Official: Alfa Romeo 4C

[Soorena]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

Except for some reliability issues...

Knocking on wood, the trans has been a strong piece. A friend's 458C had some electrical issues but that's all i'm aware of. California and SLS owners that i know had no issues with their trans either.

Originally Posted by GTF

If you had read my posts you would know the answer to that question. As for the 'glorious days' of the good old manual 'stick' you could say the exact same thing about how special a non-power assisted steering wheel - that the Alfa Romeo 4C has - can feel when compared to all modern power assisted steering wheels of the S2000's, Miatas and 458's of this world. It's a moot point to me as the double-clutch gearboxes are not only a question of 'feeling' but how much quicker and more fuel-efficient they can be.

Drivers may think they are "changing" gears via paddle shifters however, a computer is doing that for you, doesn't it?

As for the power steering subject, i think your enlargement is invalid. Power gives you assistance in steering, the whole concept of steering is not changed. But can't say the same thing about automatic.

Originally Posted by GTF

In 2014 the F1 engines will have 1.6-liter of capacity, a rev limit of 15000 rpm, they will be turbocharged and have to last for around 5000 kilometres as opposed to the current 2000. That's how far we've come since 1981 as far as realibility is concerned in F1.

Of course. Isn't that the point of progress? But what you miss here is the regulations. Teams only can use 5 engines per driver in the whole season, very different than the regulations we had back in 80's. I'm pretty sure no one asked teams to make reliable engines in those times. I have confidence that engineers even can improve on that 5000 km lifetime and make it longer, still doesn't change the fact that we are comparing a very expensive race engine to a street engine. And that particular engine is from Fiat which isn't known for reliability.

Originally Posted by GTF

The comparison to the BMW M12/13 F1 turbo engines (originally these were only 1.5 liter, 4 cylinder road going BMW engines, mind you) was made just to underline the fact that despite the presence of HUGE turbo lag and VERY poor drivability that made of the pilots of that era true driving heros it gave BMW their only F1 championship title right on their second year attempt whereas the 'beautiful sounding' and throttle adjustable Ferrari V12 had to be abandoned by Ferrari because during 6 straight years since its introduction in F1, from 1989 to 1995, it never delivered.

The M12/M13 engines had nothing to do with road going M10's except the block structure. And we should note that regulations in that era was all in favor of forced induction. Ferrari's 3.5 V12 should have competed against a merely 1.5 that infact could get much more air. Surely it couldn't keep up with Honda V6's and other turbo monsters.

Originally Posted by GTF

Since you are Iranian and you own a Ferrari 458 the odds are that you or your father are related to the oil business so you should understand the pressure that is been put for world oil demand mainly by countries like China and that if this pressure isn't alleviated somehow by means of GREATER fuel-efficiency, and that also includes ALL fuel vehicles sports car or otherwise, then I'm affraid that following Iraq, Iran will be most likely the next victim. I'm VERY serious about this and if you don't have any relationship with the oil business whatsoever, other than filling your 458 fuel tank once in a while, I apologize to you in advance.

I actually was somewhat related to oil industry. But i was in distribution part and since honestly i've never heard of such theory i neither can deny or confirm but i really think that's highly unlikely because i'm familiar with the potential of countries like Qatar and if world give them green light, they can supply all the countries' oil demand.
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I love Alfas and i had blast during my college days in my Alfa GT. And because of that very same reason i'm sad to see Alfa's sports car fails. But the truth is, things aren't looking fine. Like all the post Giugiaro/De Silva Alfas, the 4C isn't that beautiful. It's cute, but not beautiful like this:


It probably will be very pricey. The engine is not what a real Alfa should have (where are you Alfa V6?) and the DCT only will be a deal breaker for some. I wish Alfa instead followed Miata formula and brought back the Spider. That car would help Alfa better.

[GoingTooFast]

Thank you for your reply. I will ddress the statements that I find relevant:

Originally Posted by Soorena

Knocking on wood, the trans has been a strong piece. A friend's 458C had some electrical issues but that's all i'm aware of. California and SLS owners that i know had no issues with their trans either.

It seems that MY2011 458's were the most affected... I'm glad that yours is not one of them.

Originally Posted by Soorena

Drivers may think they are "changing" gears via paddle shifters however, a computer is doing that for you, doesn't it?

As for the power steering subject, i think your enlargement is invalid. Power gives you assistance in steering, the whole concept of steering is not changed. But can't say the same thing about automatic.

Man, this is getting too philosophical.

