Bad Dealership story

MTROIS · 09-04-2008, 03:28 PM

Dean,

I perfectly understand the way you feel and fully support your reaction... except that we should not lose our sanity or mental health because of these dishonest guys. Just to let you know, something very similar happened to me: when I negotiated my car, the CA threw in a few accesories to get me to make the deal, including the M3 mats. Fine. Long story short, I had to fight this up to the morning I was picking up my car at the Performance Center!!! That morning I had no other choice than to raise my voice on the phone and clearly threaten them to give a bad review with BMW NA so that they would finaly fax over the request to the Performance Center to put the mats in the car (which by the way I was so lucky to get the M3 ones as they had been on back order for several weeks before).

Anyhow, I perfectly support you here because it is about the PRINCIPLE. I actually feel the same way on the road: if a guys seems to be lost and/or puts his signal I will let him go in front of me to allow him to exit the highway/road... but if I see that the guy is simply trying to screw an entire line of cars which, like me, are following the law and/or just tries to gain one more place in a long line....then SCR@@$$ him!!

Anyway, good luck to you!

King Tut · 09-04-2008, 03:32 PM

I too am worried about of all things my floor mats when I do the PDC, but I will make sure my CA has them there or sends them to me, and I will bring them myself.

Ryan(e92) · 09-04-2008, 04:04 PM

Whats all this talk of full price about? Do you think a dealer wants you to pay cash for their cars? Answer: NO. They make all their money financing cars. You ordered a car in December and didnt get it until now? How the F is that possible? The accessories credit is a shitty way of trying to make things right. We can all agree on that. Nobody wants the M3 leather jacket or polo shirt. Its 200 bucks let it go. I ate 20 grand trading in my 335 with 11,000 miles on it.

skierman64 · 09-04-2008, 04:18 PM

When I went into my dealership I made sure I knew the exact amount I was going to end up paying, including all the extra little things like registration, tax, etc. I had it all written out and compared it to the amounts the finance manager quoted me. The only discrepancy I had was on the registration paid to the state, and I told them it was wrong before I signed the paperwork. After my registration paperwork came back from the state with the proper amount it turns out the dealership over charged me $22. I called them and they sent me the check without any questions. As it should be.

The dealership is making enough money as it is, they shouldn't try to nickel and dime people.

J08M3 · 09-04-2008, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan(e92)

Whats all this talk of full price about? Do you think a dealer wants you to pay cash for their cars? Answer: NO. They make all their money financing cars. You ordered a car in December and didnt get it until now? How the F is that possible? The accessories credit is a shitty way of trying to make things right. We can all agree on that. Nobody wants the M3 leather jacket or polo shirt. Its 200 bucks let it go. I ate 20 grand trading in my 335 with 11,000 miles on it.

The bank makes money when you finance, not the dealer. the dealer doesn't care if you pay cash or not.

Irb I couldn't agree more, that's exactly what I was saying in my post.

addy85 · 09-04-2008, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J08M3

The bank makes money when you finance, not the dealer. the dealer doesn't care if you pay cash or not.

Irb I couldn't agree more, that's exactly what I was saying in my post.

wrong! The dealer can make points on the rate they give you. For example the dealer might get 4.9 and charge you 6.9 therefore making the dealer two points of rate and making money. All dealerships hate cash deals

J08M3 · 09-04-2008, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by addy85

wrong! The dealer can make points on the rate they give you. For example the dealer might get 4.9 and charge you 6.9 therefore making the dealer two points of rate and making money. All dealerships hate cash deals

really? I don't have a finance agreement with my dealer I got my car from... So they would have to be getting some kind of kick back from the bank then to be making any money.

addy85 · 09-04-2008, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J08M3

really? I don't have a finance agreement with my dealer I got my car from... So they would have to be getting some kind of kick back from the bank then to be making any money.

I work for a dealership and we make most of our money from people who finance

TLud · 09-04-2008, 05:50 PM

There are essentially three ways to finance a car purchase:

(1) Yourself (cash payment)
(2) Third party financing which you obtain yourself
(3) Third party financing obtained through the dealer

The dealer only makes money on the financing via the third option. Your retail installment contract will contain an assignment provision. The dealer will try to get you to agree to a higher rate than they can get from the third party lender who's taking the assignment because the dealer keeps the spread (NPV of the offer rate minus the buy rate). The bigger the spread, the more the dealer makes.

