Consensus on a 'Good' Deal in Canada

[Kuwen]

I'm looking for some insight on pricing for those who have ordered their cars from the dealer. I've spent quite a bit of time digging through the 'New and Preowned M3 Pricing, Ordering, Tracking..." forum which is rife with pricing information almost exclusively from south of the border with a common theme of $1,000-$2,000 over invoice.

Obviously Canada is different market and my expectations are certainly more grounded; what would the consensus be with respect to what people would consider a 'good' deal? Have people found that dealers are appreciably more flexible on price for the cars taken off their lot versus ordered?

I'm also curious if history has shown whether the release of new models/generations evaporates any thought of negotiating (re. F80/F82)...

Cheers,
Kuwen

[baba louey]

I worked under the assumption that BMW dealerships mark up the cars by 8% to get the MSRP. So if you can get an 8% discount that would be great but I think highly unlikely as that dealer won't be in business for long. It really boils down to what you are willing to allow the dealer to make on the deal. Decide that number, stick to it and be prepared to walk out the door if they won't go for your offer. There could be more complex things going on with pricing but I don't think BMW offers many manufacturer to dealer discounts for M3s.

Dealers may be more motivated to sell cars on their lots as everyday they are making interest payment on those cars. However a newly ordered car costs them nothing.

Also if M3's are a hot item in your area, maybe you have to pay full price. Hope not.

[bobblehead]

good deal if you can wait and walk into any bmw dealers in the middle of winter, I am sure they will be more than happy to discount the car and get it off their inventory.

[py0413]

The best I have heard was 9% off the msrp on a cash purchase. Hopefully some people are getting better deals than that else where.

[JulieDriving]

Originally Posted by py0413

The best I have heard was 9% off the msrp on a cash purchase. Hopefully some people are getting better deals than that else where.

Euh....... that (or was) the whole mark up on the M3 before. Unless that's counting a few thousands in manufactuer-to-dealer incentives for moving older model years off the lots. The 2012 M3s have $3500 (cash) rebate on them now.

And I've heard cash purchases actually are not more interesting to the dealer because...... regardless of what, they always get their cash. Whether it's cash from BMW Finance or cash from your bank account. But I know some manufactuers give a kick back to dealers for financing or lease deals, because the Mothership makes money off of those. Don't know about BMW.

[baba louey]

Is the cash rebate from the manufacturer or the dealer? If it's officially from the manufacturer then there should be some very good deals to be had for 2012 M3's. If it's from the dealer then you should be able to get that deal any day of the year, in other words not such a good deal. In Calgary there are several colourful 2012 M3's (yellow, green, frozen black, etc) that the dealers should want to move. 2013 production started in July. I'm guessing no cash back for ordering those.

[baba louey]

PS. As juliedriving said cash ain't king/queen anymore. Dealers make their money many ways (not just by selling cars) and fiancing is one of them.

[JulieDriving]

Originally Posted by baba louey

Is the cash rebate from the manufacturer or the dealer? If it's officially from the manufacturer then there should be some very good deals to be had for 2012 M3's. If it's from the dealer then you should be able to get that deal any day of the year, in other words not such a good deal. In Calgary there are several colourful 2012 M3's (yellow, green, frozen black, etc) that the dealers should want to move. 2013 production started in July. I'm guessing no cash back for ordering those.

It's from BMW Canada. It applies to all 2012 M3's, so I imagine even the Individual ones. And, as you said, they stopped being produced in July, and the first 2013's are arriving on the lots now, so it applies to all 2012's still on the lot.

EDITED to add: That's correct, no incentives currently on the 2013 M3.

[baba louey]

Well then there should be good deals to be had if one can find a M3 that they like on the lot. I would subtract off the $3500 from the original MSRP and start negotiating from that point as the new MSRP.

[py0413]

Cash purchase/sales does not benefit a dealer more than leasing/financing but it is most worry-free way to make a sale because you don't have to deal with unapproved applications. In fact, most dealer would prefer making a sale on lease/finance, they end up making more money.

