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02-10-2014, 11:58 AM | #375 | |
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You got me wrong if you think i'm angry, I'm having fun here seeing GM trying so hard with the same old platform over and over. Grandpa's condo association are big supporters of vettes Last edited by V8FunNaturally; 02-10-2014 at 02:20 PM.. |
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02-10-2014, 03:12 PM | #376 |
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02-10-2014, 05:52 PM | #377 | |
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Power (peak) to weight is the single most predictive quantity in vehicle performance. And yes, obviously if you know the entire torque curve you know the entire power curve, no debate there. But power is the most significant factor. Yes, in a given engine the quantities are related but power allows you to not have to worry about knowing the gear ratios. Even though it would be darn difficult or impossible to double an engines peak torque and leave its power unaltered, if it could be done the vehicle would accelerate nearly identically. There is no argument here otherwise, fact. So to keep it simple we can know power or the entire torque curve and all gear ratios. Which is simpler? Also while we are on facts until you can explain and reconcile the following facts about vehicle performance you clearly don't understand power vs. torque. 1. At any given speed, the vehicle that can develop the most power (to weight) will out accelerate the other vehicle. This follows from rearranging the fundamental definition of power to be: a = P/(m*v) (acceleration is power divided by mass x velocity, of course in SI units, not US common units). Also power is net power minus losses, of course, drivetrain, aero and tires, predominantly. One simply can not make such a statement about torque. Why, again it is mostly meaningless. 2. Peak acceleration in any given gear is at the rpm of peak torque. #1 and #2 seem contradictory but aren't. Put some more thought into to. Please save yourself some additional "foot in mouth" and read up, there are a plethora of discussions and good posts here on this topic. I can barely count the number of folks who have posted the same/similar as you have and had only later to have to seriously adjust their claims.
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02-10-2014, 06:17 PM | #378 |
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Probably why nasa puts cars on equal terms by placing you according to power to weight ratio, with a few other things thrown in like aero and tire choice.
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02-10-2014, 07:56 PM | #379 | ||||
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To address your hypothetical example, if you double the engine's torque output while keeping power the same, then the engine's rotational speed MUST be cut in half so the equation balances out and energy is conserved. Then that leaves us with two options. If total gear ratios remain the same, then torque at the wheels will be doubled, and the vehicle will accelerate twice as fast, while traveling at half the speed. If, however, you also half the gear ratio, then you get half the torque magnification going through the gearbox and diff. The resultant torque at the wheels remain the same and the vehicle maintains the same acceleration at the same speed. See my point? In both situations the net power is the same, but you end up with an inversely proportional relationship between acceleration and speed. What that means is that power alone cannot be used to predict acceleration without knowing the speed of the car (which is nothing more than a function of engine speed and gear ratios). Quote:
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A certain Bimmer weighs 1600 kg and produces roughly 400 hp at 8000 rpm. You don't know the gear ratios. What is its acceleration at 20 km/h? According to you, torque and gear ratios are unnecessary if you know peak power output. So go ahead and solve it. |
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02-10-2014, 09:52 PM | #380 |
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I saw a C7 tonight up close and personal for the first time. Wow... it looks amazing in person. Very small... much smaller than they look in pictures and amazing lines. Very aggressive stance. However, what struck me the most was the interior. Fantastic fit/finish and amazing detail and material. Without exaggerating, the interior was absolutely on par with either my C63 or M3 while being far more driver centric.
It felt like you were in a cockpit. The seats hugged you and are actually quite small. The dash surrounded you and was very driver focused. The steering wheel was firm and thick. It was a great environment for a sports car. With the performance of the Z06 and the massive (and I mean massive) improvements on interior quality, design and fit/finish, this car will be absolutely stunning. |
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02-10-2014, 10:31 PM | #381 |
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^^ he said firm and thick.
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02-10-2014, 11:00 PM | #383 |
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02-10-2014, 11:13 PM | #386 | |
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Drives: 2012 e92 M3 DCT ZCP
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02-10-2014, 11:16 PM | #389 | |
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02-10-2014, 11:24 PM | #390 |
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2LT with GT seats. GT seats were fantastic... can only imagine how nice the competition seats will be.
Cyber gray... kind of a boring color but still looked great. Hopefully soon. It's on a train coming to me but it is way too slow IMO. My bet is early next week. This is the car on its way... not a Z06 but it will be fun for a couple of years before a Z06 follows it Last edited by gthal; 02-10-2014 at 11:29 PM.. |
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02-10-2014, 11:29 PM | #391 | |
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02-10-2014, 11:29 PM | #392 |
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I saw c7 driving by the other day and it looked nice. Maybe this gen will erase the grandpa stigma that comes with them
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02-11-2014, 02:01 AM | #394 | |||||||
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Ugh, I really can't believe I am getting sucked into the nonsense again...
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Again, since you submit otherwise, the onus is entirely on you to prove otherwise. Quote:
1. Peak power correlates quite well with average power and average power is a better prediction than peak power. 2. When strung out to get maximum performance cars spend a considerable amount of the operating time producing a power reasonably close to peak power. That's why we shift... Good, you are coming along... Quote:
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Guess what, performance when doing so is very minorly altered. Now leave peak torque the same and double the peak power (implies a redline and gearing changes). Performance is radically improved. Quote:
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I suppose all jet engine, rocket engine, marine engine, electric engine and all the rest focusing their specification on POWER is also a really big case for the importance of torque... It's pretty obvious to me that the degrees often mean jack shit in real life and it's you who can't appropriately apply physical concepts to the real world. So just drop the ad hominem crap, it is not helping your case. Quote:
Last but not least have a look at "On the Physics of Drag Racing". American Journal of Physics, Volume 41 (3) – Mar 1, 1973. It should be quite enlightenting on the importance of power over torque even for someone with the fundamentals as screwy as you have them. The "funny" thing is that torque isn't even mentioned in the equations!
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02-11-2014, 08:36 AM | #395 |
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I'm betting on 7k tops considering the ZR1 only went up to 6500, it is getting a roots style blower right?
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02-11-2014, 09:51 AM | #396 | |
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Stop. Just stop. He doesn't get it. He may never get it. Why bother? He's also the kind of guy who feels the need to demonstrate that he knows the difference between mass and weight. (!) My dad once told me to never get into an argument with an idiot, because people may not be able to tell the difference. Good advice. Take it. Bruce |
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