"Transmission Failure, Proceed To Your Nearest BMW Service Center"

[lucid]

Originally Posted by ///Mantis

did anyone from 6MT come and make fun here yet??

And a forum member's car breaking down is funny because...?

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by lucid

And a forum member's car breaking down is funny because...?

nevermindddd

[enigma]

Originally Posted by Davo2003

Oneginee thanks for the post. I just talked to the dealer and surprise surprise...they found nothing wrong?!! I told them to drive it hard once around the dealer before giving it back to me. The shop foreman drove it himself "fastest BMW I have ever driven".

As to the "nothing wrong" comments front the dealer. It would not surprise me if there was some amount of "wear in / break in" needed on the clutch(s). If the system detected slip beyond what it expected if may have gone into safe mode. BMWs are notorious for various fallback when something unexpected occurs.

The cars also have multiple accelerometers that can alter the shifting program. If one of these was malfunctioning you could also see strange behavior when shifting in a turn.

Originally Posted by lucid

And a forum member's car breaking down is funny because...?

Its not. Notice the very different tone here versus the thread with the failed manual car. No comments like that over there. I'm just tired of the "6mt ftw" crap that seems to have become stylish here. There was zip, zero, nada need for that in this thread.

[ihyln]

For The Win

I'm thinking of getting a vanity plate but I don't want nerd lingo on a cool car.

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

WTF does FTW mean?

Fuck The What

urbandictionary is ur friend

[icemang17]

Very odd..... I figure there will be some "teething" issues with the DCT..just like there was (& still is) with the SMG...... I hope I don't experience any and if I do its corrected promptly.....

IF the DCT ends up being a total POS....then I could see myself going back to the 6MT..or away from the M3 altogether.....

Remember since you live in CA if the same part breaks 3 times while under warranty you can return the car under the "lemon" law!!

[southlight]

Originally Posted by enigma

Its not. Notice the very different tone here versus the thread with the failed manual car. No comments like that over there. I'm just tired of the "6mt ftw" crap that seems to have become stylish here. There was zip, zero, nada need for that in this thread.

You know what they say: It takes two to tango. Guess you like this tango much lately.

Back on topic: Sorry to hear that, Davo. Your last update raises hope it's not a big issue.



Best regards, south

[rvacha]

Originally Posted by Davo2003

Oneginee thanks for the post. I just talked to the dealer and surprise surprise...they found nothing wrong?!! ......They are saying it is a software issue at the worst but there are no sw upgrades released yet. ..... So far sounds like Oneginee's post about overprotection of the system by the onboard computer might be accurate.

I'm having a hard time believing this. While the software may not have behaved correctly, it would have nonetheless *thought* there was a fault and logged it. No fault codes? Seems rather suspicious to me.

Anyhow, I am very sorry to hear of your troubles and I hope they are resolved quickly

[milk242]

Originally Posted by rvacha

I'm having a hard time believing this. While the software may not have behaved correctly, it would have nonetheless *thought* there was a fault and logged it. No fault codes? Seems rather suspicious to me.

Anyhow, I am very sorry to hear of your troubles and I hope they are resolved quickly

I would have to agree, if it was the software trying to protect the engine, then fault codes would have to be logged right?

[swamp2]

What an unreal bunch of misinformation and speculation.

Originally Posted by oneginee

Sorry to hear that.
mmm let's see, with 1,3,5,7 on clutch1 and 2,4,6 on clutch 2 and you were in 2nd reving at 7K RPM changing into 3rd when the failure occured. That plus computers now tells you the gears supported by clutch1 (obviously) no longer available. That sounds like the dual clutch switching operation has been suspended by the computer.

No he "misshifted" from 2->1 instead of 2->3 due to a drastic change in acceleration. It is not clear if the 2->1 shift was aborted safely or completed. Furthermore there is nothting about the situation or the warning messages that indicate which clutch or gear set was affected. Speculation.

Originally Posted by oneginee

Maybe after they changed the tranny oil you should have given it a few more miles of gear shifting to clean off the deposit on the plates and allow that to get trapped in the oil filter. This assuming the lubrifiant is well circulated in the wet clutch system, again another thing that can go wrong. So after the 1200 miles service you should have waited a few more miles for that to self clean before going full throttle and shifting aggressively .

The manual claims that the clutch and transmission is both lubricated for life and actually broken in at only about 300 mi. There is no transmission fluid change at 1200 mi. The 1200 mi is a very conservative thing. BMW reccommends adding to the throttle, rpm and speeds gradually even after 1200 mi, but again I suspect this is VERY conservative. So again you are wrong.

Originally Posted by oneginee

I would say clutch1 toasted and needs a new clutch pack. Nothing dramatic but annoying enough.

Well it looks like BMW service techs have totally refuted this speculation. Wrong again.

