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      06-15-2018, 05:19 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8500RPM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcolley View Post
To run E85, you need to add about 30% mass flow to maintain stoich. Since the O2 sensors are read out as lambda in the DME, the DME always maintains lambda to the target. There is a parameter in the DME for stoich value that isn't changed with any of these kits. What these kits do I suspect is intercept the pulse for the injector and add pulse length to account for the necessary added fuel mass and that percentage increase is based on the value of ethanol per the sensor.

None of the kits I've looked at have any interface to the coils though or any feedback line to the DME that would affect timing. (If they did, the ionic current system would probably throw a fit). The statement was made earlier in this thread that the AFD kit would pull timing up high, but I'm trying to understand by what mechanism that would occur in the DME with the AFD kit vs a stock fuel system. I would suspect if you logged fuel rail pressure on the AFD kit you might see some difficulty with the stock pumps hitting the pressure targets and the DME is pulling timing preventively, but I'd have to go back and look at the mapping to confirm that.

As for the power increase with E85, unless timing is advanced by separate tuning of the DME, all the power gains come from the increased charge cooling as a function of the higher latent heat of vaporization as well as the increased mass flow injected. AFD seems to have based their marketing on that whereas the other company has not.

Even without retuning for increased timing, gains are to be had. The problem with increasing the timing is you better know very well what your ethanol content is because the DME doesn't and can only correct by pulling timing if it does sense knock. Also better make sure your tuner isn't one in favor of disabling knock sensing in the mss60.
None of these flex fuel kits pull timing. They only interact with the injectors to spray more fuel than normal when running E85. Now if you loaded up a race gas tune and used the Flex Fuel kit with that, you might make some magic with higher timing targets. I'm going to research this...
Would there be an advantage to running this kit or the AFD kit with a specific e85 tune versus just the e85 tune?
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      06-16-2018, 11:04 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcolley View Post
To run E85, you need to add about 30% mass flow to maintain stoich. Since the O2 sensors are read out as lambda in the DME, the DME always maintains lambda to the target. There is a parameter in the DME for stoich value that isn't changed with any of these kits. What these kits do I suspect is intercept the pulse for the injector and add pulse length to account for the necessary added fuel mass and that percentage increase is based on the value of ethanol per the sensor.

None of the kits I've looked at have any interface to the coils though or any feedback line to the DME that would affect timing. (If they did, the ionic current system would probably throw a fit). The statement was made earlier in this thread that the AFD kit would pull timing up high, but I'm trying to understand by what mechanism that would occur in the DME with the AFD kit vs a stock fuel system. I would suspect if you logged fuel rail pressure on the AFD kit you might see some difficulty with the stock pumps hitting the pressure targets and the DME is pulling timing preventively, but I'd have to go back and look at the mapping to confirm that.

As for the power increase with E85, unless timing is advanced by separate tuning of the DME, all the power gains come from the increased charge cooling as a function of the higher latent heat of vaporization as well as the increased mass flow injected. AFD seems to have based their marketing on that whereas the other company has not.

Even without retuning for increased timing, gains are to be had. The problem with increasing the timing is you better know very well what your ethanol content is because the DME doesn't and can only correct by pulling timing if it does sense knock. Also better make sure your tuner isn't one in favor of disabling knock sensing in the mss60.
Bingo. All the kits do the same thing...modify the injector signal based on input from the ethanol sensor. And you're dead on about the cooling, because my car was richer across the board, which should have reduced power, so that had to play a factor. But I also recorded a change in timing as well. In 89 deg weather on 93 at 6000 rpm total timing was 25.5 deg. On 60% ethanol, it was 26.4 on a slightly warmer day. So obviously my ECU was pulling timing on 93 due to the heat.
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      06-16-2018, 04:47 PM   #69
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There was an episode of Engine Masters on Motor Trend on demand about E85. They said one reason it might drop off in power at higher RPM is that their is less room for air at the higher RPMs.

