E92 M3 vs C7 Corvette Stingray from Edmunds

[dmk08]

So has anyone from here picked up their C7 yet?

[lve2xlr8]

Originally Posted by dmk08

So has anyone from here picked up their C7 yet?

+1 Looking forward to some lengthy comparisons

[Onurleft]

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

If you load up an M3 up with almost every option available you will be looking at $93-$95K plus car. No matter how you cut it C7 can be had for appx. $15K cheaper.

A fully loaded 2013 convertible MSRP 82k. A fully loaded DCT Lime Rock M3 is around 76k. Nobody paid even close to MSRP (again Peake BMW in New Orleans was offering 9-11k off loaded convertibles in 2011) for these fully optioned cars except the people who pre ordered them.

Yes, M3 has daily driveability but so does C7. Only difference is that M3 can hold 4 people in a crunch. Because of that advantage it suffers from way too much weight and is less capable performance machine on track.

Old vs New
New vs New = very similar weight

As for the new M3/M4 it will be more expensive then the last one.

Marginally, it's not announced. Most likely it'll be the same but adjusted to a 2% inflation rate over a period of 6-7 years.

It has less power then the C7 and will not weigh less then a C7.

Nobody has dyno'd an F30 M3. F10 M5's make 500's and are rated at 560. 1M dyno low 300's and are rated at 340hp. The new F30 is rated at 430, and a new C7 dyno's 400rwhp.

As for having low 12 sec. don't get your hopes up too high as that is reserved for M5 and M6.

These cars have run 11's@120+ without launch control.

As for laguna race track C7 will come out on top.

It is a two seater sports car with very wide tires..

On the side note I have a highly modified E92 M3 on GT simulator game and my lap times for stock C7 are faster then a highly modified M3.

I'm sure you do

[lve2xlr8]

Originally Posted by Onurleft

Marginally, it's not announced. Most likely it'll be the same but adjusted to a 2% inflation rate over a period of 6-7 years.

Highly doubtful considering the e46 started at $46,000 and the e92 at $57,000. Expect the m3 to start in the mid 60's lowest.

Originally Posted by Onurleft

It is a two seater sports car with very wide tires..

245/285...not the much wider.

I think the m4 will be an awesome performer, but artificial engine sounds and a higher price point are extremely deterring.

[Onurleft]

Originally Posted by lve2xlr8

Highly doubtful considering the e46 started at $46,000 and the e92 at $57,000. Expect the m3 to start in the mid 60's lowest.

That's a good guess. At a 2% inflation rate the price of the E92 should've been in the $53,000 neighborhood.
Edit: An F30 should ring in around $64,000 if you calculate is based on inflation. However the E46 went from coupe only to E90/2 which might explain the significant jump.
But don't forget car companies that've survived the world economic collapse are producing better cars for LESS.
A 14' F30 335i M sport is $58,000, a 2007 335i loaded was $56,000.

245/285...not the much wider.

Yeah i'm surprised they didn't go for more compared to the 05' Z51

I think the m4 will be an awesome performer, but artificial engine sounds and a higher price point are extremely deterring.

It's always had a higher price, but and serious deviation from the past will be complimented by options like carbon brakes, DCT. These options would change the price of a C7 by a very similar margin.

[Kayani_1]

My reply to you in corvette torch red....lol

Originally Posted by Onurleft

A fully loaded 2013 convertible MSRP 82k. A fully loaded DCT Lime Rock M3 is around 76k. Nobody paid even close to MSRP (again Peake BMW in New Orleans was offering 9-11k off loaded convertibles in 2011) for these fully optioned cars except the people who pre ordered them.

A fully loaded and a car with full leather dash boards and two tone custom leathers with optional steering trims and gear shift levers, as well as custom roof materials are all part of individual package. So compare apples to apples and oranges to apples. The 3LT in Corvette is equal to custom individual package of BMW's.

Second, are you serious in comparing a high demand first year C7 to a 7 year old E92 M3 with regards to pricing. Show me how many M3's could be had for 9-11K off when they were newly introduced or show me when you get your brand new M4 for 9-11K off next year. Lets call it like it is no matter how u cut it the new M4/M3 are $15K more then a similarly equipped C7.


