ESS vs VF vs BPM tune

[dmk08]

I widdled it down to BPMsport or Evolve myself. I eventually went BPMsport because I felt I got better responses and service from 'The Tech' than any of the other companies. He put up with all my annoying questions and answered quickly.

Mike did the tune on my car himself. Great process and you have the fun of listening to him talk to himself.

As far as the tune itself I couldn't be happier. I'm making up excuses to drive.

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by VF-Engineering

Here are some of the features of the E9x M3 Hex Flash. Hope this info helps while you're deciding:
[IMG]http://ih.***************.com/fs072/1101314792484/img/57.jpg[/IMG]

This is interesting! I thought the ///3 had three engine response mappings/settings - normal, sports, and sports+.

My understanding is that the comfort setting applied to suspension with dynamic damper controls.

So I don't know how throttle response can be improved in comfort mode. It's not mentioned anywhere there is a comfort mode for throttle response as far as I know. Correct me if I am wrong.

[VF-Engineering]

Originally Posted by aussiem3

This is interesting! I thought the ///3 had three engine response mappings/settings - normal, sports, and sports+.

My understanding is that the comfort setting applied to suspension with dynamic damper controls.

So I don't know how throttle response can be improved in comfort mode. It's not mentioned anywhere there is a comfort mode for throttle response as far as I know. Correct me if I am wrong.

We modify the throttle response in Sport mode only as standard, but we can modify it in Comfort mode by request.

[kerkiraios00]

BPM all day!!

[Chriskm3]

It's very difficult to find one person who has been throug several tunes to give a real comparison. Each car dynos different. I am sure all tunes are very close alike. Except Dinan.
I have vf tuning and I had no issues to worry about. Car runs solid

[DopeM3]

Originally Posted by dmk08

I'm making up excuses to drive.

Had me rolling dude

[DopeM3]

[ortho281]

Originally Posted by and1313

i did pm him a couple days ago. still waiting on the reply. seems like he's been busy. I found the VF tune from Sonic MS but I've been having difficulty in finding real feedback from fellow users

I've got the VF tune approx 6 mts. It's my daily driver, but I also track about 1-2 times per month. I chose VF engineering because of their work with FI on several different cars, not just BMW's. I am very pleased with my tune and Nik Saran was very helpful in getting me the exact tune to meet my needs.

[PandaM3]

I've been searching around for different off the shelf tunes myself as well. In my last car the aggressive timing combined with 1 track day a month in hot socal weather from the off the shelf tune may have led to increased cylinder temps leading to an engine build and 2 blown head gaskets...

I don't want to make that expensive decision again which is part of the reason I got the M3 as it feels like it has more than sufficient power for the track.

However I do want to run some test pipes and take advantage of the associated power increase while just having the cel shut off cause I hate dash warning lights. Maybe a bump in RPM as well...

I don't want a tune that is made for high horsepower bragging rights, or for stoplight drag races... I want a tune that is still safe in hot socal weather track days that doesn't call for aggressive timing.

Additionally, all I am seeing in this thread are people saying they have no issues in their tune, and software tuners saying there tunes are safe and reliable. I thought that with my previous tune from a well known reliable company on my previous car.

Since now I am a bit jaded after expensive repair costs... I'd want to see logs that show timing/ timing pull/ or whatever info that can be shown to show the car runs well within it's parameters. Not just claims. Additionally these logs need to be done before and after heat soak to simulate a real racing environment.

So just CEL off for the test pipes and bump the redline is what I am after... along with logs that back it up

[Black Gold]

^^^^

It really is unbelievable that no one has posted data logs from these tunes.

There is plenty of data for the n54, but severely lacking in the case of the s65, even the FI kits

[M3takesNYC]

I don't want this to come across as being too negative but in the post above there are atleast 2 pretty big errors in the basic understanding of this car that would give me concern with going with a tune who does not know the following-

1-there is no comfort throttle mode! Its the second time VF in this thread commented. There is Normal and Sport for all cars. (If you have Idrive after 2010 I believe you can access I drive M-settings and there is a sport plus setting) So 3, none of which are comfort which is a suspension setting.

2-The rev limited above is listed at 8300 when it is of course 8400.

If I did not know VF was obviously a well established company here with their superchargers and such I would really hesitate to buy a tune from a company who did not even know the stock rev limit on this car. But since they do have a clearly good reputation I am sure it is just an oversight in their information so with that said I don't think I would hesitate to get a tune.

