F30 M3: what the future holds (speculation)

[chicagobimmerboy]

well things are rapidly changing for BMW, large displacment engines are being yanked, the F01 displays all the new trends; styling and technological that will trickle down to the all other models. With that said what does the future hold for the M3? well we will need to wait 3-4 years till the F10 M5 comes out to determine for sure that will happen.

But just to make things interesting lets gather some ideas of what the next M3 may be like.

Here is what I forsee comeing, feel free to add to or critique.

F30 M3:

Engines:
4.0 V8 or 3.0 I6: Direct Injection, camless technology, 450 HP 350 FTLBS TQ. 8500-10,000 RPM Redline.

Body/chassis:
All aluminum version of the 3 series chassis, aluminum doors, hood, bootlid, carbon fiber roof, mirrors, fenders.

Running gear:
19 in. wheels, Pirelli Pzero or PS2 Cup tires. Optional CBS (ceramic brake system).

Weight: 3200-3400 LBS

Performance? who really knows?
Price? over 60K for sure.
Styling? look to the F01 for hints.


Well what do you all think? any ideas or changes you would like to see?

[bmstyle71]

A little more than 450 horses I'd think.

[jworms]

Originally Posted by bmstyle71

A little more than 450 horses I'd think.

yeah, definitely more power to handle the extra weight they will inevitably pack on the thing.


EDIT - my guess:

3600-3700lbs
brand new engine: 475hp 4-4.5 liter v8 (8500-9000RPM redline)
OR maybe use an already existing engine: 475-500hp 4.4 liter DI turbo (X6 engine) OR M5/M6 5 liter V10 w/ 515-520hp
multi-pot braking system with ceramic option
similar tire options as the e92 has. expect michelin pilot cup sports as an option.
even better/fast DCT/DKG with 7 or 8 speeds...no lag


the camless stuff is an interesting idea. i have been wondering when car manufacturers would finally take advantage of that technology. imagine cars revving to 10,000+ RPM with ease.

[JEllis]

The future is lighter weight and smaller displacement and probably less power but better performance...probably two generations away though... I fear what the immediate future holds for M's

Jason

[MJC///M3]

i sincerely hope more than 450HP.

mabye somewhere in the 475 HP range would be nice!

[kmarei]

is this what we predict will happen or the wishful thinking thread?

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by kmarei

is this what we predict will happen or the wishful thinking thread?

+1

I can't really see a reason for M to add much more power to the M3. I predict more weight loss than anything else.

Let's not forget that the M3 has to sit behind the M5 in power by a decent margin. I think the F10 M5 is rumored to be sporting 550hp, so the most the M3 will go up to is 450. If M is going to change their ways and go with FI, then you can kiss the V8 goodbye in the M3. It will go to a I6TT. If M is going FI, then they aren't going to be half assed about it.

Ceramic brakes on a oem M3? I think not. If for no other reason than that ceramic brakes offer no brake feeling, and for a car that has to be fun to drive for the consumer market that just won't do. The M3 isn't a super car, it is a daily driver/weekend track car.

[duk]

im fine with 450hp even 430hp, the key is power to weight ratio

i want the next m3 to be at least 200lb less

[booforty]

yep, improvement in the power to weight ratio is key plus maintaining the critical 50:50 weight distribution

[bigjae1976]

If you look at the progression in the 6 cyl M3s (286 E36 to 333 E46) I wouldn't expect a huge increase in power. I'll guess 470hp.

Hopefully, the next M3 will have fixed calipers and less weight.

[haen]

Originally Posted by chicagobimmerboy

Engines:
4.0 V8 or 3.0 I6: Direct Injection, camless technology, 450 HP 350 FTLBS TQ. 8500-10,000 RPM Redline.

I think we're going to see something more along the lines of twin turbo inline 6. It would be less weight than the V8 and give better fuel consumption. BMW has already hinted at the next generation of M cars using forced induction. Don't think that just because BMW drops 2 cylinders for 2 turbos that power is going to be down. I would expect power to be the same or slightly higher, but most importantly, torque will be way up. You should hope that the next M3 loses weight as opposed to gaining more power because that's going to improve every aspect of performance, not just straight line speed.

