E90 M3 1577 Miles - Engine Malfunction

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by FlyingDutchman

Thanks for asking. Unfortunately they still have no idea what the issue is. Again, because of this being such a new product they tell me they are being very cautious and constantly checking-in with senior technicians at BMW. I was told to expect more information tomorrow.

I’m becoming a bit discouraged that after having my car for more than 48 hours they still do not know what is wrong - let alone can tell me when I’ll have my car back. I just hope it runs just as well and as fast as it did before this incident once returned. In the meantime, I’ll continue being patient and try to enjoy the X3 loaner they gave me to use.....

that should not discourage you. 48 hours is no time. you are the first to experience this, there is probably a lot of communication between here and germany within engineering teams and technicians and what not. who knows they might fly people here to take a look. dont worry about it man, it'll be sorted out

Originally Posted by Dascamel

Hang in there, at least they aren't rushing anything.

+1

[Race_Doc11]

Sorry to hear...if the dealer comes back to you and suggest changing the engine make sure you fight for a new car...1200 miles it should not give you such a problem that's why we buy BMWs ....right

Originally Posted by FlyingDutchman

Here is an update as of Noon Eastern Time today:

The dealer is waiting for a call back from someone they called “the Regional Technical Manager”. Apparently they don’t know what’s wrong and the information they have is somewhat conflicting. Apparently one bank of cylinders is reporting normal operation and the other is reporting all “zeros” - whatever that means.

They assured me everything is covered under warranty and promised to call me once they heard from the senior resource at BMW they mentioned.

Again, my dealer has been very nice to deal with but it appears that my issue may be well beyond bad fuel or a failed fuel pump. The current M3 is still a new product for BMW NA and they appear to have little documented technical data to draw upon – hence the appeal to a higher authority. I just hope the car comes back soon and runs as well and strong as it did before this incident.

[FlyingDutchman]

Update for those interested:
Yesterday the dealer called to say that they felt the issue was with the injectors. They pulled a new M3 they had on hand into the service area and ran the same diagnostics against it and then compared them to the results from my car. The injectors seemed to have different results so they then ordered new injectors that arrived to this morning to see if this would fix the issue.

It did not fix the issue so now they think it is a problem with compression on two of the cylinders. I was told I would get another update on Monday.

In the meantime, I continue to drive my BMW X3 loaner……

[mtsound]

I really feel your pain. I think you are more patient than I would ever be. My e90 M3 has just 900 miles, and hearing these kinds of stories, I am getting worried a little. Hope they figure out what the problem is.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by FlyingDutchman

In the meantime, I continue to drive my BMW X3 loaner……

Sorry to hear about your car. Which dealership are you at in Michigan?

If they take too long, who knows, it could be worth looking into the lemon law (I think it has to spend 30 days in the shop though). Also, one other person on here supposedly got a new car because his engine died and they wanted to replace just the engine. While we have not heard anything official from him, it would be worth it to keep an eye out for a post from him in case you end up being in the same boat.

[knifegun]

Please keep us posted. I hope it is a simple fix.

[Voltigeur]

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Totally sucks out loud. We feel your pain. It seems like your dealer is trying to be diligent and careful. But as you state these cars are new to BMW NA and the engines are damn complex. Definitely needs input from Deutschland boffins.

Good luck mate!

[440hpe46]

Good luck...

Man I'm not sure about the exact component parts, but I get the same message (half power) sometimes when my 335 falls below a 1/4 tank...

The dealer said it was most likely the new Bosch HPFP but they said to never let it fall below 1/4 for any reason...

I'm still am in amazement...

[Dascamel]

Originally Posted by 440hpe46

Good luck...

Man I'm not sure about the exact component parts, but I get the same message (half power) sometimes when my 335 falls below a 1/4 tank...

The dealer said it was most likely the new Bosch HPFP but they said to never let it fall below 1/4 for any reason...

I'm still am in amazement...

That sounds like complete BS. Take it to another dealer if it occurs again.

[FlyingDutchman]

Update:
The issue may be a bent exhaust valve on one of the cylinders – they are working with BMW to determine if this was a manufacturer defect (they sent the control unit somewhere). The dealer tells me they typically see this when a car has a compression issue related to an over-rev from a missed shift (for example - going from 4th gear to 3rd by mistake at high revs rather than to 5th).

I cannot recall ever doing something like that and I’m the only one who has driven the vehicle. I’m getting a little concerned this is going to turn into a non-warranty repair and a case of my word against theirs….

Meanwhile, I soldier on in the X3 loaner…..

[Big Windy]

Originally Posted by FlyingDutchman

Update:
The issue may be a bent exhaust valve on one of the cylinders – they are working with BMW to determine if this was a manufacturer defect (they sent the control unit somewhere). The dealer tells me they typically see this when a car has a compression issue related to an over-rev from a missed shift (for example - going from 4th gear to 3rd by mistake at high revs rather than to 5th).

I cannot recall ever doing something like that and I’m the only one who has driven the vehicle. I’m getting a little concerned this is going to turn into a non-warranty repair and a case of my word against theirs….

