why we are spec'ed to use 10W-60 oil. Oil shears over time so after 15,000 miles the oil might only be a 40 weight oil which is still fine. However if you start with a 0W-40 oil and it shears down to 20 weight after 15,000 miles you might not have enough protection in extreme situations.

Remember, all the manufactures recommendations are to accommodate the absolute extreme worse case scenario. Scenarios that 99% of us won't ever encounter.

I don't know more than BMW engineers, but I do know what conditions my particular car is subjected to vs a BMW engineer and that makes all the difference in the world as to how I choose to protect it. There is no way I would put a 10W-60 oil in any car I own that I don't race all the time. Especially with the ultra tight bearing clearances of the S65. I am not using the car for it's intended purpose (Racing) so I certainly don't need the intended oil. 0 Weight oils are here and readily available, all street driven cars should be using them It protects better against the number 1 contributor to engine wear, dry starts.

[G80indy]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Keep the engine oil fresh in my S65 is one rare thing I love "wasting" money on!

In my book 15k miles is too long for any engine and close to crazy in a high rev performance one like this.

Also would never buy a car with this interval in the service book myself and count on that whatever spent on oil change will be a good investment the day I sell...

Agree 100%.

Regarding the color of the oil and extended OCIs, if you care at all about the friction and clearances in this race engine go to the Clevite site and read up about the main cause for wear in an engine: dirt!
Change your oil and air filter often enough and sleep well.

[ycb]

Originally Posted by Thik

If you can determine your oil change interval by looking at your oil, I think you should be a NASA engineer!

haha.. repairing lawnmowers for many years now and I've seen everything from fresh to the dirtiest oil you can imagine.. lol.

Only reason I do my changes @7000km is because of my Blackstone report. 12,000km report scared me a bit.. so I dropped it to ~7000km. However.. TBN report stats the oil can run much longer.

"The TBN is good at 2.2, so the oil itself could go longer, but cut back to ~9,000 km to monitor lead."

I guess every car/person is different.. but 15,000 miles = 24,140 km? That is insane!! lol only 5 oil changes before it hits 100,000 km (not including the 1200 mile one).. must have been Oktoberfest.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Its a little strange to see such a different culture of car maintenance...here (UK) mostly everyone (not all but most) sticks with the manufacturers recommended oil and service intervals.
Some of you guys seem to second guess the manufacturers choice of oil weight (and especially hilariously, the rod bearing clearance - but thats a different story) and pick whatever oil weight and manufacturer you fancy as well as the OCI.
I suspect overall we tend to stay with the recommended oil and change intervals far more than you guys do, yet Northern European M3s don't suffer anywhere near the same rate of engine problems that USA cars do.

That the highest engine failure rate in the USA are in hotter states peaking in the summer months suggests that a lighter weight oil would be a poor choice at least for those states.

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Its a little strange to see such a different culture of car maintenance...here (UK) mostly everyone (not all but most) sticks with the manufacturers recommended oil and service intervals.
Some of you guys seem to second guess the manufacturers choice of oil weight (and especially hilariously, the rod bearing clearance - but thats a different story) and pick whatever oil weight and manufacturer you fancy as well as the OCI.
I suspect overall we tend to stay with the recommended oil and change intervals far more than you guys do, yet Northern European M3s don't suffer anywhere near the same rate of engine problems that USA cars do.

That the highest engine failure rate in the USA are in hotter states peaking in the summer months suggests that a lighter weight oil would be a poor choice at least for those states.

Is there any info out there as to how many m3's are in Europe compared to USA?

[crypticc]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

Is there any info out there as to how many m3's are in Europe compared to USA?