Also, at the end of the episode, they talked about few cons with E85. They said that if your fuel pump relies on the fact that it's immersed in your gas tank to help lubricate it, that E85 has less lubrosity than gas and can cause issues with your fuel pump.

Any thoughts about that?
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      06-29-2018, 09:59 AM   #70
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Heads up that Ebay has a 20% off coupon and makes this $320 shipped. ($400 - 20% = $320).

Coupon code is PICKDADSGIFT and expires today at 7PM PST.
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Heads up that Ebay has a 20% off coupon and makes this $320 shipped. ($400 - 20% = $320).

Coupon code is PICKDADSGIFT and expires today at 7PM PST.
Ebay deal is back. Not as good as previous deal, this time it's 15% off instead of 20%. Use code PERFECTDAY on ebay for 15% off anything.

@8500RPM what's your impression on the kit?
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      12-26-2018, 11:47 AM   #71
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Bumping this, has anybody successfully ran it on their S65?
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      12-26-2018, 05:17 PM   #72
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Bumping this, has anybody successfully ran it on their S65?
Just run the advanced fuel dynamics kit... quality kit and proven gains on supercharged/N/A cars
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      12-27-2018, 05:55 PM   #73
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I put this kit on my car with hopes of making a thread about it. Install wasn't that hard but came to find out one of the injector plugs on the main harness wasn't working. I could replicate the fault code about bad injector by changing around the specific wire. I repined it a few times. The pinned injector wired worked when plugged into another female main harness plug. Just gave up and took it off. Car is my daily driver so I needed it back after 2 days down.

Never made the effort to contact the company, got turned off about the whole thing. My pursue this again when I'm bored.
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      12-27-2018, 07:39 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8500RPM View Post
I put this kit on my car with hopes of making a thread about it. Install wasn't that hard but came to find out one of the injector plugs on the main harness wasn't working. I could replicate the fault code about bad injector by changing around the specific wire. I repined it a few times. The pinned injector wired worked when plugged into another female main harness plug. Just gave up and took it off. Car is my daily driver so I needed it back after 2 days down.

Never made the effort to contact the company, got turned off about the whole thing. My pursue this again when I'm bored.
A friend had something happen that might have been like that. His car would run like crap and no engine light, something was not right and likely could cause damage if he kept running it like that. He disconnect it and the car ran great after. Must be some low quality stuff being resold and rebranded as most of these kits look exactly the same.
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      12-28-2018, 12:50 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8500RPM View Post
I put this kit on my car with hopes of making a thread about it. Install wasn't that hard but came to find out one of the injector plugs on the main harness wasn't working. I could replicate the fault code about bad injector by changing around the specific wire. I repined it a few times. The pinned injector wired worked when plugged into another female main harness plug. Just gave up and took it off. Car is my daily driver so I needed it back after 2 days down.

Never made the effort to contact the company, got turned off about the whole thing. My pursue this again when I'm bored.
That's what you get for being a cheap fuck and not getting the AFD kit.
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      12-28-2018, 01:12 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeekendWarriorz View Post
That's what you get for being a cheap fuck and not getting the AFD kit.
my friend also had the same problem with the AFD kit. they were very fast to ask him to ship it back and wait for replacement, almost as if its a common problem...
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      12-28-2018, 01:16 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFCM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeekendWarriorz View Post
That's what you get for being a cheap fuck and not getting the AFD kit.
my friend also had the same problem with the AFD kit. they were very fast to ask him to ship it back and wait for replacement, almost as if its a common problem...
When I had a problem with the AFD kit (wire was pinched probably from it being wrapped in the box and wasn't working on that cylinder) I had a new kit overnighted to my door and I sent the kit back in the box the next day. Nothing beats that!
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      12-28-2018, 01:36 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeekendWarriorz View Post
When I had a problem with the AFD kit (wire was pinched probably from it being wrapped in the box and wasn't working on that cylinder) I had a new kit overnighted to my door and I sent the kit back in the box the next day. Nothing beats that!
how about working out of the box?

sorry, with all the drama my friend went through to figure out what was wrong with his car, running these kits for e85 is just not worth it on NA cars...
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      12-28-2018, 01:46 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeekendWarriorz View Post
That's what you get for being a cheap fuck and not getting the AFD kit.
Only reason I tried it was because the OP of this thread put this same kit on his C63 AMG V8 and it worked fine for him lol.