Personally would go for ESS or Mr Benvo based on what I have read

[happos2]

Popcorn smile didn't show up. Above is a substitue.

[urBan_dK]

Originally Posted by M3takesNYC

1-there is no comfort throttle mode! Its the second time VF in this thread commented. There is Normal and Sport for all cars. (If you have Idrive after 2010 I believe you can access I drive M-settings and there is a sport plus setting) So 3, none of which are comfort which is a suspension setting.

This is only partly true. There is no "comfort mode" throttle mapping per se, but there are three different throttle mappings. Normal, Sport, and Sport+. Sport+ is only available with M-mode enabled.

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by urBan_dK

This is only partly true. There is no "comfort mode" throttle mapping per se, but there are three different throttle mappings. Normal, Sport, and Sport+. Sport+ is only available with M-mode enabled.

Sport+ is crazzzzy from the factory. Like an on/off switch. I usually drive in normal

A lot of our customers tell us that sport+ is much more useable post tune.

[Superfly_M3]

Originally Posted by thekurgan

OP, I've not heard of the vf tune, but I've been comparing tunes myself and leaning more and more towards the BPM. From what Mike Benvo explains, he's not simply bouncing off the knock control, like some other tunes out there. I have had ESS tunes on previous M cars and loved it, but I primarily got it for the MSS54 and MSS70 DMEs as there wasn't a 91 octane map. PM Mike directly and he can explain quite a bit to you about his tune, abilities and the logic behind the software.

Ok, so I know this is an internet forum where a lot of flames and arguments can take place based on what people think. I'm beging to get curious about "these other tuners" and how "they" bounce off the knock controls and leave the safeties off, blah blah blah. To be honest, I've heard the same story from three different tuning companies - how they "don't do what other guys do". I realize that no names will be mentioned in respect who does this and I'm not asking to name the companies (unless someone wants to). But In my opinion this type of marketing hype has to end at some point. If a tuner is saying I'm not taking away safties, or bouncing of knock control like some other tuners, shouldn't there be some kind of proof about this? I mean c'mon, doesn't this seem a bit brainwashing to anyone? Why would a company that writes a tune take away the safeties to make a few more whp at the expense of safety. I don't think any reputable company will do this due to the fact that if they blow an engine on a otherwise stock car, shit would hit the fan - especially on this forum. In case you haven't noticed, there are a handful of companies that provide N/A tune for our cars: VF, ESS, BPM, Evolve, AA. So when someone says "those other tuners" who do you think they are referring to?

Thoughts?

[THE TECH]

Originally Posted by dmk08

I widdled it down to BPMsport or Evolve myself. I eventually went BPMsport because I felt I got better responses and service from 'The Tech' than any of the other companies. He put up with all my annoying questions and answered quickly.

Mike did the tune on my car himself. Great process and you have the fun of listening to him talk to himself.

As far as the tune itself I couldn't be happier. I'm making up excuses to drive.

Glad I could help!!

[thekurgan]

Originally Posted by Superfly_M3

Ok, so I know this is an internet forum where a lot of flames and arguments can take place based on what people think. I'm beging to get curious about "these other tuners" and how "they" bounce off the knock controls and leave the safeties off, blah blah blah. To be honest, I've heard the same story from three different tuning companies - how they "don't do what other guys do". I realize that no names will be mentioned in respect who does this and I'm not asking to name the companies (unless someone wants to). But In my opinion this type of marketing hype has to end at some point. If a tuner is saying I'm not taking away safties, or bouncing of knock control like some other tuners, shouldn't there be some kind of proof about this? I mean c'mon, doesn't this seem a bit brainwashing to anyone? Why would a company that writes a tune take away the safeties to make a few more whp at the expense of safety. I don't think any reputable company will do this due to the fact that if they blow an engine on a otherwise stock car, shit would hit the fan - especially on this forum. In case you haven't noticed, there are a handful of companies that provide N/A tune for our cars: VF, ESS, BPM, Evolve, AA. So when someone says "those other tuners" who do you think they are referring to?

Thoughts?

I read or have read the same postings you've read; no names mentioned, no data provided; as far as this forum, it's all we have to go on until some data is provided. If you want to assume it's one of those companies you mentioned, that's on you. I'm only reiterating what I've read here.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=781195

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by Superfly_M3

Wait a day or two.

I chose ESS tune and will be installing it tomorrow.
For objective comparisson I will dyno tomorrow for my baseline with the 240E software. I have a theory that the 240E by itself adds some whp/tq figures over the old software. That being said, tuners will upload the new 240E software along with their tune which can hide the effects of the 240E. Again only a theory.

