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06-12-2008, 09:20 PM | #23 | |
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Beleive me it is quite easy to see when the suspension is working at its best,if you have reference points that you know your RPM at those points to be able to compare to previous laps with a different setup.It comes with experiance and feel is a very large part of going fast. |
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06-12-2008, 09:29 PM | #24 | |
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I have seen a lot of very good drivers that were terrible at car setup. Feel is not a substitute for hard data. ideally you want both. My expectation is the results (normal / sport) will vary with surface conditions.
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06-12-2008, 10:14 PM | #25 |
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We can sit and argue about suspension setup theory for an awful long time:
Facts; My tire setup is about 1" shorter overall height than my factory 19" setup with less stagger difference front to rear The Toyo R888's are much less precise feeling tire than the PS2's that came on the car.They are a very good track tire however with extremly friendly breakaway and they they are very easy to bring back into the zone once you overdrive them.They heat up quite fast and only started to fall off after about 10 laps. But on this one track that is fairly tight and that is fairly rough and I prefered the sport EDC setting and went about 2 seconds a lap quicker in the afternoon with more track & car familiarity than using the normal setting in my first couple of sessions.I was using my bike lap timer to keep an accurate track of my lap times. Yes I would like to do some data logging but for myself in these conditions the sport setting was faster and much more controlable. |
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06-12-2008, 10:47 PM | #26 | |||
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My initial response to you was simply to point out that your perception of events (amount the car moved to take a set) was not in line with the real events (its the same sport or normal). For the purpose of showing how unreliable driver feel can often be.
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06-12-2008, 11:05 PM | #27 | |
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The fact that you cannot argue is that on this particular situation is that both the timer and SOP confirmed that the firmer setting was better ifor my needs! |
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06-12-2008, 11:12 PM | #28 | |
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I have run the 888s on two different E46s and an Elise. The Elise comunity uses them for street tires to replace the stock 048lts [edit] The 255 on the 8.5" would be pinched quite a bit which would hurt response.
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06-12-2008, 11:24 PM | #29 | |
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Am I replacing Footie in your argumenitive world |
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06-12-2008, 11:29 PM | #30 | |
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I have a set of 9.5x18 for the front and rear for when my car gets here. I am curious how the front suspension deals with the extra grip of dot-r tires. i.e. will it use the full tread width or just roll over onto the outer half. I'm running 275/35-18s on the 9.5" rims. (just 3 more weeks to go)
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06-12-2008, 11:42 PM | #31 | |
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06-12-2008, 11:45 PM | #32 | |
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Also since they don't affect ride quality much it should have a minimal impact on street comfort.
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06-12-2008, 11:52 PM | #33 | |
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I am not a big fan of big bars on the road because any cars that I have done that to, the side to side motions become rather unbearable in normal use,but I am sure our roads are crap compared to yours. |
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06-13-2008, 11:57 AM | #34 | |
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2008 E92M3-Space Gray Eisenmann Sport Exhaust_MT/Loaded Last edited by DJ9; 06-13-2008 at 08:53 PM.. |
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06-13-2008, 01:53 PM | #35 | |
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06-13-2008, 02:15 PM | #36 | |
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I don't care if someone tells me they prefer sport, I suspect I will end up using it on some of the lots around here. Just don't tell me it makes the car lean less or squat/dive less, it doesn't Transitional behavior != steady state behavior You seem bitter that someone corrected your posts when you posted bad info.
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06-13-2008, 02:22 PM | #37 | |
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06-13-2008, 02:40 PM | #38 |
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Do you need one to know that sport mode doesn't change the static spring rates?
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06-13-2008, 03:05 PM | #39 |
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I never said that as i was talking about dynamic spring rates which are a very different thing to static spring rates.While in motion a shock that has more compression damping will increase the dynamic (wheel)spring rate as the suspension is in motion being compressed as it will provide more resistance to the spring being compressed over its travel.A shock setup change can often result in what amount of wheel travel is being used in cornering or bumps.If you soften a shock in compression you will always use more wheel travel than a harder setup.Then we could start a discussion on the using bump rubbers as part of the springing package.
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06-13-2008, 03:31 PM | #40 | |
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You are wrong in implying that the shocks will change where the car takes its set. Unless you are playing games with mismatched compression and rebound on the shocks it will set the same way regardless if it gets there in a controled way or a sloppy way. The part I highlighted is staight up WRONG. Take a picture of the car in a sustained sweeping turn and both the hard and soft shock car will be leaning the same. They will have the same wheel travel. Now if you are driving along and suddenly yank the wheel, the way the car moves while taking its set will be different. Shocks only have an effect on the suspension while the suspension is in motion. At a steady state they have no effect since their sole purpose is to provide resisitance to movement, not support weight. Perhaps you are more like footie than I realized, ugh.
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06-13-2008, 03:48 PM | #41 | |
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06-13-2008, 03:56 PM | #42 | |
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As to the surface question. Here is a pic from the location where the local BMW club runs their autocrosses. http://www.alternaterealities.info/v...autox_hell.jpg Laguna is pretty smooth now after all the work they did to it. Thunderhill, not so much. Reno, so bumpy I though I was going to break the car and had to go off line to look for smoother pavement. Do you have pictures or in car video? If so put a level on them for your sport laps and normal laps. I'm willing to bet you won't see a difference in the lean of the car. (provided you were driving both laps at the limit). [edit] I'm not a native left coaster. You are right though, they are nuts.
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06-13-2008, 04:18 PM | #43 | |
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So are you suggesting Normal would be the preferred for rough track surfaces? Will be headed to Infineon and Thunderhill over the next two months, will be interested to see how the EDC works on these two tracks. I have a suspicion I may use Normal more at Thunderhill(long sweepers) and Sport at Infineon(technical slalom like turns)...who knows...we'll see. Can say, that I did prefer Sport at Laguna....at least on that day
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06-13-2008, 04:30 PM | #44 | |
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In theory, yes.
In practice I cannot say yet. I am guessing for a place like Laguna or the autocross site I showed you woudl want sport mode. For reno I would bet on normal. The other, I have no idea. Quote:
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