Old vs New
New vs New = very similar weight

Old vs New or New vs New the advantage will be in favor of C7. When the production version of M4 is tested. Please come back an report what how much lighter it would be then C7 with all CF being used.....lol. Most fully loaded C7 tested are around 3444-3460 lb range and for M3/M4 it will be in 3495-3480 lb range. That is to take into account 175 lb weight saving over a E92 M3 comp. pkg with DCT. Because such an E92 M3 was measured at or appx. around close to 3560 lbs by major publications in real world.

Marginally, it's not announced. Most likely it'll be the same but adjusted to a 2% inflation rate over a period of 6-7 years.

Once again do not keep your hopes too high. The M4/M3 will be more expensive then the current generation. Your optimistic guess of 2% increase is yet to be seen. It will be close to $60K-61K range. This means base to base you are looking at close to $9K difference right off the bat. I think you are forgetting that sole purpose of bringing the 4 series was to increase price and profits. If M3 starts at $59.9K expect the M4 to be in $62K range. The coupe have been traditionally more expensive but not as much the new grancoupe. The grancoupe M4 will take the price up to disgusting levels of near $65 range with convertible coming in right close to that range. To that I say no thank you. I will take the C7 with removable targa top in different types and enjoy both open top and close top for a lot less. I think waiting 3 years from now and picking up a M4 grancoupe for under a lil under $50K fully loaded vs $90K fully loaded would make more sense.

Nobody has dyno'd an F30 M3. F10 M5's make 500's and are rated at 560. 1M dyno low 300's and are rated at 340hp. The new F30 is rated at 430, and a new C7 dyno's 400rwhp.

If nobody has a dyno figures for F30 M3/M4. Then at this point it is all assumptions. All we can go by is BMW claiming that it will be near 430hp. As for BMW underestimating I am fully aware of that fact as I have owned a few. The question is by how much will M3/M4 be under rated?. When you have concrete information we can come back to discuss it. Until then we can stick to C7 which has been dynoed at 400-411 rwhp for few early examples. If we stick to conservative estimates of 15% drive train losses. Then it is a bit under rated as well because you are looking at 473-460hp at the rear wheel. Add the optional exhaust on top and you are looking at even higher numbers. All this without a turbo or supercharger from a NA application.



These cars have run 11's@120+ without launch control.

The M5 figures you mentioned are with M-DCT transmission

Go to a manual 6-speed and the figure you quoted drop close to mid 12's range.

12.3 @ 116.7 mph Road and track
12.5 @ 116.6 mph by motor trend

So far we know all the corvettes tested have been the 7-speed manual variety and it is well known fact in corvette community that the automatic despite not being the DCT variety will be faster in overall shift speed and easier to launch and more consistent. Thus, lets compare apples to apples again. Based on the info above one can make an inference that you will be looking at a manual 6-speed M3/M4 to be be in 12.6-12.8 sec range at best.A M3/M4 is over 130hp and 110 lb-ft down to M5 and M6 in power and the weight difference alone is not enough to make up the huge defect in power.

The new C7 with manual transmission has been reported as fast as 12.0 @ 118 mph, 12.2 @ 117.3 and 12.5 @ 116..............This here is M5/M6 6-speed manual territory with 560hp/500lb-ft:bulge..........C7 is fast :.



It is a two seater sports car with very wide tires..

It is a pure sports car very true where as M3/M4 are not and that will be more evident once they meet on track. As for the tire comment a bit more research might benefit here. A Z51 pkg C7 is wearing much smaller tires then last generation C6 the rears are 285 width now inline with what new M3/M4 will be pretty much wearing. The C7 went with smaller tire setup and beat cars like Porsche 911 wearing huge rear tire size of 305 width





I'm sure you do

Yes, I do. Try it and then come back and report it. It will be no different in real world under similar conditions on track with same driver back to back C7 will be faster then M3/M4.

[swanson]

Headers only. NO tune. Enjoy

[fusionchicken]

^ dat exhaust note...

