BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > M3 vs....
 
Mporium BMW
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-19-2011, 02:55 PM   #1
adc
Major General
United_States
2713
Rep
6,743
Posts

Drives: 2018 F80 M3 ED
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MD/DC

iTrader: (12)

E90 M3 vs. C63 AMG... in the rain

Well folks, last week I had the opportunity to test my M3 against a well driven C63 AMG in the rain at Summit Point main.

With a worse driver (me), on completely worn down stock tires (I mean gone), I can say with certainty the M3 is about 0.5 - 1 sec faster around a 1m30 lap. (Well it's probably close to 1m25 in the dry, who knows in the wet).

It's hard to say exactly how much faster, but at the rate I was approaching it could have actually been more than 1 sec. Unfortunately the session ended with a car off before I could press the advantage.

Just to dispel any potential driver arguments, it was my first time in the advanced group and the other driver (a neighbor it turns out) is a lot more experienced than me (drives a 911 cup car too).


So I can definitely say that the M3 is faster. And since my exhaust installation, sounds better too.

Waiting for the excuses now in 3, 2, 1...
__________________

2018 F80 Santorini
2019 Z4 3.0i
2022 X2 M35i
Appreciate 0
      04-20-2011, 02:43 AM   #2
brava09
Lieutenant Colonel
brava09's Avatar
767
Rep
1,683
Posts

Drives: M4C xdrive
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Europe

iTrader: (0)

Niceee!!!

You might be the better driver though....
__________________
22 M4 Competition xdrive
19 M5 Competition sold
16 F-Type S AWD sold
11 Audi RS5 Misano Red--sold
08 E92 M3 Jerez Black 6MT--sold
08 E92 335i 6MT traded in for M3
Appreciate 0
      04-20-2011, 08:49 AM   #3
Nine
Banned
49
Rep
1,922
Posts

Drives: Not ZCP, FML.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: DC, Miami, NYC

iTrader: (2)

did the c63 have the development package with LSD and more hp, if so that makes this even more impressive - if not it makes a lot of sense, think of the weight and lack of LSD.
Appreciate 0
      04-20-2011, 10:58 AM   #4
lostkhan
Lieutenant
lostkhan's Avatar
Pakistan
56
Rep
438
Posts

Drives: 135i
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: newyork

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nine View Post
did the c63 have the development package with LSD and more hp, if so that makes this even more impressive - if not it makes a lot of sense, think of the weight and lack of LSD.
No LSD in C63? And still it pulls better slides. How come?
__________________
BMW 135i 2008 (Current) - Subaru Legacy (DD) - Mountaineer (Hauling)
Maxima 95 (Retired) - Acura TL 02 (Retired) - Acura TLS 03 (Retired) - Acura TL 05 (Retired) - Scion tC 2006 (Retired)
Audi A4 2003 (Retired) - Jeep Grand Cherokee 96 DD (Retired)
Appreciate 0
      04-20-2011, 11:45 AM   #5
adc
Major General
United_States
2713
Rep
6,743
Posts

Drives: 2018 F80 M3 ED
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MD/DC

iTrader: (12)

Quote:
Originally Posted by brava09 View Post
Niceee!!!

You might be the better driver though....
Nah, I'm aware of where I fall short.

His line was very good, he was doing everything right, experimenting sometimes to find a better line, but the car is just not as balanced - all my slides and lurches were a lot smoother and more controllable than his. To the point that I was giving him a LOT of room, you know, just in case...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nine View Post
did the c63 have the development package with LSD and more hp, if so that makes this even more impressive - if not it makes a lot of sense, think of the weight and lack of LSD.
Not sure - off the top of my head I would say no.

However a little bit in front of him there was this white C63 with the full tamale, chipped and whatnot. He didn't seem to be going any faster than his stock-looking brother and I would have passed him too in another few laps, given the opportunity.

No other way to say this, the M3 is simply magic in the rain. That's where the inherent balance shines and the car simply pulls it together.

