Camber Settings for Track

[arter]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

If I'm reading all of this right, it goes like this...

OEM -1.1
w/o pins -1.7
Dinan -2.0

OEM about -1.0
w/o pins ( and std springs) -1.3 to 1.6
Dinan -0.7 to above ( so -2.0)
Ground Control adjusts from -1.5 to -4.0

[llis]

Since this thread is now part of the sticky Track FAQ, I thought I'd add a handy link to this thread where people are posting their alignment specs: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=367003

OEM about -1.0
w/o pins ( and std springs) -1.3 to 1.6
Dinan -0.7 to above ( so -2.0)
Ground Control adjusts from -1.5 to -4.0

It seems like many, if not most, people posting in these threads get Ground Control camber plates along with a new coilover setup, but GC will work with OEM springs. I think the max negative camber you can get depends on whether you're doing camber plates with the OEM suspension. I have GC close to maxed out at -3.0 on ZCP stock.

FWIW, I feel this one change (camber plates for more negative camber up front) made such a huge improvement in track cornering and virtually eliminating understeer, I recommend it for anyone doing more than a couple of track events. And it can be a quite affordable solution that pays for itself quickly by saving you $$$ in tires.

[quads]

Originally Posted by llis

Since this thread is now part of the sticky Track FAQ, I thought I'd add a handy link to this thread where people are posting their alignment specs: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=367003



It seems like many, if not most, people posting in these threads get Ground Control camber plates along with a new coilover setup, but GC will work with OEM springs. I think the max negative camber you can get depends on whether you're doing camber plates with the OEM suspension. I have GC close to maxed out at -3.0 on ZCP stock.

FWIW, I feel this one change (camber plates for more negative camber up front) made such a huge improvement in track cornering and virtually eliminating understeer, I recommend it for anyone doing more than a couple of track events. And it can be a quite affordable solution that pays for itself quickly by saving you $$$ in tires.

I also have the GC plates and have -3 up front and -2 in the rear and the car is a different animal. Instead of getting frustrated fighting the car in the corners it turns in almost telepathically.

I do have gripes about the GC springs. 1) they become unseated at full droop and 2) they started squeaking like a 30 year old couch. I've contacted gc but no specific remedy was offered. Other than that I'm happy with the setup.

[rzm3]

Originally Posted by 4sevens.com

I also have the GC plates and have -3 up front and -2 in the rear and the car is a different animal. Instead of getting frustrated fighting the car in the corners it turns in almost telepathically.

I do have gripes about the GC springs. 1) they become unseated at full droop and 2) they started squeaking like a 30 year old couch. I've contacted gc but no specific remedy was offered. Other than that I'm happy with the setup.

If you are talking about the front axle, squeaking may be coming from the sway bar end links. Lube them regularly

[mshahidz]

bump

[Groundpilot]

So whats the recommended - camber front/rear with addition of only c. plates for the track on stock EDC suspension?

[Porschefile]

Currently running -2.7 front -2.0 rear, with KW clubsports. I expect the front to wear too quickly, but if they wear fast I'll back the camber down in front. Toe is 1/32 out in front and 1/16 in in rear. The turn in feels fantastic.

[Porschefile]

Originally Posted by Groundpilot

So whats the recommended - camber front/rear for the track on stock EDC suspension?

Max out the front, and pull the pins out of the front struts, which allows for more. -1.5 front is a good goal for front, and won't wear your tires bad. -1.5 to -2.0 is good for rear.

[Groundpilot]

[QUOTE=Porschefile;12436999]Max out the front, and pull the pins out of the front struts, which allows for more. -1.5 front is a good goal for front, and won't wear your tires bad. -1.5 to -2.0 is good for rear.[/QUOT

To be honest i dont really care about tire wear on the street. I feel like stock susp. is very capable, but what would be ideal - camber for the track with C. Plates as only susp. mod?

[Porschefile]

I haven't seen a conclusive figure, but more than 1.5. Probably somewhere in the high 2's to low 3's.

[Groundpilot]

What do you think about -2.5 front, -2 rear for pilot sport cups?

[bigjae1976]

I think -3.0 is a tad much for my Dunlop Z1*. I think Porschefile is onto something. I plan to try -2.7ish to see what happens.

[Porschefile]

Originally Posted by Groundpilot

What do you think about -2.5 front, -2 rear for pilot sport cups?

Definitely in the right ballpark, try it and see.

[Car54]

Originally Posted by Groundpilot

What do you think about -2.5 front, -2 rear for pilot sport cups?

Read this: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...nd_Feeding.pdf

[TurboBimmer]

Originally Posted by Car54

Read this: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...nd_Feeding.pdf

Very interesting! Thanks for the link.

[admranger]

Resurrecting this thread.

Other than pulling the pins, has anyone swapped the hats like you could do on the E36 and e46's?

I have the pins pulled and clearly, that's not enough camber for most track time other than beginner level. On stock springs, I believe that the only other streetable option are the Dinan Plates. Are there other streetable options out there that use stock springs? I really do not want to go to coil overs, etc.

[dex37]

Originally Posted by admranger

Resurrecting this thread.