Unless you're getting a published special rate from the manufacturer's lending arm, you can pretty much assume that the dealer is marking up the buy rate at least a point or two. That's why you always secure your own financing beforehand. If you do, you'll find that the dealer is very often able to lower the rate they offer you to at least match what you've obtained elsewhere.

addy85 · 09-04-2008, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLud

There are essentially three ways to finance a car purchase:

(1) Yourself (cash payment)
(2) Third party financing which you obtain yourself
(3) Third party financing obtained through the dealer

The dealer only makes money on the financing via the third option. Your retail installment contract will contain an assignment provision. The dealer will try to get you to agree to a higher rate than they can get from the third party lender who's taking the assignment because the dealer keeps the spread (NPV of the offer rate minus the buy rate). The bigger the spread, the more the dealer makes.

Unless you're getting a published special rate from the manufacturer's lending arm, you can pretty much assume that the dealer is marking up the buy rate at least a point or two. That's why you always secure your own financing beforehand. If you do, you'll find that the dealer is very often able to lower the rate they offer you to at least match what you've obtained elsewhere.

well said

J08M3 · 09-04-2008, 08:23 PM

yes, but I'm not going to get money for the same price a dealer will who does many transactions a year with a certain bank. Although i am curious as to when the dealer gets their share of the money, since the check I write every month for my payment is made out to the bank.

Sorry to side track from the original topic.

TLud · 09-04-2008, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J08M3

yes, but I'm not going to get money for the same price a dealer will who does many transactions a year with a certain bank. Although i am curious as to when the dealer gets their share of the money, since the check I write every month for my payment is made out to the bank.

Sorry to side track from the original topic.

The dealer gets their money shortly after assignment of the retail installment contract to the bank, which generally occurs as soon as you execute the contract.

Yes, you most likely will get the same rate from a particlar lender as the dealer will get for you. You're ignoring the fact that either way, the bank is making the same loan (taking the same risk) whether you obtain the loan directly from them or through the dealer. Either way, the loan is yours, not the dealer's. All you're doing when you obtain the loan yourself is cutting out the middleman.

addy85 · 09-04-2008, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLud

The dealer gets their money shortly after assignment of the retail installment contract to the bank, which generally occurs as soon as you execute the contract.

Yes, you most likely will get the same rate from a particlar lender as the dealer will get for you. You're ignoring the fact that either way, the bank is making the same loan (taking the same risk) whether you obtain the loan directly from them or through the dealer. Either way, the loan is yours, not the dealer's. All you're doing when you obtain the loan yourself is cutting out the middleman.

bank cuts us a check for amount being financed so tlud is correct, dealer gets the money as soon as the deal is billed.

watrob · 09-04-2008, 10:16 PM

Fellas, Mats are oldest delievery missed item ever.

Dealers are dealers, the Mats in Australia are around $300 to $400 here, the M3 e93 DTC Convertible optioned up is around $209,000 onroad.

If you ask for mats its charged, if you get a discount on the price of the car it's fine, but the price of the mats is in there on the invoice, if you forget about the mats and ask for them afterwards sometimes you get them and sometimes you have to pay extra for them.

The secret is when dealing with BMW on new cars choose wisely, in Australia most of the BMW's don't come standard with mats.

If you haven't done the deal with mats to start with correctly and it's not on the contract why would you demand them for free. I never take the word of a salesperson unless he writes it on the contract.

You have to draw the line somewhere, you don't even get the iPod cable here, its an extra, the M3 comes with USB and the iPod leather holder but you don't get the iPod cable! You cannot demand, you can ask, and if they give them to you its great or 10% off its fine too, but why would you want to burn your dealer over a couple hundred dollars.

Your cars are in the $70k bracket ours the $200k bracket and we don't get mats for free, there got to be in that invoice somewhere.

The deal is the deal and I bet that tank full of fuel you get has been allocated to that car as well. Do you honestly think that when you get your car seviced you get the car wash for free that costing is built into your service.

Have you ever said don't wash the car and they discount the service by $50.00. Every car has allocated a wash fee built into the service fee, who do you think is paying for the cleaners & cleaning chemicals at the dealership. Why do you think you pay a dealer delievery fee.

So why would you honestly think you are going to get mats for free, they are never free, you just don't known how much you have really paid for them.

Oh, here are are some free mats & I filled the tank up for free as well. Fuel is charged in there somewhere and if you failed to ask for mats at contract time they will charge you, or invoice the car the mats but they never are for free.