I baselined back in December and got 339whp with an older software ... not sure what version, but the car came with it from the factory in Dec 2011. I will be going to the same dyno, and the weather coditions are similar at this point.

My car is stock with the exception of the AA green drop in filter. I will dyno with stock and AA filter 3 runs each to achieve my baseline. I also have the P3cars gauge which shows ignition timing (taken from OBD port). So I will video the timings along with the RPM an compare them to the dyno graphs.

After the base dyno, I will install the ESS tune (91 octane) and burn through a tank of gas for adaptations. I will then dyno again and post results including timing values.

This is as far as I can take this objective comparisson without the data logger. Stay tuned (no punn intended)

Looking forward to your review.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by Superfly_M3

Ok, so I know this is an internet forum where a lot of flames and arguments can take place based on what people think. I'm beging to get curious about "these other tuners" and how "they" bounce off the knock controls and leave the safeties off, blah blah blah. To be honest, I've heard the same story from three different tuning companies - how they "don't do what other guys do". I realize that no names will be mentioned in respect who does this and I'm not asking to name the companies (unless someone wants to). But In my opinion this type of marketing hype has to end at some point. If a tuner is saying I'm not taking away safties, or bouncing of knock control like some other tuners, shouldn't there be some kind of proof about this? I mean c'mon, doesn't this seem a bit brainwashing to anyone? Why would a company that writes a tune take away the safeties to make a few more whp at the expense of safety. I don't think any reputable company will do this due to the fact that if they blow an engine on a otherwise stock car, shit would hit the fan - especially on this forum. In case you haven't noticed, there are a handful of companies that provide N/A tune for our cars: VF, ESS, BPM, Evolve, AA. So when someone says "those other tuners" who do you think they are referring to?

Thoughts?

Like I said twice already in this thread, without data logs including timing, it's all unsubstantiated bs

Data logs or bust. They should be demanded IMO.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

Like I said twice already in this thread, without data logs including timing, it's all unsubstantiated bs

Data logs or bust. They should be demanded IMO.

I completely agree, along with dynos.

[M3takesNYC]

I have tried to start 2 data log threads, posting my logs and asking for others but nobody seems to care. I asked tuners to take logs as they dyno to post for us to give us more info but nobody does it. I don't think its going to happen.

In fairness though to all tuners, I know all the ones discussed on here-bpm, ess, AA, dinan and vf it looks like all do similar things and none of them and no tuners "bounce of knock sensors" anymore than the stock system already does!

The thing is the stock ECU essentially advances timing until knock happens and than pulls back if necessary. The ionic current system we have is so much more able to pick up early knock that even if they did use knock in some other way to detect and change things it would be totally different than knock in the 335 which I know there is a war about tunes that use the knock to ride or those that do not.

Given there is no boost, there is not much to ride the knock sensors with. Timing is so aggressive at 32 degrees for the upper powerband that most tuners add 1-2 degrees max and it takes 94 plus octane to hit the targets.

I think every tuner says they "don't do what other tuners do and keep it safe and reliable etc" But everyone says this. Who does not say safety and reliability is the most important thing? I know all the ones I listed above comment on that.

Bottom line is every tune from one of the known tuners is going to be about the same

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M3takesNYC

I have tried to start 2 data log threads, posting my logs and asking for others but nobody seems to care. I asked tuners to take logs as they dyno to post for us to give us more info but nobody does it. I don't think its going to happen.

In fairness though to all tuners, I know all the ones discussed on here-bpm, ess, AA, dinan and vf it looks like all do similar things and none of them and no tuners "bounce of knock sensors" anymore than the stock system already does!

The thing is the stock ECU essentially advances timing until knock happens and than pulls back if necessary. The ionic current system we have is so much more able to pick up early knock that even if they did use knock in some other way to detect and change things it would be totally different than knock in the 335 which I know there is a war about tunes that use the knock to ride or those that do not.

Given there is no boost, there is not much to ride the knock sensors with. Timing is so aggressive at 32 degrees for the upper powerband that most tuners add 1-2 degrees max and it takes 94 plus octane to hit the targets.

I think every tuner says they "don't do what other tuners do and keep it safe and reliable etc" But everyone says this. Who does not say safety and reliability is the most important thing? I know all the ones I listed above comment on that.

Bottom line is every tune from one of the known tuners is going to be about the same

Maybe...yes....maybe not
But soon there will be a chance...to see the difference (if there is one)
Check this out v v v
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...1#post13499852