Back in 2008, I got $8000 off the MSRP plus 0.9% interest on my sedan finance purchase. They might still be able to offer discount in that number or greater, but I have not heard such low interest finance offer in Canada ever after that year.

The M3 is really an amazing car. I sold mine back in spring and quite often the idea of buying another one come cross my mind. This had never happened to any other vehicles I ha owned in the past. Just simply unforgettable.

[airwave808]

Originally Posted by baba louey

I worked under the assumption that BMW dealerships mark up the cars by 8% to get the MSRP. So if you can get an 8% discount that would be great but I think highly unlikely as that dealer won't be in business for long. It really boils down to what you are willing to allow the dealer to make on the deal. Decide that number, stick to it and be prepared to walk out the door if they won't go for your offer. There could be more complex things going on with pricing but I don't think BMW offers many manufacturer to dealer discounts for M3s.

Dealers may be more motivated to sell cars on their lots as everyday they are making interest payment on those cars. However a newly ordered car costs them nothing.

Also if M3's are a hot item in your area, maybe you have to pay full price. Hope not.

I got 8% off of MSRP (including options) on a non cash deal in Aug'11. Total discount came out to approx. $6,800.

[M Pulse]

The best bet is to run a wholesale report from carcostcanada.com

Once you've figured out the dealer cost subtract any incentives then add 3-4% markup and that's where you should start your negotiations.

Depending on how good or bad of a sales month they're having or what time of the year it is they're usually happy with a 4% profit.

And NEVER EVER agree to pay any dealer "admin" fees. That's just another way for them to make profit and put more $$$ right into their pockets. I've always been successful in getting the dealer to waive their admin fees. Most people see "fees" as non-negotiable but it's the complete opposite. Admin fees are just another way for dealers to pad their own pockets. There are certain fees like air tax, fuel tax, etc that are governed by the province and you can't get those waived.

One last tip, and this is probably the most important one... never negotiate based on monthly payments. Most sales reps will immediately try to figure out what your monthly budget is and try to get you focused on that... in return you completely lose focus on the final purchase price and walk away with a big smile on your face thinking that you just out smarted the sales rep. But guess who's really smiling??? It's the sales rep & the dealer!!! Cause they probably convinced you that if you just put down an extra grand or two you can stay within your monthly budget or they've extended your loan term by another year to get the monthly payments down. Guess who's the winner in that case?? Yup, you guessed right... it's the dealer.

I can't stress this enough, always always negotiate based on the final purchase price. Use a calculator or a spreadsheet and calculate your own monthly payments. Don't let them know what your monthly budget is cause then they'll always come out on top.

One sure sign that you got ripped off is the day that you go to pick up your car and the dealer gave you a nice bouquet of flowers and a bottle of wine. They were so pleased with the profit they made on the deal that they don't mind buying you flowers and wine. They've found a sucker and want you to come back in the future for your next vehicle purchase If this sounds familiar to you than I'm truely sorry... you got ripped off!!!

[baba louey]

Hey Kuwen, for someone who wanted some info on dealing for a M3, you sure are quiet. There is some hella good information here.

Remember that dealership owners live in big houses and knownledge is power. Learn as much as you can about the buying process and then go buy your new car with confidence.

[Kuwen]

The CarCostCanada report has been one of my starting points showing markup to be ~9% over that of invoice; I've attempted to vet that number with a couple other 'invoice providing' websites that are free and they are all very consistent. The CarCostCanada site also provides both public and hidden incentives for the customer and the dealer, as well as financing / leasing rates; both very useful to have in your back pocket.

That said, I'm still uncertain how far this information will get me when dealing with such an expensive and (relatively) low volume car. I can appreciate, as many have mentioned here, the extra bargaining power such knowledge provides when buying something off the lot but can the same be said when ordering from scratch and consuming one of their few allocations (ordering from scratch being what’s currently rattling around in my head)? As you already pointed out baba louey, they're not making interest payments on those cars and can be a lot more patient with selling their allocation which isn't sitting on their lot.

To go one step further, with the F80 on the horizon, are there many people here who had their name in the hat for the E92? Should one expect negligible incentives on the first year release of a new generation?