Originally Posted by oneginee

Another thing that comes to my mind is if the m-dct was not sufficiently over-clutched by design using too weak of a clutch system (maybe to save on weight and match it with MT or to be able to fit it in a given ******* will lead to premature clutch failure as well. Let's hope not, that is the worst possible scenario.

Unreal. You really think the system was under-designed and has a weak clutch? Yeah sounds very probable . This tranny is torque rated for the new M5 and rated to 9k rpm. As well BMW insists in their literature that is is designed from the ground up for HARD track type use.

Originally Posted by oneginee

Regarding the comments on the cancer cure MT that was broken that's BS to break a manual you have to *intentionally* abuse it and you will know it (dropping the pedal when downshifting without 'matching' engine speeds for example). I don't think that fits the description of your incident (obviously since it's automated). In this case this is not the operator's fault.

There are many ways to ruin a transmission and it is much easier with a non-automated one. There are no details as to how this particular MT car failed but it is simply anecdotal evidence of a failure. That was my only point.

Originally Posted by oneginee

Again the advantages of MT especially meaningfull when considering clutch failure: full control, DRY system which means no discrete material deposit in the lubrifiant or forming of varnish and glaze on the clutch plates due to oil having unsufficient resistance to heat which in turn causes slipperage, heat and faillure.

There is no concerete engineering nor science based facts that indicate the superiority of one BMW implementation MT/dry clutch vs. M-DCT/wet clutch in terms of wear/lubrication/varnish etc. As well there is no evidence that M-DCT has insufficient resistance to heat.

Again in conclusion, fact after fact incorrect and speculation upon more speculation.

[Davo2003]

Yep, I will be asking these questions when I pick her up. It "almost" sounds like they filled the tranny up because they forgot during the break in service and erased all fault codes...I will write more after I pick her up...

[oneginee]

Onboard computer should have recorded the data. By acquiring data from your engine and driveshaft RPM the technician can determine how much clutch1 slipped. This data was probably sent to BMW.

a bit of rivalry is expected.. no foul play i think

[badfish]

Originally Posted by ihyln

For The Win

I'm thinking of getting a vanity plate but I don't want nerd lingo on a cool car.

Yeah, WTF?

[ihyln]

Pencilgeek, I'm a nerd at heart (I started off as a programmer in my early years). But there's a time and a place to be nerdy. On the road is not one of them however if I was going that route I'd be hardcore about it like you, not some WTF/FTW/LOL crap)

[monsta]

damn Davo this blows, hope she heals quickly....

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by oneginee

Onboard computer should have recorded the data. By acquiring data from your engine and driveshaft RPM the technician can determine how much clutch1 slipped. This data was probably sent to BMW.

a bit of rivalry is expected.. no foul play i think

Is your contention here that the car and specifically the M-DCT constantly (or in the event of any fault type) not only monitors but records various operating parameters. Come one guy, speculation, speculation. Sure I know the car and its electronics and ability to record and "communicate" with BMW is very advanced but if the car recorded to this level of detail it would require a huge internal hard drive. It is 100% speculation that the car records DCT clutch slippage.

[oneginee]

No you are wrong (and your arrogant self as usual I may add) . He downshifted to 1 accidentally after the car stalled as a result of trying to shift up to 3 and the odd clutch slipped which unexpectedly suppressed the torque delivered to the wheels which caused his hand to unvolontarily command a downshift.

if the wet clutch is lubricated for life then problems like this are even more of a concern for this transmission since wathever caused it will still be in the system. At best one might argue the clutch needs a more progressive break in. If it's a computer glitch it not better for it at least until BMW comes up with a firmware fix (sounds like Windows letting the debugging part up to first buyers).

Let's just give this a few month as some people will hopefully track the m-dct and we will talk again...

MT simply does not have lubrification, it specifically uses a ventilated clutch for improved heat dissipation. overheating from slippage due to oil varnish / glazing / deposits are specific wet clutch problems. Not saying this makes it inferior just that MT does not have to deal with these potential issues. Manufacturers handle this with special synthetic oils that have higher heat dissipation coefficients.

You should stop your dilletantism. *You* are incorrect.

** edit
memory storage does not need to store loads full of data only over a small time latency and that gets constantly overwritten unless there is a fault detected then it would save it for analysis. This is common in recent cars like the GT-R.

[mkoesel]

Ooh, I see another epic "swamp vs." thread in the making.

