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07-03-2008, 09:05 AM | #23 |
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Bruce,
There is an optimum way of getting a rwd car off the line and it's not like these magazines only have one go at getting it right. Unless they are testing all times on a dragstrip where traction is a sure thing and almost all of the available power can be put down in first gear then times should be more consistent than they are against European mags. I know given 6~10 goes at it I could get the same M3 to produce times within a tenth or two of each other, but 1.2s is more than a slight variation, it's huge. I still maintain that press cars are better than stock but up to 10%, ie. press car M3 may have 440hp but stock M3 might vary from 420hp down to as low as 400hp. |
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07-03-2008, 03:44 PM | #24 | ||
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If you take these things into consideration, plus car to car variation, a variation in 0 - 100 times from 9.4 to 10.6 seconds isn't even worth talking about. Bruce Quote:
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07-03-2008, 05:34 PM | #25 | |
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You and I are making the same point about comparisons of timed events that depend on several variables vs comparisons of HP. Admittedly, the HP comparison we are discussing from the original article (and others) involves a derivation from trap speed. I will break my concern down simply: Is the variation in HP ratings for the GT-R larger than normal? If so, is the variation in HP ratings due to "standard" car-to-car variability, lax engineering tolerances or "ringers?"
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07-03-2008, 06:13 PM | #26 | ||
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You are totally correct in saying it will account for a minimum of 0.5s just there on it's own. Quote:
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07-03-2008, 06:54 PM | #27 | |
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07-04-2008, 05:15 AM | #28 |
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Tell me, how much difference could lightened internal possibly make to the overall performance, then slight tweaks to the software.
This is only a hypothetical question mind. |
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07-04-2008, 09:02 AM | #29 |
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If they are using different pistons, rods, shafts and all that in press car engines, that would be a major cheat. Yes, a journalist can simply open the trunk and see that, but they might start asking questions after they've driven a production car when they feel the difference. And I think one can feel the difference in increased response and the additional 40 hp. At least some of them should be able to. Then there is the issue of people eventually "talking". Those guys in the factory who put the engines together might start telling stories after they retire or leave the job. I am not saying it is not impossible, but it would be extremely risky IMO. Not worth risking your brand image over...
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07-04-2008, 09:39 AM | #30 |
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07-04-2008, 10:15 AM | #31 | |
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Rollout for an average street tire is about a foot, hence the test procedure to mimic that. Bruce |
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07-04-2008, 10:27 AM | #32 |
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But Footie, stories cut both ways; they are often bogus!
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07-04-2008, 02:12 PM | #33 |
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07-04-2008, 02:14 PM | #34 | |
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Thanks for the explanation, it must be a case that in the States drag racing, even in your normal car is a big thing. This may also explain why the 1/4 mile times in the US are better as well. |
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07-04-2008, 07:51 PM | #35 |
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car and driver got 0-60 in 4.1 and 100 mph in over 10 secoonds for the GTR vs the 911, z06 and viper. it won the test - but I recall the M3 has matched this 60 time and beaten this 100 time.
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07-09-2008, 06:46 PM | #36 |
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Bruce, I was curious about the number of tenths you mention here. Doing some simulations for the 6MT M3 in CarTest and varying the one foot value down to exactly 0 feet indeed produces results 0.4 seconds difference (of course across the board) for all 0 to speed X times.
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07-09-2008, 06:53 PM | #37 |
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Swamp, not to start anything, but why aren't you complaining about this post and complained about the ZR1 Ring Time post? Just curious, not looking to start an argument.
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07-09-2008, 11:37 PM | #38 |
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End the speculations. Someone will dyno the GTR sooner or later.
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07-10-2008, 12:16 AM | #39 | |
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I call BS. then they should call it 2-60. not 0-60. most mags that do a 5-60 rolling start get slower times. most of them use GPS units now and I doubt they cheat, which is exactly what this would be. In any case if they do cheat then they cheat equally for all cars?
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07-10-2008, 02:21 AM | #40 | |
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Of course they offer consistency, all cars are tested in the exact same way and have been for some time. |
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07-10-2008, 08:10 AM | #41 | |
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Subsequent curiosity led me to do the basic analysis, including street tire coefficients of friction and weight distribution (plus weight shift), thus arriving at approximate max G. Since theoretical max G could be attained by virtually any muscle car at launch (or nearly any car, for that matter), basic arithmetic then could confirm what I had observed. Anecdotally, when facing a very tough opponent in my class at the track, I'd often line up "crooked", facing perhaps five degrees right at launch. This would lengthen my potential rollout by about five inches or so, allowing me to launch even a bit before the last amber began to think about warming the filaments, giving me the win even with a slower ET. Doing the arithmetic shows you don't get much out of those additional inches, but enough. You'd think the additional rollout would also improve ET, but I found that the side loads generated by straightening the car out (no matter how quickly or slowly you did it) negated that advantage. I used to routinely say a half second, but now say four to five tenths because of the improved traction of today's sporty rubber, plus less time loss due to tire windup because of shorter and stiffer sidewalls compared to cars in the '60s. Bruce Last edited by bruce.augenstein@comcast.; 07-10-2008 at 01:42 PM.. Reason: punctuation |
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07-10-2008, 08:28 AM | #42 | |
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Bruce Last edited by bruce.augenstein@comcast.; 07-10-2008 at 10:55 AM.. |
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07-10-2008, 04:09 PM | #43 | |
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07-23-2008, 09:28 PM | #44 |
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Haha nice read.
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