You see why the dealers get tough on this, mats are the most commonest thing asked for at delievery time because the purchaser forget to order them at contract time. Have you not notice how they jump at you when you say "where are my free mats" or "where are the mats" or "I thought they it came with mats", Like hell you did, you just forgot to order them and now your just about to make a fool of yourself.

And that bottle of FREE champers and those FREE caps, the FREE umbrella that you think are in the boot, when get home are not there.

And then you go home and tell all your friend and get on this forum and say "that F***ken dealer would'nt give me any FREE mats.

Well I am writing this with a glass of champers in one hand, a BMW cap on and the umbrella is sitting in the corner,----------------Cheers everyone

epoints · 09-04-2008, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skierman64

When I went into my dealership I made sure I knew the exact amount I was going to end up paying, including all the extra little things like registration, tax, etc. I had it all written out and compared it to the amounts the finance manager quoted me. The only discrepancy I had was on the registration paid to the state, and I told them it was wrong before I signed the paperwork. After my registration paperwork came back from the state with the proper amount it turns out the dealership over charged me $22. I called them and they sent me the check without any questions. As it should be.

The dealership is making enough money as it is, they shouldn't try to nickel and dime people.

I totally agreed. When my dealer charged me the wrong MF based on our verbal agreement, I felt they were very dishonest and have to resolve to this kind of tactic. I gave them benefit of doubt and write up a nice email and asked them to make it right. It was only $5 per month for total of $180. No big deal when we are talking about $70k car, but i believe my emotional stress costs more than that.

They redo my contract and made it right...and I would give them good referral.

Ask them to make it "Right"...

Dascamel · 09-05-2008, 01:02 AM

Good service these days is hard to find. Being scammed for 5$ doesn't make it any more right than $5000. Take care of your clients and in the end they will take care of you.(99% of the time)

VR000M5 · 09-05-2008, 03:44 PM

its pretty stupid for the dealership to not make it right. $220 isn't much in comparison to having a good reputation. One bad review leads to many bad reviews and many negative thoughts about one dealership. In my opinion, the dealership should have manned up, refunded OP's $220, and give him his mats and plus on top give him a discount on some accessory to make him feel better for all the trouble he's been through. Although, I wouldn't get all worked up about the situation but i would be very put off and refuse to send any business to that dealership. If I had $80k to spend, why spend it at a dealership that treats you poorly.

bsatestb · 09-05-2008, 04:38 PM

Hey Guys,
I am the guy that started this thread. I have been away from the computer for a couple of days and am surprised at all the comments. I can't respond to all of them but can break it down into the two categories:
1) To the people who think I am being a douche--
I was just upset that at no time did they offer me money back on the $220.00 difference. I felt their "solution" was unfair. They were offering me accessories, but not even the full amount. They offered the price of the mats subtracted from $220.00. My point is, what the hell do the mats have to do with the $220.00 bucks. Swarmy in my opinion. I am no longer upset and obviously I am not going to sue anyone over this. Just venting on the day I found this out. Although, if I did sue it would be a hassle for them, not me. I would be pro se, they would would have to send a hired lawyer.
2) To the people who understood where I was coming from--
It was all about the principle of the matter. I paid 77k and made them a ton of money. I could give a shit about the $220.00, but I was upset how it was handled. Totally surprised at the number of responses though! Going back to enjoying my car!
Dean

