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      09-25-2009, 08:16 AM   #45
Pavel
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Efficient Dynamics
Runflats
Turbos
Heavy weight
wayyy to much electronics
Automatic gearboxes as standard

Does this sound like a good foundation for "the ultimate driving machine"?


BMW, please give us the M3csl back!
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      09-25-2009, 09:00 AM   #46
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While I agree that the article wasn't inspiring, I'm not giving up on BMW or M based on some blah, blah, blah in print. I'll make my decision based on the product. I couldn't care less if the X cars have M models. It doesn't effect my M car in the least bit. It's still a great car.

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Originally Posted by ZED4Mjjl View Post
look at the Vette, crude as its technology may be and as large and inefficient as its engines may be, there isn't one M car even close to the gas mileage it gets,
There's nothing inefficient about Corvette V8s.

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Originally Posted by ChinoOrtega View Post
for a guy who has been a bmw fanboy since the movie License to Drive, I got my first e36 M3 at 17, my next car, at 21 the e46 M3, an at 27 the m3 e92, so yeah, all I've driven are M cars, 2 times at M School in Spartanburg, so yeah, for me the sky is falling, next car gt3
So you're basing your decision on an article posted on the internet? Maybe we should wait to see what the next M car looks like before jumping ship.
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      09-25-2009, 10:33 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
You know how things can get lost in translation....I think the "M Button" being referred to was the badge on the trunk! And those come on all M Models, including SUV/SAV. See, the M as part of the badge that makes an M3 an M3! In fact, put an M on anything and it's an M car. Simple and efficient.

I also thought that this is what he meant by "M Button".
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      09-25-2009, 09:38 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
To sum it up...

It was a very long article that said basically nothing. The only clear message I received was Segler is saying "screw the enthusiests, they need to accept change." And to me, that philosophy doesn't bode well for the M-Division fans.

http://www.skiddmark.com/?p=4128
Hence making it easier for Merc AMG and Audi S & RS to kick BMW-M's ass up and down the street. Who knows, but if the X6M and X5M or any indication of what is to come, count me out.

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      09-26-2009, 08:36 AM   #49
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I'm not too familiar with skiddmark.com, but c'mon!
Skiddmark.com is somewhat the successor of Driver's republic. The owner (?) introduced is a an open community after the close of DR.

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Originally Posted by dragon1761 View Post
So What is this guy a doctor of????
Dr. rer. pol. which literally and for this case wrongly translates to political science. Actually, he did a PhD in business sciences.


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      09-26-2009, 09:06 AM   #50
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Does no of you look at their latest concept car and get a little excited as to the future of BMW and M Division. I know I do.
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      09-26-2009, 11:33 AM   #51
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Does no of you look at their latest concept car and get a little excited as to the future of BMW and M Division. I know I do.
I'm not sure if everybody will understand your hint, Mr. Understatement.


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      09-26-2009, 11:43 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by southlight View Post
I'm not sure if everybody will understand your hint, Mr. Understatement.


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Agreed, I think it's perfectly clear that BMW and the M Division are in very good hand from a performance view point. Would you not concur.
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      09-26-2009, 01:30 PM   #53
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Agreed, I think it's perfectly clear that BMW and the M Division are in very good hand from a performance view point. Would you not concur.
Yes, I do. But, what do we know...


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      09-26-2009, 03:10 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
Yes, I do. But, what do we know...


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I think we both know the answer to that one.
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      09-26-2009, 04:46 PM   #55
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Can't get excited about turbos in future M cars. Getting away from what has made these cars great. If you want an economic car, go get a Nissan Altima.
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      09-28-2009, 03:01 AM   #56
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Yup. Based on the motors I've been reading about it seems the whole 3 Series is going to be turbocharged by the next generation. Although not officially stated, I believe that the inline 6 currently found in the 328i is going to be ditched in favor of a turbo 4, which will slot in below the turbo 6 in the 335i. BMW claims that it wants to stay ahead of the competition but it sounds like the entry level 3 is going to be a more lot like the current A4. If BMW is working on any NA inline 6's, they sure are being quiet about it.
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      09-28-2009, 06:19 AM   #57
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Murderface, you are most likely correct since BMW is known to be working on a turbo 4. This makes a lot of sense given that they already have turbo 6, 8, and 12. In fact there are even rumors of turbocharged 3 cylinders as well. If the M3 gets a V6 (as opposed to I6), I suspect that all other 6 cylinder BMWs will move in that direction as well.
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      09-28-2009, 09:53 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Windy View Post
The bottomline is that M is forgetting where it came from, and what it is supposed to be about.
I believe many enthusiasts will always love older models over new ones, and some models are a greater success than others. I also believe there are a great many ideas on just what "M" is supposed to be about. Thankfully though, BMW, as every other modern car maker, evolve. Without the tech and electronics, M car sales would probably drop so fast the M division would be history in no-time. Of course they have to create cars the masses want, building a radical M3 that 1 out of 100 potential M3 buyer could actually live with is a pretty poor business idea.