Other than pulling the pins, has anyone swapped the hats like you could do on the E36 and e46's?

I have the pins pulled and clearly, that's not enough camber for most track time other than beginner level. On stock springs, I believe that the only other streetable option are the Dinan Plates. Are there other streetable options out there that use stock springs? I really do not want to go to coil overs, etc.

Vorshlag and Ground Control have also camber plates for the stock perches.
Vorshlag seems to get better reviews though.

http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info...roducts_id=535

[66BM]

Originally Posted by dex37

Vorshlag and Ground Control have also camber plates for the stock perches.
Vorshlag seems to get better reviews though.

http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info...roducts_id=535

Haven't used the Vorslag plates, but I have used the GC plates on both my DE and Race car. I can say that I have been very happy with both.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by dex37

Vorshlag and Ground Control have also camber plates for the stock perches.
Vorshlag seems to get better reviews though.

http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info...roducts_id=535

I'm trying to avoid additional NVH and while the Vorshlag plates do accept the stock springs, I don't see how the non-isolated bearing design won't result in increased NVH. Yes, I know it's better handling, etc., etc., but I guess I'm just getting old...

[66BM]

Originally Posted by admranger

I'm trying to avoid additional NVH and while the Vorshlag plates do accept the stock springs, I don't see how the non-isolated bearing design won't result in increased NVH. Yes, I know it's better handling, etc., etc., but I guess I'm just getting old...

Never had any issues with the GC plates resulting in anything other than adjustability. If you are worried about Noise or anything else, you might not want to modify the stock suspension at all. You truly will not feel anything different than the handling when adjusting camber. Don't forget however, when adjusting camber, you are increasing toe, which will tear up tires on the street if the car is not aligned properly.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by 66BM

Never had any issues with the GC plates resulting in anything other than adjustability. If you are worried about Noise or anything else, you might not want to modify the stock suspension at all. You truly will not feel anything different than the handling when adjusting camber. Don't forget however, when adjusting camber, you are increasing toe, which will tear up tires on the street if the car is not aligned properly.

Thanks for the info.

I'm aware that putting more negative camber into the car will result in increased toe-out (but not everyone is, so your reply is excellent). Right now I'm running near zero toe up front -- on purpose!

My interest is in preserving the outside edge of my street tires when I do the odd track day now and again. I've run a couple of track days with the E90M3, but at the time I didn't care about the tires as I hated the PS2s and wanted to get my favorite street tire, the RE-11 on to the car. Now that I have the RE-11s on the car, I'd like to treat them better than the PS2s, hence the desire for a bit more negative camber up front.

I just don't do enough track anymore days to justify significant mods. Retired from club racing and the driving school instructing has been limited too. I have been through enough of the mod-cycles madness since I started autocrossing in 1991. The E90M3 is a heck of a commuter/daily driver out of the box so I'm happy with how it is now except for the need for slightly more camber for the track.

Looks like the Dinan plates are the ticket for me, unless I determine that the strut bolt circle and location are the same on the E90M3 (non-edc) as it is on the E36. I have a set of fixed camber plates for the E36 sitting in one of the drawers in my garage. Nothing better than resuse of a performance part vs. having to buy a new one!

Thanks again.

For those setting up their car with different tires, parts, whatever; let tire temps (take w/a probe pyrometer on a skidpad, if at all possible) guide your camber adjustments (for max performance).

[66BM]

Originally Posted by admranger

Thanks for the info.

I'm aware that putting more negative camber into the car will result in increased toe-out (but not everyone is, so your reply is excellent). Right now I'm running near zero toe up front -- on purpose!

My interest is in preserving the outside edge of my street tires when I do the odd track day now and again. I've run a couple of track days with the E90M3, but at the time I didn't care about the tires as I hated the PS2s and wanted to get my favorite street tire, the RE-11 on to the car. Now that I have the RE-11s on the car, I'd like to treat them better than the PS2s, hence the desire for a bit more negative camber up front.

I just don't do enough track anymore days to justify significant mods. Retired from club racing and the driving school instructing has been limited too. I have been through enough of the mod-cycles madness since I started autocrossing in 1991. The E90M3 is a heck of a commuter/daily driver out of the box so I'm happy with how it is now except for the need for slightly more camber for the track.

Looks like the Dinan plates are the ticket for me, unless I determine that the strut bolt circle and location are the same on the E90M3 (non-edc) as it is on the E36. I have a set of fixed camber plates for the E36 sitting in one of the drawers in my garage. Nothing better than resuse of a performance part vs. having to buy a new one!

Thanks again.

For those setting up their car with different tires, parts, whatever; let tire temps (take w/a probe pyrometer on a skidpad, if at all possible) guide your camber adjustments (for max performance).

I would set the camber for regular street driving and 0 toe, and then adjust it to "track" camber and check toe again. This will give you some baseline measurements, before and after adjustments. I run 0 toe, 3.5 camber front and 1/8'' toe in 2.5 camber rear with triple adjustable suspension on this car. Lowering the rear significantly increase handling as it defeats the "anti-squat / anti-camber" BMW builds into their suspension geomery. but, the car is also 3130 lbs. now.