09-04-2008, 03:28 PM	#23
MTROIS Major 188 Rep 1,153 Posts Drives: on the wrong side of the Ocean Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: New Jersey, USA iTrader: (0)	Dean, I perfectly understand the way you feel and fully support your reaction... except that we should not lose our sanity or mental health because of these dishonest guys. Just to let you know, something very similar happened to me: when I negotiated my car, the CA threw in a few accesories to get me to make the deal, including the M3 mats. Fine. Long story short, I had to fight this up to the morning I was picking up my car at the Performance Center!!! That morning I had no other choice than to raise my voice on the phone and clearly threaten them to give a bad review with BMW NA so that they would finaly fax over the request to the Performance Center to put the mats in the car (which by the way I was so lucky to get the M3 ones as they had been on back order for several weeks before). Anyhow, I perfectly support you here because it is about the PRINCIPLE. I actually feel the same way on the road: if a guys seems to be lost and/or puts his signal I will let him go in front of me to allow him to exit the highway/road... but if I see that the guy is simply trying to screw an entire line of cars which, like me, are following the law and/or just tries to gain one more place in a long line....then SCR@@$$ him!! Anyway, good luck to you! __________________ 2019 M2C MT (ED + PCD) \| 2008 M3 Coupé MT \| 1995 M3 LTW MT \| BMW CCA HPDE Instructor
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09-04-2008, 03:32 PM	#24
King Tut NASA SpecE30 Racer 82 Rep 1,307 Posts Drives: 2006 Honda S2000 TT3 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Gulf Breeze, FL iTrader: (2)	I too am worried about of all things my floor mats when I do the PDC, but I will make sure my CA has them there or sends them to me, and I will bring them myself. __________________ King Tut 2012 BMW M3 Individual: Sold lsb.ridedomain.com 1987 BMW 325is SpecE30: spece30.ridedomain.com 2009 BMW M3 Coupe: Sold e92.ridedomain.com
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09-04-2008, 04:04 PM	#25
Ryan(e92) Captain 17 Rep 705 Posts Drives: SG M6 coupe Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Newport Beach iTrader: (6)	Whats all this talk of full price about? Do you think a dealer wants you to pay cash for their cars? Answer: NO. They make all their money financing cars. You ordered a car in December and didnt get it until now? How the F is that possible? The accessories credit is a shitty way of trying to make things right. We can all agree on that. Nobody wants the M3 leather jacket or polo shirt. Its 200 bucks let it go. I ate 20 grand trading in my 335 with 11,000 miles on it.
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09-04-2008, 04:18 PM	#26
skierman64 Brigadier General 125 Rep 3,071 Posts Drives: E92M3-E46M3-E46Wagon-E89Z4-E36 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Greater St Louis Metro area iTrader: (1) Garage List 1994 325is Race Car [0.00] 2011 BMW Z4 [0.00] 1998 M3 Coupe [0.00] 2008 M3 Coupe [0.00]	When I went into my dealership I made sure I knew the exact amount I was going to end up paying, including all the extra little things like registration, tax, etc. I had it all written out and compared it to the amounts the finance manager quoted me. The only discrepancy I had was on the registration paid to the state, and I told them it was wrong before I signed the paperwork. After my registration paperwork came back from the state with the proper amount it turns out the dealership over charged me $22. I called them and they sent me the check without any questions. As it should be. The dealership is making enough money as it is, they shouldn't try to nickel and dime people. __________________ Invest Wisely...The best mod for your money?? BMWCCA high performance driver's school. The mod that lasts a lifetime and improves the performance of any car you drive[/LEFT]
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09-04-2008, 05:50 PM	#31
TLud Colonel 108 Rep 2,279 Posts Drives: '12 Golf R Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Texas iTrader: (3)	There are essentially three ways to finance a car purchase: (1) Yourself (cash payment) (2) Third party financing which you obtain yourself (3) Third party financing obtained through the dealer The dealer only makes money on the financing via the third option. Your retail installment contract will contain an assignment provision. The dealer will try to get you to agree to a higher rate than they can get from the third party lender who's taking the assignment because the dealer keeps the spread (NPV of the offer rate minus the buy rate). The bigger the spread, the more the dealer makes. Unless you're getting a published special rate from the manufacturer's lending arm, you can pretty much assume that the dealer is marking up the buy rate at least a point or two. That's why you always secure your own financing beforehand. If you do, you'll find that the dealer is very often able to lower the rate they offer you to at least match what you've obtained elsewhere.
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09-04-2008, 08:23 PM	#33
J08M3 Major General 285 Rep 6,007 Posts Drives: 2011 M3 COUPE Join Date: May 2008 Location: NEW YORK iTrader: (8)	yes, but I'm not going to get money for the same price a dealer will who does many transactions a year with a certain bank. Although i am curious as to when the dealer gets their share of the money, since the check I write every month for my payment is made out to the bank. Sorry to side track from the original topic. __________________
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09-04-2008, 10:16 PM	#36