Listen, all modern cars nowdays have fly by wire throttle, you press the throttle pedal and it's the computer that opens the throttle for you not the mechanical action of your foot itself, thus I think we should put the subject to a rest or else we will be discussing the 'angels sex'...

Originally Posted by Soorena

I actually was somewhat related to oil industry. But i was in distribution part and since honestly i've never heard of such theory i neither can deny or confirm but i really think that's highly unlikely because i'm familiar with the potential of countries like Qatar and if world give them green light, they can supply all the countries' oil demand.

Qatar was already there before what happened to the Iraq... the fact is Iran has the 4th largest oil reserves in the world (although it ranks third if Canadian reserves of unconventional oil are excluded) right in front of Iraq as of 2012:


Country.......... Reserves 10^9 bbl (oil barrels)

Venezuela............... 296.5
Saudi Arabia............ 265.4
Canada................... 175
Iran......................... 151.2
Iraq......................... 143.1


Qatar only ranks 12th... HUGE difference:

Qatar....................... 25.41


Of that list only Iran is considered an hostile country by the occident mainly the US, as it was Iraq... so you only have to add 1 + 1... but maybe Snowden could explain it better to you.

Originally Posted by Soorena

I love Alfas and i had blast during my college days in my Alfa GT. And because of that very same reason i'm sad to see Alfa's sports car fails. But the truth is, things aren't looking fine. Like all the post Giugiaro/De Silva Alfas, the 4C isn't that beautiful. It's cute, but not beautiful like this:


It probably will be very pricey. The engine is not what a real Alfa should have (where are you Alfa V6?) and the DCT only will be a deal breaker for some. I wish Alfa instead followed Miata formula and brought back the Spider. That car would help Alfa better.

See my next posts for a more complete answer to that...

[GoingTooFast]

I can't find a new car model more beautiful than this... but maybe it's just me :

[GoingTooFast]

As for the price...


Alfa Romeo 4C to debut in U.S. this year

7:17 PM, July 9, 2013



Fiat still plans to introduce the Alfa Romeo 4C sports car in the U.S. this year, the first Alfa offered here since 1995.

“The launches of the Fiat 500L and the return to America of the Fiat 500 and 500c (Cabrio) by Gucci Edition will be followed, as planned, by the Alfa Romeo 4C by the end of this year,” Ranieri said in an email to the Free Press.

About 3,500 4C cars will be built by Maserati in its Modena factory, with about 1,200 of those earmarked for the U.S. The two-seat 4C weighs just 2,100 pounds and will cost about $60,000.


Marchionne wants to relaunch the brand in the U.S. because he believes it is easier to go head-to-head with BMW, Mercedes and Audi here than in Europe.

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[ptack]

If the US dealers haven't heard details about who's selling Alfas in the US, there's no way in hell you'll see one here in 2013. This isn't just about moving a bunch of cars off a boat and to a showroom. If you want to sell the cars you need to service and repair the cars. If that whole logistics train hasn't even left the station there's little chance you'll see more than a token appearance and if that's the case be ready to bid for that token handful.
I would be more hopeful if they were planning to make 30,000 cars instead of 3000. 3000 can become 300 real fast.

[Red Bread]

Thanks GTF for the latest pics and the pricing info. That would truly be fantastic if they can get close to $60k.

Soorena, the next Alfa model is supposed to be based on the ND Miata chassis and could have a version of the 4C motor. That assumes that Mazda is around long enough for that to happen, of course.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by ptack

If the US dealers haven't heard details about who's selling Alfas in the US, there's no way in hell you'll see one here in 2013. This isn't just about moving a bunch of cars off a boat and to a showroom. If you want to sell the cars you need to service and repair the cars. If that whole logistics train hasn't even left the station there's little chance you'll see more than a token appearance and if that's the case be ready to bid for that token handful.
I would be more hopeful if they were planning to make 30,000 cars instead of 3000. 3000 can become 300 real fast.

You saw the pictures, you saw the video... the car is practically all hand-built. With a carbonfiber monocoque those high production numbers are not yet feasible in car industry.

If Chrysler’s senior vice president of communications says in an email recently sent to the Detroit Free Press that the Alfa Romeo 4C will be launched in North America by the end of this year who am I to say otherwise?!

Gualberto Ranieri, Chrysler’s senior vice president of communications, said Fiat and Chrysler wanted to broaden its Fiat lineup in North America before reintroducing Alfa Romeo.

In June, dealers began receiving the Fiat 500L, a four-door car that is the first true new model for the brand in North America since the Fiat brand was relaunched in 2011.