By balance I don't simply mean between understeer and oversteer - I also mean that no one aspect of the car overwhelmes the others.
__________________

2018 F80 Santorini
2019 Z4 3.0i
2022 X2 M35i
Appreciate 0
      04-20-2011, 11:53 AM   #6
saeedg48
Brigadier General
United_States
335
Rep
3,574
Posts

Drives: Porsche 991.1 GT3
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Newport Beach, CA

iTrader: (1)

nice worth
__________________

2015 Porsche 991.1 GT3
2015 F80 M3 -- Individual; Space Grey
Appreciate 0
      04-20-2011, 01:08 PM   #7
1BMW4fun
Second Lieutenant
37
Rep
252
Posts

Drives: 12 X3 2.8, 11 550
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

All cars on the same tires?
Appreciate 0
      04-20-2011, 01:20 PM   #8
adc
Major General
United_States
2713
Rep
6,743
Posts

Drives: 2018 F80 M3 ED
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MD/DC

iTrader: (12)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1BMW4fun View Post
All cars on the same tires?
White AMG had something more track-oriented (still street legal, grooved and with plenty of thread). Black AMG was on stock tires in good condition. My M3 was on completely worn down OEM 18" PS2's - to the point where I need to change them within the next 500 miles.
__________________

2018 F80 Santorini
2019 Z4 3.0i
2022 X2 M35i
Appreciate 0
      04-20-2011, 05:12 PM   #9
mdosu
Banned
No_Country
311
Rep
8,496
Posts

Drives: Double Vanos'd Civic-M3
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (6)

you have MDM on?
Appreciate 0
      04-20-2011, 06:08 PM   #10
adc
Major General
United_States
2713
Rep
6,743
Posts

Drives: 2018 F80 M3 ED
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MD/DC

iTrader: (12)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdosu View Post
you have MDM on?
No, I have stick.
__________________

2018 F80 Santorini
2019 Z4 3.0i
2022 X2 M35i
Appreciate 0
      04-20-2011, 07:58 PM   #11
CrazyJoe
Banned
CrazyJoe's Avatar
1
Rep
107
Posts

Drives: E92
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Jersey/NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lostkhan View Post
No LSD in C63? And still it pulls better slides. How come?
thats what i'm thinking
Appreciate 0
      04-20-2011, 08:05 PM   #12
Richbot
Major General
2735
Rep
5,473
Posts

Drives: Jerez Black E90
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: STL

iTrader: (5)

I would have caught him if...

__________________
Appreciate 0
      04-20-2011, 09:45 PM   #13
adc
Major General
United_States
2713
Rep
6,743
Posts

Drives: 2018 F80 M3 ED
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MD/DC

iTrader: (12)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
I would have caught him if...
Well, I did catch him - passed 2 other cars to get to him. Not my fault someone crashed in front of us and they closed the session... (A nice E36 M3 with the rare cloth interior).

I did make this post half in jest of course, but I was actually pretty surprised. Based on other various tests I've seen or read about the cars seemed pretty close, so when you throw a better driver in the AMG and my worn tires I was expecting to be lapped, frankly speaking.

Imagine my surprise when I spotted him and was able to close within less than two laps. In the twisty and slippery parts his car seemed a handful, and even onto the main straight he couldn't really pull away (due to the greater exit speed of the M).

And of course I conveniently didn't mention the fully built Miata who was braille-reading my license plate in the same twisty stuff... oops...
__________________

2018 F80 Santorini
2019 Z4 3.0i
2022 X2 M35i
Appreciate 0
      04-20-2011, 10:18 PM   #14
Mr. ///M3 RD
Happy Camper
Mr. ///M3 RD's Avatar
Canada
610
Rep
7,869
Posts

Drives: C63 AMG & 280 SL on Weekends :
Join Date: May 2010
Location: GTA, Ontario - Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
Well folks, last week I had the opportunity to test my M3 against a well driven C63 AMG in the rain at Summit Point main.

With a worse driver (me), on completely worn down stock tires (I mean gone), I can say with certainty the M3 is about 0.5 - 1 sec faster around a 1m30 lap. (Well it's probably close to 1m25 in the dry, who knows in the wet).