watrob Lieutenant Colonel 140 Rep 1,597 Posts Drives: MY2022 X5 M-Sport 45e White Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Brisbane - Australia iTrader: (0) Garage List 2021 Toyota Yaris Z ... [0.00] 2022 BMW X5 G05 e45 [0.00] 2015 Ferrari Cali T [0.00]	Fellas, Mats are oldest delievery missed item ever. Dealers are dealers, the Mats in Australia are around $300 to $400 here, the M3 e93 DTC Convertible optioned up is around $209,000 onroad. If you ask for mats its charged, if you get a discount on the price of the car it's fine, but the price of the mats is in there on the invoice, if you forget about the mats and ask for them afterwards sometimes you get them and sometimes you have to pay extra for them. The secret is when dealing with BMW on new cars choose wisely, in Australia most of the BMW's don't come standard with mats. If you haven't done the deal with mats to start with correctly and it's not on the contract why would you demand them for free. I never take the word of a salesperson unless he writes it on the contract. You have to draw the line somewhere, you don't even get the iPod cable here, its an extra, the M3 comes with USB and the iPod leather holder but you don't get the iPod cable! You cannot demand, you can ask, and if they give them to you its great or 10% off its fine too, but why would you want to burn your dealer over a couple hundred dollars. Your cars are in the $70k bracket ours the $200k bracket and we don't get mats for free, there got to be in that invoice somewhere. The deal is the deal and I bet that tank full of fuel you get has been allocated to that car as well. Do you honestly think that when you get your car seviced you get the car wash for free that costing is built into your service. Have you ever said don't wash the car and they discount the service by $50.00. Every car has allocated a wash fee built into the service fee, who do you think is paying for the cleaners & cleaning chemicals at the dealership. Why do you think you pay a dealer delievery fee. So why would you honestly think you are going to get mats for free, they are never free, you just don't known how much you have really paid for them. Oh, here are are some free mats & I filled the tank up for free as well. Fuel is charged in there somewhere and if you failed to ask for mats at contract time they will charge you, or invoice the car the mats but they never are for free. You see why the dealers get tough on this, mats are the most commonest thing asked for at delievery time because the purchaser forget to order them at contract time. Have you not notice how they jump at you when you say "where are my free mats" or "where are the mats" or "I thought they it came with mats", Like hell you did, you just forgot to order them and now your just about to make a fool of yourself. And that bottle of FREE champers and those FREE caps, the FREE umbrella that you think are in the boot, when get home are not there. And then you go home and tell all your friend and get on this forum and say "that F***ken dealer would'nt give me any FREE mats. Well I am writing this with a glass of champers in one hand, a BMW cap on and the umbrella is sitting in the corner,----------------Cheers everyone __________________ MY22 X5 M-Sport 45e White, 22"rims, Red Calipers, Ceramic Pads. Better off saying what it does not have and that's a B&O Audio System, otherwise all option boxes are ticked.
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09-05-2008, 01:02 AM	#38
Dascamel Lieutenant Colonel 48 Rep 1,664 Posts Drives: 2008 e92 M3, 2010 e91 328i Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bakersfield, CA iTrader: (0)	Good service these days is hard to find. Being scammed for 5$ doesn't make it any more right than $5000. Take care of your clients and in the end they will take care of you.(99% of the time) __________________ 2008 E92 M3 Jerez Black,DCT,Fox Red ext,Prem,Tech,19", ipod/usb, CF roof and trim 2010 E91 328i Space Gray,Black int, M sport, most options 2007 Montego Blue 335i (retired)
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09-05-2008, 03:44 PM	#39
VR000M5 10 Rep 246 Posts Drives: 2015 F10 M5 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Canada iTrader: (1)	its pretty stupid for the dealership to not make it right. $220 isn't much in comparison to having a good reputation. One bad review leads to many bad reviews and many negative thoughts about one dealership. In my opinion, the dealership should have manned up, refunded OP's $220, and give him his mats and plus on top give him a discount on some accessory to make him feel better for all the trouble he's been through. Although, I wouldn't get all worked up about the situation but i would be very put off and refuse to send any business to that dealership. If I had $80k to spend, why spend it at a dealership that treats you poorly.
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09-05-2008, 04:38 PM	#40
bsatestb Enlisted Member 2 Rep 30 Posts Drives: 2008 M3, 2010 MB ml550 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Chicago iTrader: (0)	Hey Guys, I am the guy that started this thread. I have been away from the computer for a couple of days and am surprised at all the comments. I can't respond to all of them but can break it down into the two categories: 1) To the people who think I am being a douche-- I was just upset that at no time did they offer me money back on the $220.00 difference. I felt their "solution" was unfair. They were offering me accessories, but not even the full amount. They offered the price of the mats subtracted from $220.00. My point is, what the hell do the mats have to do with the $220.00 bucks. Swarmy in my opinion. I am no longer upset and obviously I am not going to sue anyone over this. Just venting on the day I found this out. Although, if I did sue it would be a hassle for them, not me. I would be pro se, they would would have to send a hired lawyer. 2) To the people who understood where I was coming from-- It was all about the principle of the matter. I paid 77k and made them a ton of money. I could give a shit about the $220.00, but I was upset how it was handled. Totally surprised at the number of responses though! Going back to enjoying my car! Dean
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