It just makes me sad see this on the BMW site...

[Rk-d]

Originally Posted by W///

Do you remember the first reviews that came out for the E9x M3?
- Too heavy
- Steering is too numb compared to E46 M3
- Didn't look as good as E46
- Nothing in common with the E30 M3

Blah blah blah. I could go on and on about how people were complaining that M has lost their way then, long before the X5/6M came out. But yet here we are on m3post drooling over E9x M3's.

Personally, I have high hopes because
1) The trend of heavier cars is starting to reverse. There's more emphasis on lightweight. Of course this is to a certain extent. With safety a priority now, don't expect a pretty big coupe to weigh under 3000 lbs. Let's be realistic here.
2) EPS is still somewhat of a new technology. I didn't expect anyone to match hydraulic feel first time around. But Porsche has shown with the new GT3 that progress is being made every single iteration of this technology. Heck, look at what Benvo is doing now. He's playing around with Servotronic for our M3's.

I just think it's silly to give up on the M3/4 before even seeing it IRL. And I feel like I say this everytime, but Porsche makes a V6 Cayenne diesel, and no longer offer MT with the GT3. Are Porsche dead too? Because they sure don't really make cars like they used to either (my answer is no, they are just fine).

/novel.

And yet the M division didn't have the X5M/6M when the e9x was introduced, nor did it have the M "sport series" branded, 'non-M', cars. Whatever legitimate complaints of the e9x there were, it's peanuts compared to the absolute travesty of an M branded SUV.

M completely betrayed it's roots with those cars and the e9x is the last vestige of the old group. It's hard to take M seriously as a motorsport division when they have fat pigs like the M5/6 and X5/6M. Now they are killing the m3 legacy by splitting it into two different, arbitrary models for the sole reason, I presume, of competing with Audi.

As far as I can tell, BMW aspires to be Audi, which is a pathetic state of affairs. I'm sure the M3/4 will be a good car, but the division, as a whole, is lost.

BTW, as much as I am a fan of Porsche, there is clearly mission creep in that company as well.

[davesaddiction]

Originally Posted by W///

Personally, I have high hopes because
1) The trend of heavier cars is starting to reverse. There's more emphasis on lightweight. Of course this is to a certain extent. With safety a priority now, don't expect a pretty big coupe to weigh under 3000 lbs. Let's be realistic here.
2) EPS is still somewhat of a new technology. I didn't expect anyone to match hydraulic feel first time around. But Porsche has shown with the new GT3 that progress is being made every single iteration of this technology. Heck, look at what Benvo is doing now. He's playing around with Servotronic for our M3's.

I just think it's silly to give up on the M3/4 before even seeing it IRL. And I feel like I say this everytime, but Porsche makes a V6 Cayenne diesel, and no longer offer MT with the GT3. Are Porsche dead too? Because they sure don't really make cars like they used to either (my answer is no, they are just fine).

Very thankful that we're starting to see curb weights dropping - very positive for sports cars across the board. I think the new Jaguar F-Type's only real black mark is its weight (especially when compared with the Boxster/Cayman/911). I love my car but I do wish it weighed less...

Originally Posted by robotk

As far as I can tell, BMW aspires to be Audi, which is a pathetic state of affairs. I'm sure the M3/4 will be a good car, but the division, as a whole, is lost.

BTW, as much as I am a fan of Porsche, there is clearly mission creep in that company as well.

NA M is dead; turbos are here to stay, as is EPS. I hope the upcoming M3/4 and M2 restores some faith in the division - we'll see. There are far too many massive GTs and SUVs weighing it down, literally.

As hard as is was to accept the fact that Porsche was making the Cayenne, it (along with the Panamera) have made huge business sense, which allows the company to continue to create the incredible sports cars it does. The 918 is a think of beauty - and 7:00 flat at the 'Ring?! And they're coming back to Le Mans next year.

Long live Porsche. Long live ///M.

[JWE90]

Someone had an X5/M out at Laguna Seca awhile back. It was an embarrassment. I think he just off-roaded the corkscrew it was so top-heavy. I have a picture of it somewhere.

(However the X5 did better driving over that metal grating off on the right than my M3 did so the truck may have some redeeming features.)

[W///]

Originally Posted by robotk

And yet the M division didn't have the X5M/6M when the e9x was introduced, nor did it have the M "sport series" branded, 'non-M', cars. Whatever legitimate complaints of the e9x there were, it's peanuts compared to the absolute travesty of an M branded SUV.