FWIW, my car has had a few minor hickups (slow start, misfires, electrical glitches) where the engine light came on, and I've taken it to the shop on a couple such occasions - and there were no codes thrown. So I can totally see how this tranny glitch might not get logged.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by oneginee

No you are wrong (and your arrogant self as usual I may add) . He downshifted to 1 accidentally after the car stalled as a result of trying to shift up to 3 and the odd clutch slipped which unexpectedly suppressed the torque delivered to the wheels which caused his hand to unvolontarily command a downshift.

if the wet clutch is lubricated for life then problems like this are even more of a concern for this transmission since wathever caused it will still be in the system. At best one might argue the clutch needs a more progressive break in. If it's a computer glitch it not better for it at least until BMW comes up with a firmware fix (sounds like Windows letting the debugging part up to first buyers).

Let's just give this a few month as some people will hopefully track the m-dct and we will talk again...

MT simply does not have lubrification, it specifically uses a ventilated clutch for improved heat dissipation. overheating from slippage due to oil varnish / glazing / deposits are specific wet clutch problems. Not saying this makes it inferior just that MT does not have to deal with these potential issues. Manufacturers handle this with special synthetic oils that have higher heat dissipation coefficients.

What you say above about memory is indeed true but you have ZERO evidence that the M3 engine/transmission control computers and sensors are in fact capable of this. As well the direct evidence from Davos dealer indicates this did not happen.

You should stop your dilletantism. *You* are incorrect.

** edit
memory storage does not need to store loads full of data only over a small time latency and that gets constantly overwritten unless there is a fault detected then it would save it for analysis. This is common in recent cars like the GT-R.

Anyway you slice it your posts are full of massive speculation, and incorrect statements, pure and simple. Can you please quote Davo when he said he was shifting to 3rd? The speculation simply continues with "whatever caused this is still in the transmission". How the heck can you say that - you did not examine the transmission, the fluid nor do you have any basis whatsoever to conclude contamination caused this? You have not replied to my other call outs on your specualtion nor places being flat out incorrect - classic avoidance. You may know a thing or two but you come off as a complete know it all, yet most is speculation and armchair analysis/drivel.

What you say above about memory and storage is indeed true. However, there is no evidence that the M3 ECU/TCU and sensors are capable of this kind of data capture and recording. As well Davo's dealer's analysis indicates that in this case this did not happen. I am not saying your thoughts are unreasonable, but they are still speculation.

dilletantism: OMG talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Get over yourself.

The unfortunate thing here is that neither Davo, his dealer, you nor I will ever really know with certainty exactly what happened. If you think you will you are even more naive than previsouly thought.

[the_stranger]

sorry to hear that. Hope you don't have to drive a loaner for a long time. It suck so much that every part has to come from germany.

[footie]

It's all speculation until they examine it but I will be surprised if it's anything more than a software problem.

I remember reading that the M5/6 has some transmission failures but can recall what actually was the problem with them and doubt if it's anything similar, especially as the new one is dual clutch and davo's was just run-in with not abuse as of yet.

I would hate for one of these things to give up the ghost outside of warranty as I reckon the best part of $10K might be required for a replacement. Best to take out extended warranties.

[Davo2003]

Well, mystery solved. It's not pretty and you aren't going to believe this shixt. After you read this I would appreciate a course of action from more experienced Bimmer owners. I am not a happy camper.

First, when I went to pick up my car that was "fine", "fastest BMW ever" etc. I immediately took it for a hard lap to be sure the problem was rectified. Unfortunately, it wasn't. I was able to replicate the problem in the exact manner I told them it occurred when I dropped it off. But now it has a strange humming coming from the tranny. Now I can tell you precisely what happened the first time and this time. My first post was inaccurate and was my best recollection and what I "thought" happened. Now everything makes sense since I duplicated the problem.

First thing. I didn't miss a shift or accidentally downshift, I thought I did because the tranny missed the shift, not me. I was so damn startled and in disbelief as to what could have possibly gone wrong that I blamed myself for a missed shift...but in reality, 2nd gear was GONE and the car free revved to redline when I changed from first to second, because there was no second. So I immediately switched to "D"...auto mode. This didn't help much either as gears 2,4,and 6 were history. So anyway, the first time and this time I limped to the BMW center. I didn't cut the car off this time and left the error code displayed on the iDrive screen. (Personally I think they probably thought I didn't know what I was talking about the first time since they seemed totally shocked to see "Transmission Failure" on the iDrive screen when I came right back). SO they take it to the back. They didn't tell me exactly what the error code was but something even more shocking. I am still shaking my head.

I didn't think I needed to tell them how to service the car, afterall, wasn't the official release date for MDCT May 1st??? Anyway...THEY CHANGED THE TRANSMISSION FLUID! The MDCT fluid is LIFETIME fluid and does not require a change! Apparently they filled it with regular manual transmission fluid and it is the wrong viscosity or something...hell, I don't know. Point is I and the service guys ran this car hard with the wrong tranny fluid in it. I am like WTF??

So, what would you do? Personally I want them to take the damn car back. It's humming now and seems slower to me. I don't know. I am beside myself now and not sure what to do.