I'm new to this forum by the way; hello
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      09-29-2009, 03:07 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Murderface, you are most likely correct since BMW is known to be working on a turbo 4. This makes a lot of sense given that they already have turbo 6, 8, and 12. In fact there are even rumors of turbocharged 3 cylinders as well. If the M3 gets a V6 (as opposed to I6), I suspect that all other 6 cylinder BMWs will move in that direction as well.
Yeah, we're probably getting our information from the same places. The reason I suspect the 4 cylinder will supplant the current 6 cylinder in the next 3 Series is because from what I've read it sounds like the 4 cylinder will be twin turbocharged with output in the low to mid 200's range. I simply can't imagine BMW putting two different engines with such similar power outputs in the same car. If the turbo 4 gets better gas mileage (which is the whole reason for it's development in the first place), we would probably see a situation similar to what is happening in the A4 with 90% of the buyers opting for the fuel efficient 4.

That being said, Edmunds recently wrote that the new X1 will debut as a MY 2011 with an inline 6, presumably the one from the 128i and 328i. Maybe they are planning to give it a new engine a year or two after it's debut? Who knows.

As for the 3 cylinder, I'm not really sure what to say. This has got to be new territory for anything bigger than a kei car but if BMW can make it work, more power to them. Apparently the M1 that was just announced will be equipped with this sort of engine and assorted hybrid-electric trickery. I can't wait until that comes out, seems to me that it could be the dawn of a whole new generation of sportscars or the sort of failure that tarnishes a brand forever.

One last thing, the V6 in the M3 seems to be for purely engineering reasons. It doesn't sound like a V configuration is their first choice but it sounds like BMW engineers have good reasons for doing it - fitting two honking turbochargers on an inline 6 would shift the weight too far forward, so they say.

All this is purely speculation based on what I've read so take it with a grain of salt. Cheers

Last edited by Murderface; 09-29-2009 at 03:13 AM. Reason: Forgot about the 3 cylinder
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      09-30-2009, 10:33 AM   #60
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New M owner here

I am a new M owner, and yes, my M is a X5..... woohoo!

Sorry to all the "purists" out there, but I really did not go for the ricer approach (high revving to get the power), I like my flat torque curve.

It is all just a matter of opinion. Although, reading this thread, it is almost like having a discussion about religion.... Hopefully none of you try to run me off the road.
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      09-30-2009, 10:47 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Brutal Groceries View Post
I am a new M owner, and yes, my M is a X5..... woohoo!

Sorry to all the "purists" out there, but I really did not go for the ricer approach (high revving to get the power), I like my flat torque curve.

It is all just a matter of opinion. Although, reading this thread, it is almost like having a discussion about religion.... Hopefully none of you try to run me off the road.
You don't know how true that statement is. It's as if owning these cars somehow gives them the right to demand what direction future models must take and what is happening in the world bares has no importance when it comes to M cars, or should I say the cars that they purchase.

Very bizarre.
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      09-30-2009, 11:16 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skierman64 View Post
While I agree that the article wasn't inspiring, I'm not giving up on BMW or M based on some blah, blah, blah in print. I'll make my decision based on the product. I couldn't care less if the X cars have M models. It doesn't effect my M car in the least bit. It's still a great car.
It could be argued that it's going to affect the F10 M5. Quite heavily in fact I'd say. V8TT...
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      09-30-2009, 12:28 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutal Groceries View Post
Sorry to all the "purists" out there, but I really did not go for the ricer approach (high revving to get the power), I like my flat torque curve.
No need to apologize for your M - I'm sure its a great truck. All 5500 lbs of it.

However, you need to turn in your enthusiast badge for calling high revving motors the "ricer approach", lol. Sounds like you need to read up a little on modern Ferrari's, Lamborghini's, Astons, etc. You also might want to read up on what "rice" means (hint - GT-R stickers, fart cans, and slammed suspension should come to mind).
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      10-01-2009, 01:53 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkyg View Post
What a depressing read. The guy isnt an enthusiast at all, wtf is the writer talking about.

This board is full of enthusiasts.

The M Division is going no where with this guy. He is a slippery marketing monkey and clearly has no vision for the M Division. It is all smoke and mirrors marketing

I can't believe BMW pays this guys salary. Brutal

Well, another "marketing guy" is responsible for a lot of BMW's success in American and elswhere in the early/mid '70s, including giving them the push to create the M division to start with...
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      10-01-2009, 03:32 PM   #65
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Interesting article, but I don't like the direction they are taking. I hope to be proven wrong and pleasantly surprised.
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