Originally Posted by chicagobimmerboy

Body/chassis:
All aluminum version of the 3 series chassis, aluminum doors, hood, bootlid, carbon fiber roof, mirrors, fenders.

Unless the regular 3 series uses an aluminum chassis, I don't think the M3 will get it's own aluminum chassis. But, the Z06 has an aluminum chassis when the base C6 uses a steel version. It could happen; I just wouldn't get my hopes up. Anyways, M engineers have a say in the design and development of the basic 3 series chassis so it's not like the base chassis is anything to scoff at (AMG, RS and F can't boast that stat).

Originally Posted by chicagobimmerboy

Running gear:
19 in. wheels, Pirelli Pzero or PS2 Cup tires. Optional CBS (ceramic brake system).

Ceramic brakes are supposed to make a debut on the next generation of M cars but they may too expensive for M3 and be kept to the M5/6 price range. Personally, I just want fixed piston calipers with more than one or two pistons! BMW really skimps there. The 135 has better brakes than the M3.

Originally Posted by chicagobimmerboy

Weight: 3200-3400 LBS

That would be a nice target weight. It's not all that unrealistic either. I don't see the car going below 3,200lbs unless the next generation is smaller. BMW did state that the next generation of the 3 series will be lighter than the current model though.

So to sum it up, this is what I would expect.
Drivetrain
Engine - Inline 6 w/ direct injection and twin turbo. Start stop technology and other efficiency boosting tech.
Transmission - manual and 7-8 speed DCT
Differential - Dynamic Performance Control (DPC) like found on the X6
Brakes - Fixed piston brakes with iron rotors with option of ceramic rotors
Wheels - 18" standard with optional 19"s as BMW loves to charge people extra for bigger rims if they can get away with it.

Chassis - steel chassis with aluminum suspension parts. Magnesium will probably pop up in certain places. The inline 6 on the e90 330i used magnesium.
Body panels - the hood, fenders, roof and trunk will all be CF and the rest will be aluminum or plastic

Interior - much of the same but hopefully no power seats. That's an easy way to save 150lbs!!

I hope I didn't forget anything!

[MonteCarloM3]

AWD?
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=433999

[crackberry]

Originally Posted by haen

So to sum it up, this is what I would expect.
Drivetrain
Engine - Inline 6 w/ direct injection and twin turbo. Start stop technology and other efficiency boosting tech.
Transmission - manual and 7-8 speed DCT
Differential - Dynamic Performance Control (DPC) like found on the X6
Brakes - Fixed piston brakes with iron rotors with option of ceramic rotors
Wheels - 18" standard with optional 19"s as BMW loves to charge people extra for bigger rims if they can get away with it.

Chassis - steel chassis with aluminum suspension parts. Magnesium will probably pop up in certain places. The inline 6 on the e90 330i used magnesium.
Body panels - the hood, fenders, roof and trunk will all be CF and the rest will be aluminum or plastic

Interior - much of the same but hopefully no power seats. That's an easy way to save 150lbs!!

I hope I didn't forget anything!

wow, great read.

[Poppin Fresh]

I predict numerous HPFP failures....

[FredVMI]

Originally Posted by haen

I think we're going to see something more along the lines of twin turbo inline 6. It would be less weight than the V8 and give better fuel consumption. BMW has already hinted at the next generation of M cars using forced induction. Don't think that just because BMW drops 2 cylinders for 2 turbos that power is going to be down. I would expect power to be the same or slightly higher, but most importantly, torque will be way up. You should hope that the next M3 loses weight as opposed to gaining more power because that's going to improve every aspect of performance, not just straight line speed.


Unless the regular 3 series uses an aluminum chassis, I don't think the M3 will get it's own aluminum chassis. But, the Z06 has an aluminum chassis when the base C6 uses a steel version. It could happen; I just wouldn't get my hopes up. Anyways, M engineers have a say in the design and development of the basic 3 series chassis so it's not like the base chassis is anything to scoff at (AMG, RS and F can't boast that stat).