Greatly appreciate all the feedback that has been provided thus far, tremendous community you guys (and gals) have here.

[bobblehead]

I don't see any dealers will give out huge discount until about 6-9 months before the 1st delivery of the new M3.

The thought is if the dealer is sitting on a handful of M3 in their inventory, this would be the time to start clearing them out before buyers lose their interest on the old M3.

[baba louey]

My experience has been that if you want to order a car from scratch and the salesman knows you want to buy that car today, then he/she will be very highly motivated to get your business. As long as your offer is reasonable, they should go for it. If you are ordering a 2013, you won't get the 2012 factory discount but you will get the exact car that you want. It's early in the 2013 model year so there should be allotments available. Your research shows a consistent 8-9% mark up. Figure out what you want to pay and make the offer. Have some fun with the process. I thoroughly enjoyed my experience.

[VP M3]

Always insist on 7% off minimum, tell them that you know what their markup is. Go to a dealer with lots of inventory. When I bought my 08 E90 M3 just after the "financial crisis", Mississauga BMW had 20 M3s on the lot, they were desperate to get rid of them, so negotiating wasnt difficult.

Admin fees should not be paid, nor should you be paying for a full tank of gas. Try and talk them out of the dealer prep, etc.

Get them to throw in or discount items, such as winter wheel / tire package, extended warranty, other goodies, etc (as their markup on these items is huge).

Tell them you are shopping around and dont let your emotions / desire to own an M3 get the better of you (use your best Poker Face). This should not be an impulse buy! So dont be afraid to walk away.

Good luck with the negotiations!!

[airwave808]

What I simply did is told them that if they want to earn my business, it has to be 8% off of MSRP otherwise there are plenty of other options available. Also, a slight correction, I did not get the 8% discount on the Piano black trim which was $1200. I did get the discount for special order exterior paint and individual interior.

[ep99]

Just curious...anyone able to negotiate a better deal from the dealership with the Summer or Cold Weather tire package?

I noticed the pricing on the website stated that its MSRP.
And I am assuming that there is room for negotiation too.

I did try to ask them for a better deal when I was negotiating for the car.
But the sale person just said...I have a friend who will sell it to you for less...ba ba ba...yeah right...if I want to deal with someone else beside BMW...I will deal with his friend...

Whats your tactic...if you were able to negotiate for a deal?

Thanks

[bobblehead]

Yep.

Just call Mike Agius, Parts - Maranello. I just picked up some 19" rims from him and my friend bought a complete winter set package. (Note: they are for the M5 ... but it should not matter what model you have).

Just mention Maxbimmer forum pricing and he will give you the big discount, usually around 20% off the MSRP.

All other dealers refused to discount anything. I see you are from Markham, don't even bother with TCBMW or Endras ... They know people will have to buy ... therefore, I won't even bother calling them at all.

Originally Posted by ep99

Just curious...anyone able to negotiate a better deal from the dealership with the Summer or Cold Weather tire package?

I noticed the pricing on the website stated that its MSRP.
And I am assuming that there is room for negotiation too.

I did try to ask them for a better deal when I was negotiating for the car.
But the sale person just said...I have a friend who will sell it to you for less...ba ba ba...yeah right...if I want to deal with someone else beside BMW...I will deal with his friend...

Whats your tactic...if you were able to negotiate for a deal?

Thanks

[airwave808]

Parkview gives almost the same discount if you mention the forum.

[WSYF10M5]

Originally Posted by bobblehead

Yep.

Just call Mike Agius, Parts - Maranello. I just picked up some 19" rims from him and my friend bought a complete winter set package. (Note: they are for the M5 ... but it should not matter what model you have).

Just mention Maxbimmer forum pricing and he will give you the big discount, usually around 20% off the MSRP.

All other dealers refused to discount anything. I see you are from Markham, don't even bother with TCBMW or Endras ... They know people will have to buy ... therefore, I won't even bother calling them at all.

+1, good info! yes Mike gives the best prices in GTA, closer to what dealers in the states are offering.