Air Scoops - Junk Science?

[jimmyeatsworld]

Originally Posted by J08M3

The funny thing about RPI's thread on the subject is they claim different amounts of power in different pages of the thread. Also the thread over and over asked for at least one person to do high speed runs and time them and collect data. Never once has this been done to prove any claims of high speed benefits.

I cannot speak for Eloy in terms of what was said or not said.

As far as a purpose of the scoops is to help bring in cold air, and to prevent heat soak.

In terms of theory/functionality on the scoops, you can probably find more information on the m5board.com, and e60.net.

[JC919]

I bought some, but after hearing negative feedback I have yet to install them and most likely won't.

[tom @ eas]

Additional air directed to the airbox is not a bad thing, but this cannot be accurately be measured on a chassis dyno. Coolant/Oil cooling is not affected.

Measuring with an onboard dyno like a vericom will put many future debates to rest.

[xxe92xx]

Originally Posted by FifthStreetz

I got a generic set of scoops, cant say i feel any difference, but it does make a cool whirling sound!

does it really make a whirling sound? cuz ill get um if it does

[Sales@Evolve]

Do some real world datalogging both on road at 'high-speed' and on a dyno with a decent fan. The results will correlate with each other.

Measure just some obvious parameters through the vehicle sensors and all is revealed.

[J08M3]

Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve

Do some real world datalogging both on road at 'high-speed' and on a dyno with a decent fan. The results will correlate with each other.

Measure just some obvious parameters through the vehicle sensors and all is revealed.

Except no one yet has provided the evidence from datalogging to prove this for the scoops.

[J08M3]

Originally Posted by jimmyeatsworld

As far as a purpose of the scoops is to help bring in cold air, and to prevent heat soak.

In terms of theory/functionality on the scoops, you can probably find more information on the m5board.com, and e60.net.

This engine only breathes cold air, it doesn't need scoops for that. That's the factory design.

Not to start this same debate again, but you cannot use data from a M5/6 for our car since the intake system is different.

[J08M3]

Here's a link to the thread with numerous different HP claims on the same scoops, and more than enough reasons why they don't really work..... Also includes plenty of chances for someone to provide some real world driving data (not dyno) to show gains and still no one has provided any, including the manufacturer of such scoops:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...+intake+scoops

[jimmyeatsworld]

Originally Posted by J08M3

This engine only breathes cold air, it doesn't need scoops for that. That's the factory design.

Not to start this same debate again, but you cannot use data from a M5/6 for our car since the intake system is different.

Who's to say there isn't heat soak with our car?

[jimmyeatsworld]

Originally Posted by J08M3

Here's a link to the thread with numerous different HP claims on the same scoops, and more than enough reasons why they don't really work..... Also includes plenty of chances for someone to provide some real world driving data (not dyno) to show gains and still no one has provided any, including the manufacturer of such scoops:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...+intake+scoops

I'll try to get through the 20+ pages on this.

[SS32]

I would NEVER pay retail for them and vendors are ripping people off for what the product actually is: pressed metal. Having said that, I bought some "defective" scoops (2mm off normal) super cheap and I'm happy with them. They look good and the theory is sound. So if I got 3bhp for what I paid, I'm happy.

[whyrms]

I never knew why people put those things on their car. Isn't the reason why the air intakes are designed to be pointing downward on the 335i is because they don't want any water to ruin your filter and get into your engine? So why do you install a scoop that would collect and shoot rain into your intake? wouldn't that mess up your filter? I find it strange that people doesn't complain about messed up filters and decreased performance due to water rusting up their engine.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by whyrms

I never knew why people put those things on their car. Isn't the reason why the air intakes are designed to be pointing downward on the 335i is because they don't want any water to ruin your filter and get into your engine? So why do you install a scoop that would collect and shoot rain into your intake? wouldn't that mess up your filter? I find it strange that people doesn't complain about messed up filters and decreased performance due to water rusting up their engine.

It would be no different than the bottom intake carrying up rain during high speeds.

[whyrms]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

It would be no different than the bottom intake carrying up rain during high speeds.

no differences at all? not more not less? exactly the same?

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by whyrms

no differences at all? not more not less? exactly the same?

I was referring to the "rain" comment, scoops will play little part (if any) in this.

We've even seen cigarette butts in the stock filters during replacement on vehicle not equipped with any type of air scoop.





BTW - there was a cigarette butt lodged beneath one of the leaves there.

Scoops are fine, anything that aids in getting air in the intake stream (especially radiant heat from asphalt on hot days) helps.

How much HP is still up for discussion. This will require something like a Vericom (or Vbox) to verify.

[M3 Montreal]

I have them and in my opinion... they are bullshit.

How much more air can they direct when our front bottom left spoiler has a massive scoop that does more than those little things can possibly do.

Save your money unless you get the colorful red ones for aesthetics... lol

[rsmamg]

Originally Posted by xxe92xx

does it really make a whirling sound? cuz ill get um if it does

I would say I get that whirling sound more from my upgraded air filter. But I put them on together so i cant be certain. Maybe.

[aremmell]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

If anybody has the scoops up in NorCal, I'll loan my Video VBox for the experiment, and even show you were to find a very lonely, and perfectly straight section of road near my house -- suitable for 0-100+ MPH runs.

I'd be interested in some hard data from some 4th gear pulls or something similar. Until then, I think I'll save my time and money for something proven.

[hamad]

i got them just for they way they look

[lucid]

I just polluted the survey results by clicking the wrong option! (clicked first one, but meant the second)

If I had to bet on this, I'd put my money on scoops being BS.

[ching]

Before I buy a performance mod, it needs to pass the "why wouldn't BMW do it test".

BMW engineers need to design for a wide criteria (comfort vs performance, cost vs benefit, reliability vs performance, all of the above to regulations etc...) suitable for a wide target market, and I know that my personal preferences allow me to make tweaks to this .

For example, I can rationalize that my exhaust provides a performance pick-up because it is freer flowing and lighter than what BMW engineers are constrained by (it`s a LOT louder, and costs more to make because it`s Ti vs SS). I can rationalize most mods - ECU, Pulley, etc.. this way by thinking about the competing set of constraints BMW engineers face.

Now, I take a look at this air scoop which would not materially add to the cost of producing the car (two small sheets of bent medal acquired in bulk - couple bucks?) but would in theory provide an amazing performance / cost ratio if the air scoop manufacturer claims are to be believed? I haven`t heard any downsides... It these performance claims are true, I just think that BMW would have simply done this...

An air scoop makes about as much sense to me as a vortex valve...

http://www.vortexvalve.com/

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by ching

Before I buy a performance mod, it needs to pass the "why wouldn't BMW do it test".

BMW engineers need to design for a wide criteria (comfort vs performance, cost vs benefit, reliability vs performance, all of the above to regulations etc...) suitable for a wide target market, and I know that my personal preferences allow me to make tweaks to this .

For example, I can rationalize that my exhaust provides a performance pick-up because it is freer flowing and lighter than what BMW engineers are constrained by (it`s a LOT louder, and costs more to make because it`s Ti vs SS). I can rationalize most mods - ECU, Pulley, etc.. this way by thinking about the competing set of constraints BMW engineers face.

Now, I take a look at this air scoop which would not materially add to the cost of producing the car (two small sheets of bent medal acquired in bulk - couple bucks?) but would in theory provide an amazing performance / cost ratio if the air scoop manufacturer claims are to be believed? I haven`t heard any downsides... It these performance claims are true, I just think that BMW would have simply done this...

An air scoop makes about as much sense to me as a vortex valve...

+1,