M completely betrayed it's roots with those cars and the e9x is the last vestige of the old group. It's hard to take M seriously as a motorsport division when they have fat pigs like the M5/6 and X5/6M. Now they are killing the m3 legacy by splitting it into two different, arbitrary models for the sole reason, I presume, of competing with Audi.

As far as I can tell, BMW aspires to be Audi, which is a pathetic state of affairs. I'm sure the M3/4 will be a good car, but the division, as a whole, is lost.

BTW, as much as I am a fan of Porsche, there is clearly mission creep in that company as well.

Let me ask you this. If the M2 or M4 happen to be the most amazing cars when they are released, are you seriously telling me that you wouldn't consider them because BMW makes the X5M?

When Porsche went through with the Boxster and Cayenne, there was the same kind of revolt from the Porsche guys. Anything but a air-cooled 911 = travesty. Yet I would gladly drive all their cars now (minus the Panamera, you couldn't pay me to be seen around in one of those )

This is my point: I don't buy a car based on the BMW badge, or the M badge. If the car is good, then it's good. I couldn't care else the company makes. That's not how I judge cars.

[JWE90]

Second point: Lamborghini's main business is tractors. The sports cars were just a sideline. Would anyone seriously not buy a Lamborghini b/c it is made by a farm equipment company?

[bimmerfrk]

Originally Posted by F1Venom

The X5M is probably the best SUV in the world.

Benz has that title with the G class. That is a solid car and it does not even have to be the AMG version. Solid all around!

[nullrouted]

Originally Posted by bimmerfrk

Benz has that title with the G class. That is a solid car and it does not even have to be the AMG version. Solid all around!

I hope that guy was kidding about the X5M being a great SUV -- If any of you watch Top Gear, you'd have seen the episode where the pathetic thing couldn't even get up a grass hill -- There is ZERO point in owning an X5M, it can't go offroad... track it? please. So what's the point? Only reason to have one is if you're a yuppie city-dweller who wants to waste a bunch of gas in your 'Fast SUV' that your buddies think is cool.


EDIT: I'm also not disparaging the X5 itself, good looking car and decent offroad capability, it's the M-version that made it useless in my eyes.

[davesaddiction]

Originally Posted by W///

If the car is good, then it's good. I couldn't care else the company makes.

Hell, if I was younger a Scion would currently be on my list!

Just kidding - I really want the BRZ STi.

[W///]

Originally Posted by nullrouted

I hope that guy was kidding about the X5M being a great SUV -- If any of you watch Top Gear, you'd have seen the episode where the pathetic thing couldn't even get up a grass hill -- There is ZERO point in owning an X5M, it can't go offroad... track it? please. So what's the point? Only reason to have one is if you're a yuppie city-dweller who wants to waste a bunch of gas in your 'Fast SUV' that your buddies think is cool.


EDIT: I'm also not disparaging the X5 itself, good looking car and decent offroad capability, it's the M-version that made it useless in my eyes.

How many cars/SUV's do you know that can carry 5 people comfortably, with luggage, while being luxurious, comfortable. Oh and able to do 0-60 in under 5s?

How many people do you know that would actually take their $60-100k cars off roading? When was the last time you went into the woods and saw a Cayenne GTS playing in the mud?

So what I'm saying is yes, there are way more yuppies than serious offroaders driving X5's. Just like how I wouldn't be surprised if there are more people that don't track their M3's vs people that do track them.

Originally Posted by davesaddiction

Hell, if I was younger a Scion would currently be on my list!

Just kidding - I really want the BRZ STi.

Hey now, I'd gladly take an FRS!!
While I have admitted many times that I don't care about badges, this is the only time I'd switch it out, for a Toyota badge

[nujabes24]

Originally Posted by nullrouted

I hope that guy was kidding about the X5M being a great SUV -- If any of you watch Top Gear, you'd have seen the episode where the pathetic thing couldn't even get up a grass hill -- There is ZERO point in owning an X5M, it can't go offroad... track it? please. So what's the point? Only reason to have one is if you're a yuppie city-dweller who wants to waste a bunch of gas in your 'Fast SUV' that your buddies think is cool.


EDIT: I'm also not disparaging the X5 itself, good looking car and decent offroad capability, it's the M-version that made it useless in my eyes.

word i agree, i rather get a ford f150 raptor idk thats my taste, comfortable, fast as shit and can go off road and a better price. just my opinion

[davesaddiction]

Originally Posted by W///

Hey now, I'd gladly take an FRS!!
While I have admitted many times that I don't care about badges, this is the only time I'd switch it out, for a Toyota badge

Ha!

Personally, I'd want the Subaru because they were the ones that actually did the work of developing the car.