“The launches of the Fiat 500L and the return to America of the Fiat 500 and 500c (Cabrio) by Gucci Edition will be followed, as planned, by the Alfa Romeo 4C by the end of this year,” Ranieri said in an email to the Free Press.

[Red Bread]

To be fair, here in the US, we've been hearing confident sounding people say that Alfa is just months away from returning for many years now.

[GoingTooFast]

The difference is that this time the Alfa Romeo 4C truly exists, I saw it in person... I'm sorry!

Anyway, at the end of this year or at the beginning of the next year... why is that so important?! Is BMW about to launch anything relevant till the end of this year that I've missed?!

The Alfa Romeo 4C has no competition from the germans except for the Cayman and later the Boxster when the 4C Spider is lunched...

[GoingTooFast]

Soorena,

I know this is a little off-topic but it helps us to understand why Fuel-efficiency is of vital importance. All Geopolitics is about energy and oil resources. There's a permanent competition between countries to assure the necessary energy supply for their needs. This is absolutely normal. However, competition can become a question of survival - survival of yours, mine, ours lifestyle. China's (and other BRIC countries) VERY rapid industrialization represents an increasing pressure on the world oil demand and a SERIOUS threat for the world oil supply because China and all the other BRIC countries have HUGE populations. All the political, religion and ethinical differences are an excuse used to fight for those vital resources. Since these differences only exist at very little extent between true democratic countries (mainly the occident) they can't be used as 'JUSTIFIABLE' arguments to start a war - which is the negation of the intended occidental lifestyle preservation in first place - therefore 'Global Warming' and 'Climate Change' was the perfect excuse found among these countries to try to reduce their oil dependency as a 'PEACEFUL' way of still fighting for energy and oil resources. This is a GOOD thing. So, increasingly severe CO2 emissions limits have started to be introduced by those countries as this means greater Fuel-efficiency and higher pressure put on the research for alternative energies. The next step will be to progressively increase fuel prices, which is already happening in Europe and also in the US but not at the same extent - it's only a question of time!

The following videos give us a very comprehensive vision over the main reasons behind all the main conflicts in the world since oil started to be used as the world's main energy source (they are lengthy):

The Secret of the Seven Sisters

[ptack]

I'd love to be able to consider buying a 4C, but this car looks more and more like it a lot of hype that won't be met with it's production and price. A hand made Italian sports car for only $60k??? Yeah, right, only if Alfa is writing this effort off as a marketing expense which will translate into a very small number of cars. At best might be the realization that they can sell this car for a lot more in direct competition with Lotus and Porsche.

[GoingTooFast]

Can you tell me how many BMW 1M's were produced, worldwide?! As far as I know my car isn't hand-built, on the contrary, it was a parts bin from other already existing models... Does this mean that the 1M was a lot of hype?!

[GoingTooFast]

Let me give you some starting numbers to help you out:

Official figure: 6,331 1M's produced (initially 2,700 scheduled).

[Z4inAZ]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

Can you tell me how many BMW 1M's were produced, worldwide?! As far as I know my car isn't hand-built, on the contrary, it was a parts bin from other already existing models... Does this mean that the 1M was a lot of hype?!

Being a parts-bin car doesnt preclude it from being hand-built, but I dont remember having read anything about the 1M being handbuilt. M cars havent been hand built since the E34.

Lot of hype yes but its also a great car, one that helped reinvent BMW's brand image and help make the brand exciting again.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Z4inAZ

Being a parts-bin car doesnt preclude it from being hand-built, but I dont remember having read anything about the 1M being handbuilt.

You are right... I should have said a parts bin largely based on the already existing mass produced 135i model... and yet with such low production numbers that are equivalent to the future production of the hand-built Alfa 4C during two years.

[Moegviralles]

Hi,

I am a big Alfa man, I own several.. (Alfa Romeo 156 GTA and a new Giulietta)

I also have a 4C Launch Edition on pre- order. The 4C Launch editions was more than 2 times over subscribed.. So there is certainly a demand for this car.

For those in the US who are seriously interested in a 4C give me shout, I know a few people in Italy who might be able to assist you in getting your hands on one of the 500 4C Launch Editions to come to the USA.

Cheers

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Moegviralles

Hi,

I am a big Alfa man, I own several.. (Alfa Romeo 156 GTA and a new Giulietta)

I also have a 4C Launch Edition on pre- order. The 4C Launch editions was more than 2 times over subscribed.. So there is certainly a demand for this car.

For those in the US who are seriously interested in a 4C give me shout, I know a few people in Italy who might be able to assist you in getting your hands on one of the 500 4C Launch Editions to come to the USA.