There was a thread on CF forum mentioning something like a 30whp gain with just a tune IIRC...I'm loving the LT1 so far that's for sure

[dmk08]

That thing sounds great. I can't wait to see the Z06 or Z07 or whatever it is going to be called. It should be in the same price range as an M4.

[speedaddictM3]

Originally Posted by dmk08

That thing sounds great. I can't wait to see the Z06 or Z07 or whatever it is going to be called. It should be in the same price range as an M4.

but in a completely different universe as far as performance goes. I won't be surprised if it smokes a 458 Italia or SLS Black!!!

[MFL]

To be fair, they're not comparing this to the M4 yet. They're comparing their new car to a 6 year old design.

[V8FunNaturally]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

What i need to read more my friend.?.... that the ///M3-4 has 2 turbo's with about 450 HP and it's faster than ///M3 9X !
Don't forget that i'm living about a 20min. drive from Germany,and that i have seen and heard new ///M3-4 !(sounds almost like new ///M5-6....like shit !)
And you are very excited to see the 4.0 V8 go ???
That i can see...you drive a 335 i and actualy this is not your place, and judge over the V8...go drive one...and let's talk again !
So my friend ...i think i know more about new ///M3-4 even with or without reading !
BTW...how many people have bought this year the S65 and knowing the production ends ...why?
To have the last NA V8 in a ///M car !!!
BTW...I realy like the design of the new ///M4 in person

+10,000
Glad you replied to that. Looks like whenever someone talks it is an "almost an ///M" owner.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by MFL

To be fair, they're not comparing this to the M4 yet. They're comparing their new car to a 6 year old design.

Well they compare it to what is available. You can't blame them for that.

Stock vs Stock I got my money on the Stingray vs an M4. Heads/Cam on a stingray will probably cost the same as basic mods on an M4. Not to mention the likely overpriced M4 will be upwards of 20k more to start.

[Foxrus14]

Originally Posted by Nater

Indeed it will, however it will be called the Z07 when it does!

Will not be called the Z07... What is your train of thought on this?

[Foxrus14]

Do you all honestly think the new M3/M4 will be even close to the C7? I mean honestly... We aren't talking wishful thinking. They aren't in the same class.

[phoenixbmwlife]

Originally Posted by dmk08

That thing sounds great. I can't wait to see the Z06 or Z07 or whatever it is going to be called. It should be in the same price range as an M4.

Actually I think its going to be maybe $20k+ more than an M4. I heard starting prices close to $90k+

its going to have close to ZR1 performance

[PA Z06]

Great article, If I can have two cars I would love a c7 for the track, but to only have one I like have some kind of back seat for the little one

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by K3N R3D

Actually I think its going to be maybe $20k+ more than an M4. I heard starting prices close to $90k+

its going to have close to ZR1 performance

Lol doubtful. The M4 loaded will be in the 80s.

[M340i Pride]

Stop comparing a vette vs an M! two different cars, with different goals, both awesome in its own rights.

But keep comparing PERFORMANCE only will make M look bad... stop, stop it I say. M will NEVER be close to a vette's performance level. that's not what M will be about, or can it be.

Vette is a budget man's Ferrari, and it posts Ferrari like numbers. A hard core sports car with more bang for a buck performance than ANY CAR EVER BUILT. It was and it will continue to be.

M is a class of its own, jack of all trades. It does EVERYTHING great. It is bang for a buck do everything great car EVER BUILT. it was and it will continue to be.

So stop comparing both at the performance level. not a fair one for an M. I drive a vette and love it, but I will always love the M too...

[Ashley Schaeffer BMW]

Stop comparing cars in an M3 vs "...." forum???

Its a discussion forum. Perhaps this isnt the kind of place for you.

[quiksi]

I optioned a 1LT Z51 with competition seats, magnetic shocks, performance exhaust and navi for $61k MSRP - that is a KILLER deal - too bad it won't carry 2 child seats

[phoenixbmwlife]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Lol doubtful. The M4 loaded will be in the 80s.

Not loaded M4. I was talking about the starting price on the Z07 should be in the 90 -100k so a loaded Z07 will be 100k+ Not in the same price range as an M4

This article doesn't say how much it will be but it hints on a $100k+ Z07

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2013/08/...ed-z07-report/