$1200 for a flex fuel kit that doesn't adjust timings to make even more power than just E85 fuel alone isn't worth it to me. Rather have separate 93 and E85 tunes.
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      12-28-2018, 02:04 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8500RPM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeekendWarriorz View Post
That's what you get for being a cheap fuck and not getting the AFD kit.
Only reason I tried it was because the OP of this thread put this same kit on his C63 AMG V8 and it worked fine for him lol.

$1200 for a flex fuel kit that doesn't adjust timings to make even more power than just E85 fuel alone isn't worth it to me. Rather have separate 93 and E85 tunes.
The thing with these cars is that the factory ecu is self adjusting timing itself. Running the flex fuel kit can help the ecu adjust things within a certain range, also it's literally dyno proven gains, made in the US, and they have full on customer support. You can get a separate e85 tune and a pump gas tune but if you're living in places where e85 is e50-e60 in the winter then that's just going to F up the car overtime. Some people don't want to tune and want to run with stock power with the cooling benefits on the track. And you know the saying, gotta pay to play. I don't even consider that being expensive and Will and Ryan from AFD give 15-20% off deals all the time, just contact them.
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      01-16-2019, 10:16 AM   #81
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8500rpm, contact the company and they will send you a new lead free of charge. I had the same problem when I installed mine the first time. Wasn't anything to do with the quality of the kit, it happened because when you pin the injector adapters, the pins only go in one way. I tried to force one in incorrectly and damaged the connection. No matter what I tried it wouldn't work after that. Emailed eflex and had a new lead the next week, which fixed the problem.

All these kits do the same thing....no reason to spend the extra grand. That's a carbon fiber driveshaft right there! There's nothing "BMW specific" with any of these kits, other than the injector adapters, which are also all the same....although afd installs the pins for you whereas eflex does not. For the c63 they started installing the pins for customers because I sent them documentation on the orientation of the pins (polarity), but apparently they don't offer that for the m3 yet. 8500, if you know which way they install, let them know and they'll pin it for you.

Last edited by Doc Oc; 01-16-2019 at 10:22 AM..
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      01-17-2019, 05:00 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Oc View Post
8500rpm, contact the company and they will send you a new lead free of charge. I had the same problem when I installed mine the first time. Wasn't anything to do with the quality of the kit, it happened because when you pin the injector adapters, the pins only go in one way. I tried to force one in incorrectly and damaged the connection. No matter what I tried it wouldn't work after that. Emailed eflex and had a new lead the next week, which fixed the problem.

All these kits do the same thing....no reason to spend the extra grand. That's a carbon fiber driveshaft right there! There's nothing "BMW specific" with any of these kits, other than the injector adapters, which are also all the same....although afd installs the pins for you whereas eflex does not. For the c63 they started installing the pins for customers because I sent them documentation on the orientation of the pins (polarity), but apparently they don't offer that for the m3 yet. 8500, if you know which way they install, let them know and they'll pin it for you.
Hey brother thanks for the reply. Maybe I didn't word my comment correctly but the issue with my kit lies with the main harness itself. I wired all the leads correctly but whatever males injector lead I plugged into 1 particular " Main Harness Female" plug it wouldn't work. The yellow female connector is the culprit. It's attached to the long main harness so they'd have to send me a new one. I was frustrated at the time and just yanked everything off to get my car working again. Maybe I'll shoot them an email.Name:  01.jpg
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      01-22-2019, 09:33 AM   #83
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I gotcha. It can be frustrating but contact them...I am sure they'll help.
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