Cheers

Hi,

What is your estimated delivery date? Also, did you get a document similar to this:

[Moegviralles]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

Hi,

What is your estimated delivery date? Also, did you get a document similar to this:

Hi,

That looks like Deppi0's papers.. Am I correct?

I helped him get one

In South Africa our ETA is February 2014..

I am one of the only buyers that has a confirmed serial number out of 1000 LE cars

The pictures of the silver 4C from Whatcar? is that RichardM's pictures and videos?

From these I assume you checking out a few 4C forums..

[Moegviralles]

Originally Posted by Soorena

It probably will be very pricey. The engine is not what a real Alfa should have (where are you Alfa V6?) and the DCT only will be a deal breaker for some. I wish Alfa instead followed Miata formula and brought back the Spider. That car would help Alfa better.

Alfa doesnt have a V6 currently.. They are busy developing a new one.. The Busso V6 is fantastic. However the GM sourced V6 in the Brera and 159's didnt work well

The Mazda/Alfa roadster is coming in 2015 only

And have you seen the 4C in the flesh? Its much better looking than the Brera!

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Moegviralles

Hi,

That looks like Deppi0's papers.. Am I correct?

I helped him get one

In South Africa our ETA is February 2014..

I am one of the only buyers that has a confirmed serial number out of 1000 LE cars

The pictures of the silver 4C from Whatcar? is that RichardM's pictures and videos?

From these I assume you checking out a few 4C forums..

Yes! I'm trying to get my hands on all the available information because I just love the car and I've just missed one of the LE versions allocated to Europe. Can you help me to get one still?!

Are you Perreby? Also, do you happen to know when the Alfa 4C will be available in the US, LE or otherwise?



PS: I've just came across the pictures and videos of the silver 4C from Whatcar.

[Moegviralles]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

Yes! I'm trying to get my hands on all the available information because I just love the car and I've just missed one of the LE versions allocated to Europe. Can you help me to get one still?!

Are you Perreby? Also, do you happen to know when the Alfa 4C will be available in the US, LE or otherwise?



PS: I've just came across the pictures and videos of the silver 4C from Whatcar.

Jip im perreby

Alfa Italy said that straight after the LA Motorshow in the USA the 4C Launch Editions will hit the US shores.. So before the end of the year there will be 4C's in the US (500 Launch editions will make its way to US shores).

The US might get their 4C LE cars before the UK gets theirs..

Alfa and Pirelli developed 2 sets of tires for the 4C.. Normal and "Racing" tires. The Launch Edition will not have the racing tires so one can only assume a more track focused 4C will follow.

And the 4C will be at the UK Festival of Speed from today till the 14th.. And it will be going up the hill climb.

So one can expect a large number of pictures and videos of the 4C to follow soon..

I can do a lot of things but getting you a 4C LE in Europe is impossible.. They were heavily over subscribed. In SA alone more than 30 people wanted one.. And only 13 is coming to South Africa. And we have a waiting list of 150 people for the standard 4C..

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Moegviralles

Jip im perreby

So, should I call you Moegviralles or Mr. Perreby?

Originally Posted by Moegviralles

Alfa Italy said that straight after the LA Motorshow in the USA the 4C Launch Editions will hit the US shores.. So before the end of the year there will be 4C's in the US (500 Launch editions will make its way to US shores).

The US might get their 4C LE cars before the UK gets theirs..

I hope they do because it makes perfectly sense that America get the first ones since the 4C was created to mark the Alfa Romeo comeback to the US market... with flying colors! The rest of us can only be thankful.

Originally Posted by Moegviralles

Alfa and Pirelli developed 2 sets of tires for the 4C.. Normal and "Racing" tires. The Launch Edition will not have the racing tires so one can only assume a more track focused 4C will follow.

And the 4C will be at the UK Festival of Speed from today till the 14th.. And it will be going up the hill climb.

Man, I hope that those 'Racing' rear tires don't be underinflated and that it be strictly forbidden to swap them round if they have an asymmetric structure, which means that they are not designed to be interchangeable, or else they may start to disintegrate going up the hill climb as it was the case in the Silverstone F1 Grandprix... just kidding!

Originally Posted by Moegviralles

So one can expect a large number of pictures and videos of the 4C to follow soon..

I'm looking forward to it...

Originally Posted by Moegviralles

I can do a lot of things but getting you a 4C LE in Europe is impossible.. They were heavily over subscribed. In SA alone more than 30 people wanted one.. And only 13 is coming to South Africa. And we have a waiting list of 150 people for the standard 4C..

I know that, unfortunately... I was just kidding! But, you can always sell me yours.

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