[F1Venom]

None of you have ever experienced an X5M if you think of it that way. And please, as if any of you have ever gone off-roading anyway. Roads exist for a reason and I bet not even 10% of Ford Raptors have seen the woods. Let alone Porsche Cayennes who are primarily driven by women. The X5M is the fastest stock SUV and its handling, acceleration, and looks are other-worldly.

[nullrouted]

Originally Posted by W///

How many cars/SUV's do you know that can carry 5 people comfortably, with luggage, while being luxurious, comfortable. Oh and able to do 0-60 in under 5s?

This one is easy:

2013 Range Rover Supercharged -- 4.5s 0-60 -- Unparalleled off-road capability, and certainly luxurious and comfortable -- At only about $10k more than X5M, this SUV is a complete no-brainer really.

[W///]

Originally Posted by nullrouted

This one is easy:

2013 Range Rover Supercharged -- 4.5s 0-60 -- Unparalleled off-road capability, and certainly luxurious and comfortable -- At only about $10k more than X5M, this SUV is a complete no-brainer really.

And you are telling me you'd take you $100k+ Range Rover off-roading? Really?

And also kindly prove to me the RR handles anywhere as well as the X5M.

See most people that I know that are into this kind of thing, take their $3000 Jeep Wranglers off-roading

[nullrouted]

Sure, if I were in the market to spend $100k on an SUV, I would want it to go off-road. To me, that is the core competency of an SUV, unless we remove the U. I simply do not see the point in most fast SUVs that only work on the road. Take your barometer, for example: 'carry 5 people comfortably and do 0-60 in less than 5 seconds' why bother with an SUV at all then? Just get an M5, since you're never going off-road anyway.

Maybe we're just debating personal preference at this point, just my $0.02.

[Da Hapa]

Originally Posted by F1Venom

The X5M is probably the best SUV in the world.

Measured how exactly?

To tow? Nope.
To haul people? Nope.
To go offroad? Nope.
To cover wet roads in a hurry? Nope.
To hustle around a racetrack? Nope.
To impress the neighbors? Nope.
To fill your SUV "needs" if you're a die hard BMW guy/gal? Yep.

The X5M is a pretty damned good SUV within a very small spectrum of what people use SUV's for. But even as a driver's vehicle, it honestly can't hold a candle to several versions of the 958 Cayenne. IMO, of course.

[Da Hapa]

Originally Posted by W///

This is my point: I don't buy a car based on the BMW badge, or the M badge. If the car is good, then it's good. I couldn't care else the company makes. That's not how I judge cars.

Amen. And as a hard core Porsche guy, I can tell you that I honestly don't care how many butt ugly Panameras they sell so long as the profits from those sales (and the sale of Cayennes) provide the profits necessary to keep the shareholders and markets happy and to fund continued development of their sports cars.

Some have argued that Porsche simply wouldn't exist today had it not shared parts between the 996 and 986 or brought the original 955 to market. That might be too simplistic but I suspect that BMW's profit margins on M sport line cars (which I personally think dilute the brand far worse than M badged SUV's do) play a similar role in that they make it feasible for the company to continue to offer what are really niche vehicles.

[VMcV3y]

Originally Posted by aus

when you click on the "M" to see the /M cars, you get two SUV's as the main picture.




.

Next month: "M-Sport Motorcycles" as the main picture.


- V

.

[elitex]

Originally Posted by F1Venom

I'm deeply disappointed with the F10 M5/M6 so I have no hope for liking the F30 M3. I'm looking to buy an E90 ZCP M3 and only go to Porsche cars amongst others. BMW is turning into Lexus IMO.

F10 M5/M6 are amazing cars, you need longer than a test drive to realize this. I shared your sentiment at first but after owning one for few months, I now realize how good this car is.

Sure it could use a louder exhaust but overall this car is perfect. You just have to realize the target market, it is no track car. If you really think about it, neither is M3.

I am thinking about buying a Exige s as a track car, hmmm.

[nujabes24]

Originally Posted by VMcV3y

Next month: "M-Sport Motorcycles" as the main picture.


- V

.

Haha true but they already started with the HPS, next year the s1000rrM and s1000rr M sport edition

[mdosu]

Originally Posted by F1Venom

The X5M is probably the best SUV in the world.

[davesaddiction]

Originally Posted by elitex

F10 M5/M6 are amazing cars, you need longer than a test drive to realize this. I shared your sentiment at first but after owning one for few months, I now realize how good this car is.

Different strokes for different folks.

Benvo dumped his for the V10 in the old M5.