Jeremy Clarkson on the M3

[kmarei]

"M3 is one of the most perfectly balanced machines ever created by man. It makes an F-16 fighter jet look ungainly and lumpen. "

in the article about the 135 cabrio
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/dri...cle6849621.ece

[jrlee53]

Nice, Clarkson's reviews are always spot on as usual.

[B.Hallowell]

I love Clarkson. <3 <3 <3

"M3 drivers have no friends."

[foosh]

Did you guys actually read the article, which I didn't read as terribly flattering to BMW? It was about the aspects of cars that give us "joy" and "make us smile."

With regard to BMW he says:

"Strangely, however, the one car company that rarely gives me any joy is BMW. It’s why I would never buy one of its cars.

That’s not to say its cars are no good. The new Z4 is marvellous and the M3 is one of the most perfectly balanced machines ever created by man. It makes an F-16 fighter jet look ungainly and lumpen.

However, you always get the sense with a BMW that science has ruled the roost throughout the entire design process; that anything with a bit of flair or panache has been ditched to make way for another equation. And as for the line, “We realised a long time ago that what you make people feel is just as important as what you make”?

[B.Hallowell]

I did read it and here is where you have to take Jeremy Clarkson for his entertainment vaule, because he has bought a BMW before. He has owned a e60 M5 and loved it. Also in the review video of the e92 M3 vs RS4 vs C63 AMG he says the M3 is still the best and the others are copies, great copies in fact, but copies never the less. He also again states in this article the magnificence of the M3. I have a feeling he keeps regular BMWs and M cars seperate (being he's owned a M5 and loves the M3).

Originally Posted by foosh

Did you guys actually read the article, which I didn't read as terribly flattering to BMW? It was about the aspects of cars that give us "joy" and "make us smile."

With regard to BMW he says:

"Strangely, however, the one car company that rarely gives me any joy is BMW. It’s why I would never buy one of its cars.

That’s not to say its cars are no good. The new Z4 is marvellous and the M3 is one of the most perfectly balanced machines ever created by man. It makes an F-16 fighter jet look ungainly and lumpen.

However, you always get the sense with a BMW that science has ruled the roost throughout the entire design process; that anything with a bit of flair or panache has been ditched to make way for another equation. And as for the line, “We realised a long time ago that what you make people feel is just as important as what you make”?

[FStop7]

I don't get Clarkson - on the Top Gear TV show he absolutely loved the GTR. But on one of his videos he criticized it pretty strongly, as he also did in a written review. He's very inconsistent, which is why I don't really pay him any heed when it comes to his opinions of cars.

[MMMorish]

If I'm not mistaken, I remember reading somewhere that he's also owned (maybe still does) an E90 M.

[B.Hallowell]

Clarkson for me is great entertainment and I leave it at that. He makes me laugh when I need it mostly.

[immiketoo]

Still, he's entertaining and he has something negative to say about almost every car.

[Subw00er]

I think there is truth in what Clarkson says about BMW's. After owning three (325xi, z4 3.0i and e92 M3) of them (five if you include motorcycles, which for this argument would make sense to include), I would agree that BMW designers tend to engineer the spirit and virility out of their machines.

I think if you've owned a car with a lot of character, you'll know what Clarkson and I are referring to. It is a hard thing to describe - when a car has character. Strangely, sometimes, a car has to be bad to have character. It may be something quirky it does, or a design element which is unique. Sometimes it how it corners, it could be a little mid-range boost of power, or perhaps it gets tail happy at the limit. I think cars with character tend to test and demand more from a driver at the limit and this is what makes them more interesting. It can be paralleled to taming a wild horse.. I think its that synergy between driver and car that creates the bond.

The problem with BMW's in this regard is that they are too good, too balanced and too well engineered. I think this is partially why I miss my z06 - that car simply excelled at character.

[3XTR3M3]

Clarkson is THEE Epic Troll

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by Subw00er

I think there is truth in what Clarkson says about BMW's. After owning three (325xi, z4 3.0i and e92 M3) of them (five if you include motorcycles, which for this argument would make sense to include), I would agree that BMW designers tend to engineer the spirit and virility out of their machines.

I think if you've owned a car with a lot of character, you'll know what Clarkson and I are referring to. It is a hard thing to describe - when a car has character. Strangely, sometimes, a car has to be bad to have character. It may be something quirky it does, or a design element which is unique. Sometimes it how it corners, it could be a little mid-range boost of power, or perhaps it gets tail happy at the limit. I think cars with character tend to test and demand more from a driver at the limit and this is what makes them more interesting. It can be paralleled to taming a wild horse.. I think its that synergy between driver and car that creates the bond.

The problem with BMW's in this regard is that they are too good, too balanced and too well engineered. I think this is partially why I miss my z06 - that car simply excelled at character.

agree 100%
you want character try a M3 E30
now with DSC, DCT, idrive, etc
the cars are becoming machines
BMW is heading in the same direction Audi is
perfect reliable machines with little charchter
if you look at E30 then E36 then E46 then the currect E92 M3s
they are getting more polished
but they are also getting more grown up
more civilized i guess
and if i could have a brand new E30 M3 or a brand new E92 M3
i would def pick the E30
even though the E92 would run rings around the E30
the E30 was more fun to drive
and it had more character

but to be fair
no one else, excluding porsche, makes fun cars to drive as a general principle
some manufacturers make fun models
but not as many as BMW

[GT3 Tim]

He is entertainment...

I like how he says all BMW owners are cocks.

Also, how he dressed up the one time before driving a BMW. Polo shirt with collar up, funky shades, etc. lol. Fricken entertainment, that's all.

[Subw00er]

Originally Posted by GT3 Tim

Polo shirt with collar up, funky shades, etc.

Haha that's funny - thats the picture I get when reading some of the posts here (although I would have swapped funky glasses for overpriced watches). Clarkson for president!

[Insert board-wide insult here]
I'd be willing to bet that half the people here walk around with popped Polo collars, wear over-sprayed & obnoxious cologne and know how to shine their cars more than actually how to drive them. Its all about the bling, well... isn't it?

My apologies in advance for the plethora of the board members I've just insulted.

[Green///Hell]

Well from Clarkson that's a huge compliment, I would've expected worse.

He's going after BMW as a whole and I agree with him. Throughout the product line its become very soft and green and boring. I feel the M cars and the N54/N55 engine is keeping them afloat.
Outside of that, BMW doesn't really offer cars I would want to buy

[pepper]

Originally Posted by Subw00er

[Insert board-wide insult here]
I'd be willing to bet that half the people here walk around with popped Polo collars, wear over-sprayed & obnoxious cologne and know how to shine their cars more than actually how to drive them. Its all about the bling, well... isn't it?

well I'm not one of them at least..

-holes in my shirt
-never washed my car
-wears dirty jeans in the car
-I don't own cologne
-I don't own a pair of sunglasses
-I don't own a polo shirt
...


I guess I'm to dirty for this car come to think of it

[foosh]

Originally Posted by Subw00er

I think there is truth in what Clarkson says about BMW's. After owning three (325xi, z4 3.0i and e92 M3) of them (five if you include motorcycles, which for this argument would make sense to include), I would agree that BMW designers tend to engineer the spirit and virility out of their machines.

I think if you've owned a car with a lot of character, you'll know what Clarkson and I are referring to. It is a hard thing to describe - when a car has character. Strangely, sometimes, a car has to be bad to have character. It may be something quirky it does, or a design element which is unique. Sometimes it how it corners, it could be a little mid-range boost of power, or perhaps it gets tail happy at the limit. I think cars with character tend to test and demand more from a driver at the limit and this is what makes them more interesting. It can be paralleled to taming a wild horse.. I think its that synergy between driver and car that creates the bond.

The problem with BMW's in this regard is that they are too good, too balanced and too well engineered. I think this is partially why I miss my z06 - that car simply excelled at character.

Agreed, my C6 Z06 definitely had "character" and my Lotus Elise definitely has both "character and soul." The latter is nasty, loud, bone-jarring, and a terrible daily driver, but my goodness do I have a smile on my face when I drive it. On a track or on smooth twisties, it is pure perfection, even though it is far from fast in a straight line.

[Serious]

clarkson never owned an e60 m5 nor an e90 m3.

IIRC the only recent BMW he or his wife has owned was a z4. Although back in the day he used to have an original 3.0 csl.

[Voltigeur]

-

Typical Clarkson: he's an exercise in hyperbole. But then, he plays very cleverly to his audience (and this is NOT a dig at the OP ). He likes to polarize opinion.

The 135i is not that bad; nor can the M3 pull the G's of an F-16: one of the most successful multi-role fighter platforms ever designed. Just think: the F-16 was designed in the 1970s and countries, e.g. Taiwan, are desiring to place an order on an updated block.

[Serious]

Originally Posted by Voltigeur

-

Typical Clarkson: he's an exercise in hyperbole. But then, he plays very cleverly to his audience (and this is NOT a dig at the OP ). He likes to polarize opinion.

The 135i is not that bad; nor can the M3 pull the G's of an F-16: one of the most successful multi-role fighter platforms ever designed. Just think: the F-16 was designed in the 1970s and countries, e.g. Taiwan, are desiring to place an order on an updated block.

I could pull 9g's in an m3.



































































Ill just crash it into a wall at 40mph.

[B.Hallowell]

Originally Posted by seriousm3

clarkson never owned an e60 m5 nor an e90 m3.

IIRC the only recent BMW he or his wife has owned was a z4. Although back in the day he used to have an original 3.0 csl.

you are correct sir. My bad about the M5.

[sirploppy]

Did you see what it did to his neck?

Originally Posted by FStop7

I don't get Clarkson - on the Top Gear TV show he absolutely loved the GTR. But on one of his videos he criticized it pretty strongly, as he also did in a written review. He's very inconsistent, which is why I don't really pay him any heed when it comes to his opinions of cars.