Ceramic brakes are supposed to make a debut on the next generation of M cars but they may too expensive for M3 and be kept to the M5/6 price range. Personally, I just want fixed piston calipers with more than one or two pistons! BMW really skimps there. The 135 has better brakes than the M3.


That would be a nice target weight. It's not all that unrealistic either. I don't see the car going below 3,200lbs unless the next generation is smaller. BMW did state that the next generation of the 3 series will be lighter than the current model though.

So to sum it up, this is what I would expect.
Drivetrain
Engine - Inline 6 w/ direct injection and twin turbo. Start stop technology and other efficiency boosting tech.
Transmission - manual and 7-8 speed DCT
Differential - Dynamic Performance Control (DPC) like found on the X6
Brakes - Fixed piston brakes with iron rotors with option of ceramic rotors
Wheels - 18" standard with optional 19"s as BMW loves to charge people extra for bigger rims if they can get away with it.

Chassis - steel chassis with aluminum suspension parts. Magnesium will probably pop up in certain places. The inline 6 on the e90 330i used magnesium.
Body panels - the hood, fenders, roof and trunk will all be CF and the rest will be aluminum or plastic

Interior - much of the same but hopefully no power seats. That's an easy way to save 150lbs!!

I hope I didn't forget anything!

Very well done. We're all speculating on the future, but, I feel this summary will be close to what we'll see (with the possible exception of some of the CF panels). One thing is a virtual certainty: the V8 will be history.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by chicagobimmerboy

Here is what I forsee comeing, feel free to add to or critique.

Engines:
4.0 V8 or 3.0 I6: Direct Injection, camless technology, 450 HP 350 FTLBS TQ. 8500-10,000 RPM Redline.

IMHO, no chance for:

4L V8
camless valvetrain
8500-10000 RPM redline

It's going to be an I6 turbo, probably 3L over 450hp (480hp is my guess) and probably about 400 ft-lbs of torque. And yes it will have direct injection like all BMW turbocharged motors do. Red line will not be over 7500 RPM and probably 7000 RPM or maybe 7200 RPM at the most.

Body/chassis:
All aluminum version of the 3 series chassis, aluminum doors, hood, bootlid, carbon fiber roof, mirrors, fenders.

IMHO, there's no way they'll use a special lightweight version of the F3x chassis. It's going to the same exact stamped steel unibody. It might get more welds (like the E9x M3 gets today). Aluminum doors are unlikely, as are carbon fiber fenders. The rest is basically what we have today.

Running gear:
19 in. wheels, Pirelli Pzero or PS2 Cup tires. Optional CBS (ceramic brake system).

I doubt the optional ceramic brakes simply because of the price they tend to command.

Weight: 3200-3400 LBS

3600 lbs.

They may advertise higher. Though they may not. The current car is said to be 3700 lbs by BMW but typically weighs in around 3500 lbs on scales. I am starting to wonder if they did not advertise the higher weight in order to hedge bets for the next generation car. If it weighs in at 3600 lbs and they advertise it as such, they can claim a lower weight, even though it will actually be heavier.

Performance? who really knows?
Price? over 60K for sure.

Yeah, starting price will be in the high 60s. They won't go all the way to 70k.

[karussell]

can we make requests here? if so i want a Diesel M3 Touring. Its going to be bigger since the 3 series will be bigger. might as well make it even more useful than the sedan which they said the would discontinue. i would be happy with an M3 diesel touring. 700ftlb of twist should be about enough.

[MrHarris]

I'd say 470-490hp, with a 7500-8000 redline...

[duk]

I am fine with 450hp, but tq around 340-350 AND weight reduction is KEY.

[PKL]

Originally Posted by Poppin Fresh

I predict numerous HPFP failures....

+1

[ILC32]

460 hp

[roryfcs]

Almost certainly a move toward forced induction.