Meanwhile, I soldier on in the X3 loaner…..

Damn, that isn't the best news...but if they can't prove that it was your fault you still have some ground to stand on. Just because they "typically" see this in the case of a missed shift doesn't mean that this is the cause in your situation.

[lucid]

One would think an over-rev of that nature would be somehow recorded in the ECU?

At any rate, they can't pin this on you. They would need to have evidence, and they don't.

[rvacha]

Originally Posted by lucid

At any rate, they can't pin this on you. They would need to have evidence, and they don't.

+1 Over-reving isn't the only way to bend a valve

[12:03]

Agreed, there is NO way they could pin this on you without a computer showing an overrev.

[GT3 Tim]

and that computer will show it, if it was there. So, hopefully you have not overreved it and then they will have to just fix it, and not blame you!

Keep us posted...

FYI -- I once did a money shift and bent up a couple exhaust valves. :-) I figured that was a sign to install a shrick cam and some Raceware head studs, so I did. lol

[FlyingDutchman]

Originally Posted by GT3 Tim

and that computer will show it, if it was there. So, hopefully you have not overreved it and then they will have to just fix it, and not blame you!

Keep us posted...

FYI -- I once did a money shift and bent up a couple exhaust valves. :-) I figured that was a sign to install a shrick cam and some Raceware head studs, so I did. lol

Question - I still have no new word from the dealer, but how can an engine with a rev-limiter be overreved? Wouldn't it just bounce off the rev limiter?

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by FlyingDutchman

Question - I still have no new word from the dealer, but how can an engine with a rev-limiter be overreved? Wouldn't it just bounce off the rev limiter?

Mechanical overrev. If you downshift to too low a gear while moving too fast, the wheels will force the engine to spin faster than it is designed. And then real bad things can happen. This is the "money shift" referred to above.

[GT3 Tim]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Mechanical overrev. If you downshift to too low a gear while moving too fast, the wheels will force the engine to spin faster than it is designed. And then real bad things can happen. This is the "money shift" referred to above.

To further explain, just because I am bored....

Lets say 3rd gear will take you to 100mph MAX (just for sake of example).

You are in 4th gear doing 120, you shift for 5th, but hit 3rd instead. Being as redline in 3rd is 100mph, and you are now in 3rd doing 120, the engine rpms will be beyond redline (as soon as you release the clultch!). This is mechanical overrev. The rev limiter will do nothing to help you in this instance. You will bend valves and potentially break a rod(s), hole the block, crack pistons (with nice chunks of valve in them!), and other horrible things!

That is what can happen with mechanical overrev. The mildest case of meachanical overrev will result in a couple bent valves. Being as your dealer suspects a bent vavle or two, this is why they are thinking it was a case of mechanical overrev.

[FlyingDutchman]

Originally Posted by GT3 Tim

To further explain, just because I am bored....

Lets say 3rd gear will take you to 100mph MAX (just for sake of example).

You are in 4th gear doing 120, you shift for 5th, but hit 3rd instead. Being as redline in 3rd is 100mph, and you are now in 3rd doing 120, the engine rpms will be beyond redline (as soon as you release the clultch!). This is mechanical overrev. The rev limiter will do nothing to help you in this instance. You will bend valves and potentially break a rod(s), hole the block, crack pistons (with nice chunks of valve in them!), and other horrible things!

That is what can happen with mechanical overrev. The mildest case of meachanical overrev will result in a couple bent valves. Being as your dealer suspects a bent vavle or two, this is why they are thinking it was a case of mechanical overrev.

Thanks. They are now saying that it appears to be just broken valve spring. I should know more tomorrow.

[GT3 Tim]

Originally Posted by FlyingDutchman

Thanks. They are now saying that it appears to be just broken valve spring. I should know more tomorrow.

Wow...strange. I hope this is isolated! Shit... if they find out it is a manufacturing defect with a run of springs (eg: springs made from xx -xx by xx company) then we would be looking at possibly a recall or TSB on it...to fix it, the head(s) will have to come off. Oh boy..I hope it is an isolated incident!

Keep us posted!

[jm1234]

Originally Posted by FlyingDutchman

Update:
The issue may be a bent exhaust valve on one of the cylinders – they are working with BMW to determine if this was a manufacturer defect (they sent the control unit somewhere). The dealer tells me they typically see this when a car has a compression issue related to an over-rev from a missed shift (for example - going from 4th gear to 3rd by mistake at high revs rather than to 5th).

I love these dealer quotes! It took them seven days to diagnose the problem but when they do they can tell you within seconds what "typically" causes it. Seriously, if there was anything typical about it, why did it take seven days to diagnose?

The icing is that the "typical" cause is something the customer did.

Wouldn't a broken valve spring "typically" cause the problem too?

[rvacha]

Originally Posted by jm1234

Wouldn't a broken valve spring "typically" cause the problem too?

YEP! In theory so would be a malfunctioning VANOS unit, a binding valve guide, or oil starvation.