Not USA vs EU but close enough.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=863649

Elsewhere using dct numbers I once tallied uk only registrations to the global numbers. I can't remember where I put that. (Could do for dct because these were registered differently vs and and manual)

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by crypticc

Not USA vs EU but close enough.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=863649

Elsewhere using dct numbers I once tallied uk only registrations to the global numbers. I can't remember where I put that. (Could do for dct because these were registered differently vs and and manual)

Thanks for the link.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Its a little strange to see such a different culture of car maintenance...here (UK) mostly everyone (not all but most) sticks with the manufacturers recommended oil and service intervals.
Some of you guys seem to second guess the manufacturers choice of oil weight (and especially hilariously, the rod bearing clearance - but thats a different story) and pick whatever oil weight and manufacturer you fancy as well as the OCI.
I suspect overall we tend to stay with the recommended oil and change intervals far more than you guys do, yet Northern European M3s don't suffer anywhere near the same rate of engine problems that USA cars do.

That the highest engine failure rate in the USA are in hotter states peaking in the summer months suggests that a lighter weight oil would be a poor choice at least for those states.

Hi SFP, hope things are good. Agree, reading the Cutters its seems fairly common in the UK to stick to 15k, I need to assume you're not one of them..?

I'm guessing its the same in Sweden, reading ads etc seems to be the case. However, we do have RB fail mate, called on a S65 ad the other day, turns out the bloke had two engines with bearing fail, didn't drive anyone himself but claimed they where driven over here. I've seen one car with new engine due to rb earlier, this could obviously be one of them. We currently have around 450 E90/92/93 altogether in Sweden (only 10 E90 comp pack..☺).

Cheers

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Hi SFP, hope things are good. Agree, reading the Cutters its seems fairly common in the UK to stick to 15k, I need to assume you're not one of them..?
Cheers

Hey, how its going....I change the oil at the biannual service which usually works out at around 12k miles.
No problems so far.

[Gumulri]

That the highest engine failure rate in the USA are in hotter states peaking in the summer months suggests that a lighter weight oil would be a poor choice at least for those states.[/QUOTE]

+1111111111111

[Gossypiboma]

Originally Posted by Gumulri

That the highest engine failure rate in the USA are in hotter states peaking in the summer months suggests that a lighter weight oil would be a poor choice at least for those states.

+1111111111111[/QUOTE]

This is absolutely an assumption.

Please show me your analysis that proves your statement is statistically significant. You cannot, nor can you prove that US cars fail more than their counterparts in Europe. Simple as that.

[G80indy]

Who can confirm the assertion above that detergents in motor oil are ... Abrasive. !!???!!

[trustbran]

Have you seen 15k oil...its frothy, thicky, slothy, etc..... Like try not brushing your teeth for 1 week and see the gunkyness that prevails, not that I've tried this LOL.. Yah 5k oil changes for me keeps the engine mouth so fresh!

-Brandon

[Three Pedal Steve]

I wonder about high revs when the engine is cold and the effect on the rod bearing issue?
And wife does not understand why I will not allow Valet parking of my M3.

[TomHudson]

The manufacturers are also looking after their own financial interests. The argument to say that BMW designs everything the upmost engineering it shouldn't be questioned his silly. I don't have a spare tire in my car, I have a can of foam. I'm assuming that's better than actually having us there? Or is it because they save money?

North of the border I do a lot of commuting, and a lot of weather changes. In other words, there's a lot of other factors the mitigate the decision to change the oil. I know people that never do oil changes and just add oil over years, and the engine still runs.

Anyway, changing The oil is cheap peace of mind, where an engine is $25,000. And I want to enjoy it for as long as I can

[vsix]

Originally Posted by trustbran

Have you seen 15k oil...its frothy, thicky, slothy, etc..... Like try not brushing your teeth for 1 week and see the gunkyness that prevails, not that I've tried this LOL.. Yah 5k oil changes for me keeps the engine mouth so fresh!

-Brandon

I think over maintanance is also not healthy for your engine.
Sure there's a point where you just have to change your engine's oil but it's definately not recommended to do it to often.

[G80indy]

Originally Posted by vsix

I think over maintanance is also not healthy for your engine.
Sure there's a point where you just have to change your engine's oil but it's definately not recommended to do it to often.

Oh yeah forgot ---- save the planet