It's hard to say exactly how much faster, but at the rate I was approaching it could have actually been more than 1 sec. Unfortunately the session ended with a car off before I could press the advantage.

Just to dispel any potential driver arguments, it was my first time in the advanced group and the other driver (a neighbor it turns out) is a lot more experienced than me (drives a 911 cup car too).


So I can definitely say that the M3 is faster. And since my exhaust installation, sounds better too.

Waiting for the excuses now in 3, 2, 1...
All depends on the driver my friend, then what is a second anyway ... think about it
__________________
Cheers, Rolf-Dieter

Life will take us to some interesting places, fortunately The ///M3 will too with a many of us know this very well, now my C6.3 AMG with 487 HP does it too
---> Click here for some good stuff I found
Appreciate 0
      04-20-2011, 10:23 PM   #15
adc
Major General
United_States
2713
Rep
6,743
Posts

Drives: 2018 F80 M3 ED
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MD/DC

iTrader: (12)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolf-Dieter View Post
All depends on the driver my friend, then what is a second anyway ... think about it
On track, a second means you will get passed.

It doesn't really matter to me, I went there knowing it will rain, and knowing the tires were on the last gasp - so I went there to learn, not to brag or bully. All I'm doing here is showing my surprise, that's all.

In the grand scheme of things, this changes nothing of course - I still like my M3, and my neighbor still likes his C63, and we'll both continue to meet during the school run. Although I did catch a wistful glance in his eyes...
__________________

2018 F80 Santorini
2019 Z4 3.0i
2022 X2 M35i
Appreciate 0
      04-20-2011, 10:24 PM   #16
adc
Major General
United_States
2713
Rep
6,743
Posts

Drives: 2018 F80 M3 ED
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MD/DC

iTrader: (12)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpari09 View Post
You can have MDM with a manual

M Dynamic mode
Does that require NAV? Or a 2011 model year perhaps?

It sure isn't there in my car... and it sure would be nice to have in the rain...
__________________

2018 F80 Santorini
2019 Z4 3.0i
2022 X2 M35i
Appreciate 0
      04-20-2011, 10:42 PM   #17
CAPSGOD
Major
44
Rep
1,134
Posts

Drives: Diesel Son
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: #yolo

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
Waiting for the excuses now in 3, 2, 1...
All else being equal, a more torquey car will be more difficult in low traction situations.
Appreciate 0
      04-21-2011, 11:21 AM   #18
mdosu
Banned
No_Country
311
Rep
8,496
Posts

Drives: Double Vanos'd Civic-M3
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (6)

I'm guessing the C63 was driving with it's traction control on...
Appreciate 0
      04-21-2011, 08:26 PM   #19
burrito007
Second Lieutenant
93
Rep
236
Posts

Drives: e46 M3
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

just take a look at the topgear C63 vs. m3 vs. RS4 - M3 was the clear winner for balance (apple smash at the end).


In the wet tho I'd prefer my S4 =P
Appreciate 0
      04-21-2011, 09:36 PM   #20
adc
Major General
United_States
2713
Rep
6,743
Posts

Drives: 2018 F80 M3 ED
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MD/DC

iTrader: (12)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdosu View Post
I'm guessing the C63 was driving with it's traction control on...
He tried both ways. In that session it was off I think, which is a brave move in the C63.

Quote:
Originally Posted by burrito007 View Post
just take a look at the topgear C63 vs. m3 vs. RS4 - M3 was the clear winner for balance (apple smash at the end).
That is an entertainment show, not a documentary. Must be based on some truth, I guess...
__________________

2018 F80 Santorini
2019 Z4 3.0i
2022 X2 M35i
Appreciate 0
      04-22-2011, 06:24 PM   #21
mdosu
Banned
No_Country
311
Rep
8,496
Posts

Drives: Double Vanos'd Civic-M3
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by burrito007 View Post
just take a look at the topgear C63 vs. m3 vs. RS4 - M3 was the clear winner for balance (apple smash at the end).


In the wet tho I'd prefer my S4 =P
apple smash is more driver skill
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:00 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST