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11-15-2013, 01:27 AM | #23 |
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I was there that day. Although I didn't see the crash happen (was in a different run group) this is what I heard. This was a beginner session. The driver was all over the track in the previous session, had no sense of car control, traction control off. From what I heard this was a cool down lap (last lap). MY theory is that I believe that the driver didn't see the checkered flag on the straight/oval and coming into T3 didn't anticipate how much slower the driver in front of him would be moving. What follows is what you see in the video. Also someone asked why the camaro was so far to the right, that's the driving line. You can look up some videos on youtube but that's the line everyone takes. Driver was taken by ambulance to the hospital and the track was shut down for about 1.5 hours until they could get the ambulance back.
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11-15-2013, 08:49 AM | #24 |
Track? What Track? I was just riding along . . .
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Whatever the cause, I hate to see that happen to anybody. Sometimes students fail to execute their instructor's directives, and chaos ensues. It's a learning curve, and some people climb it more slowly than others.
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11-15-2013, 10:37 AM | #25 |
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I agree that he probably missed the checker on the oval cause his rate of speed relative to the Camaro was very high. Hard to see brake lights but I think he panicked and braked and turned trying to cut off the corner to avoid the other car, thus a massive and ill-timed "trail-brake" thru a dusty infield at high speed with predictable outcome.
Instructor should have reined him in awhile back... Hope they are both OK.
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11-15-2013, 10:45 AM | #26 |
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Instructors are not mandated in the beginner group with this org. Its an additional fee. Some people fail to see that getting instruction is beneficial in the early stages. I started with cca and go to there two track days a year so that i can get the instruction every six months or so.
But these are the types of drivers i am cautious about - balls to the walls hero types with no skill or training. Hope he is ok and learns from this. |
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11-15-2013, 11:45 AM | #27 | |
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Structured programs from BMWCCA and PCA are the best way to start as a beginner. I remember the first time that I went to a ExtremeSpeed event after coming out of BMWCCA. The overall chaos and disorganization was disturbing. BRP looked like a big dust bowl with cars going off one after another. Disconcerting to say the least.
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11-15-2013, 11:48 AM | #28 |
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^lol
5 of my first 7 track days were with Extreme Speed (the other 2 being with Speed District). After a stint like that, I'm not fazed by anything, lolz.
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11-15-2013, 11:54 AM | #29 |
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wow, made a series of very poor decisions and paid for it. seeing the checkered flag, observing your closing rate, knowing about the run off, not yanking the wheel inside, any one would have probably saved this.
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11-15-2013, 12:02 PM | #30 |
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Yes, I'm numb to it now. Not sure if that is a good thing or not.
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11-15-2013, 12:03 PM | #31 |
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Well, it prep'd us for Speed Trial USA event over the weekend.
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11-15-2013, 12:17 PM | #32 |
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Anyhow, back on topic.
I know this track fairly well and, at the moment when this car started turning, it seems like there was plenty of room between it and the car in front. And, it's not like the car in front came to a complete stop.
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11-15-2013, 12:23 PM | #33 |
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Yeah thats what I was seeing also which lead me to beleive there was something that went wrong with the car.
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11-15-2013, 12:25 PM | #34 |
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Yeah. Or, the newbie driver panicked & turned when his car was closing in on the front car faster than during hot laps.
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11-15-2013, 12:41 PM | #35 |
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note to self - never run with any organization that lets beginners on the track with no instructor. around here there are 4 runs groups in the HPDE organizations. the bottom two have an instructor 100% of the time. you don't get to run solo until you clear those two. after that it is check rides to move up or the CDI may throw an instructor in your car any time he wants just to make sure you are where you belong. i am never going to turn down an instructor giving me feedback and don't care if i have to pay $20 extra for it. it is worth every nickel as they always have different input and different thoughts on lines, braking, etc.
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11-15-2013, 12:45 PM | #36 |
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seems like even if brake failure and had already turned in he could have run straight out thru the dirt and had no impact rather than hooking into the wall.
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11-15-2013, 12:57 PM | #37 |
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I heard there was a passenger involved as well, is that correct?
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11-15-2013, 01:20 PM | #38 | |
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I still think that Camaro saw white car was too fast approaching and was trying to give him some passing room. Personnaly, if i was in that camaro, i would just go straight myself. If white car decided to take a regular line, then he would crash into camaro for sure. |
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11-15-2013, 01:30 PM | #39 |
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Camaro was looking in his rear view mirror, hesitated to turn in. He was on the proper line before turn in, but your supposed to be close to the tires, not on the far side of the track, to set up the next turn. My .02
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11-15-2013, 02:30 PM | #40 |
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Pretty sure he didnt apex because he saw what was coming lol.
I need to run speed district in jan for brp. Plenty of space and no traffic and will spin out intentionally once to get a "feel" lol |
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11-15-2013, 06:22 PM | #41 |
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All the "woulda, coulda, shouldas..."
The first time I put a wheel off the track was at my 3rd or 4th school. Happened at the exit to "Riverside" at Buttonwillow. The end result was a HUGE spin that had me cross the track TWICE and came to a stop in the middle of the bus-stop in a giant cloud of dust. Had that happened at a track where there were walls, say, at turn 9 at Laguna Seca, I probably wouldn't be posting here today. Had that happened when there were traffic around me I probably would have collected the bills for multiple cars AND injuries. It's been drilled and drilled repeated into me ever since that incident to always look for the escape route. Find out the safest way to exit the track should something happen. Go straight, don't try to save the lap should you drop 2 wheels off. Sure enough, in 2004, shortly after I got my first non BMW, a 350Z, I took it to Buttonwillow running the same counter clock configuration, and I experienced massive brake fade TWICE. Once entering into the bus-stop, the other time entering Sunset. Both times I did the right thing by pointing the steering wheel straight and hold on for dear life in the dirt. I came into the paddocks calm as ever. The brakes on the 350Z on the other hand...Didn't fare so well. But between my two incidents, there were at least 20 different track days at a dozen different tracks (well, different track layouts. There isn't a dozen track to explore around here), and each time it's been drilled into me by my classroom instructor and in-car instructor to look for escape route on my out-lap, every session. So we can all sit here and say, damn that NOOB should have gone straight. Or that guy shouldn't have done this. Or that. Or I would have NEVER done that. Yeah, having the experience to see my life literally flash before my eyes in the dust of Bakersfield at the beginning of my driving career probably taught me something about driving on the track, and I can safely say I probably wouldn't have done what the guy in the video did there. But it's so much easier to sit here and criticize and say "I would have never" than to say "damn that probably could have been me before I knew better." And believe you me, ALL of us, probably, at one point or another in our driving careers, could have made that same stupid mistake. How and where we make it, and how we move on from it, is pure luck in my opinion. That or you mitigate your risk by going to tracks like Buttonwillow or Chuckwalla where you can accelerate your learning curve with fewer risk of hitting walls, with organizations that insist on sticking an instructor or two with you for the duration of the event, for the first half dozen events. At least until you've got it ingrained into you on what a proper line around the track is, and how to mitigate emergencies WHEN they happen, not IF they happen.
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11-15-2013, 08:05 PM | #42 |
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An organization that would send novices out with no Instructor is an organization that is willing to take a LOT of unnecessary risks. I have no idea why anyone would want to run with such a group.
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11-15-2013, 08:33 PM | #43 |
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So, novices in instructor-led events never have incidents?
In any samples of population, whereas the majority finish out their lives relatively unscathed, you have a small number that either can't fit in or otherwise run into some bad luck. Drivers in track events are a reflection of such...
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11-15-2013, 08:44 PM | #44 | |
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If I said that - or anything slightly resembling that - please quote it. Because I'm having a problem locating it. My statements don't need translation. |
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