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03-18-2010, 07:32 AM | #45 | |
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In fact, the burn rate for Methanol is 2.5x faster. Methanol also burns at lower temperature than gasoline.(43 deg F) If you use methanol as a fuel in any spark ignition engine, it can offer an increased thermal efficiency and increased power output (compared to unleaded gasoline) due to its high octane rating (114), and high heat of vaporisation. However, due to it's low energy content of 19.7 MJ/kg and stoichiometric air/fuel ratio of 6.42:1, that means your fuel consumption (by volume or mass) will be much higher than hydrocarbon fuels. The extra water produced by methanol also makes the incoming air charge rather 'wet', and that creates a formic acidic by-product during combustion. Formic acid accelerates the wearing of valves, valve seats, the aluminum cylinder head, and the aluminum engine block. (which is exactly what the S65 engine is made of) Methanol is one of the most toxic/corrosive substances on the Earth. I have no idea why some of you guys would ever put this harsh chemical into your engine ON PURPOSE. Methanol contains a ton of soluble and insoluble contaminants. These soluble contaminants, (halide ions such as chloride ions), have a large effect on the corrosivity of alcohol based fuels like Methanol. Halide ions increase corrosion in two ways: a) they chemically attack passivating oxide films on several metals (especially aluminum) causing pitting corrosion. and b) they increase the electrical conductivity of the fuel. The increased electrical conductivity promotes electric, galvanic, and ordinary corrosion in the fuel system. Soluble contaminants, such as aluminum hydroxide (a product of corrosion by halide ions), will clog up a modern fuel system over time. Methanol is also hygroscopic, which means it will absorb water vapor directly from the atmosphere. (like brake fluid does) This causes a natural in consistently in the quality of Methanol. Absorbed water dilutes the fuel value of methanol (although, it may still help suppress engine knock), it is not smart to tune an internal combustion gasoline engine on Methanol for use as an additional fuel source. The half-life of Methanol that has been exposed to air is very short. (a few weeks) If the water/meth solution sits up for too long, it may cause a phase separation of methanol, where the chemical actually breaks down. There are no OEM applications of Methanol (or water/meth) injection on a production car by any automobile manufacturer. Every supercharged or turbocharged super car in existence (from the Corvette ZR1 to the Bugatti Veyron) manages to run just fine on 91 octane unleaded gasoline without fear of detonation.
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03-18-2010, 07:51 AM | #46 |
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Le mans blue, Your PM storage is full. Maybe you keep it like this on purpose because you don't like PM's...
I had some automotive questions for you.Do you accept to answer ?? |
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03-18-2010, 08:04 AM | #47 |
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03-18-2010, 08:10 AM | #48 |
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Since ions are electrically charged particles, I would think so.
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03-18-2010, 10:18 AM | #49 | ||
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If you look at Sal's claims that Meth WILL blow the motor, they are fundamentally flawed, even if his claims how Meth affects ion-flow are true, do you know the knock suppressant characteristics of Meth? I know you do because you ran 14psi with it on your S54 with 91. They are as high as C16 race fuel, now unless the ion-flow KD completely turned off and then somehow added TONS of timing or made the ECU go totally lean, apparantly 12.6 is okay at redline with that boost level on 91 octane, then that motor is not gonna blow from the Meth, if anything it will protect it, that is the ONLY question here, we don't need an entire novel about why you don't need Meth if the hardware is immaculate, we get that, this is a completely different discussion. How in the world would this engine knock from too much timing and then blow up if it has such a high octane suppressant? Yes you read it wrong Stephan, according to him it "WILL" happen, hence the reaction you saw here, I'm surprised that surprised you, lol. Quote:
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03-18-2010, 10:22 AM | #50 |
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Great thread. I fully agree that Methanol would not be a feasible tuning solution for the S65. People might argue that the Water/Meth mixture will not be that aggressive and that cylinder-heads, valves, etc. will be clean on an engine where Meth ist used. They are - due to oxidation.
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03-18-2010, 10:25 AM | #51 | |
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03-18-2010, 11:21 AM | #52 | |
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I agree as well about the failure scenario, that doesn't affect my situation as my car is not tuned aggressively for Water/Meth. I am not a big fan of running pure Meth, but many have done it successfully, and some not so much do to many of the reasons pointed out in this thread.
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03-18-2010, 11:26 AM | #53 |
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I'm not surprised you would take that position.
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03-18-2010, 12:07 PM | #54 | |
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No one is keeping the owner a secret, basically everyone knows my car is at Gintani but they have no idea what I am doing there... Well, most don't.
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03-18-2010, 12:46 PM | #55 |
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Just so everybody knows, I deleted some comments. We told you before that all the drama some like to cause has to be dropped. This thread is about the possible affection of meth infection to the S65, nothing less, nothing more!
This thread also is interesting and does have potential to provide useful information for many members, regardless their personal preference. It's not interesting enough to be kept open despite ongoing arguments, though. So, consider this the very last warning to drop this nonsense or the thread's gone. We'll have another look at some posts and then decide whether they're infractionable or not. Let me also add that some posts got deleted just because they quoted inappropriate comments, so I'd like to thank these members for understanding! Best regards, south
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03-18-2010, 12:58 PM | #56 |
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What gas does the factory tune on? Different gases burn differently, 91, 93, different gas pumps have different burn ratings etc just like meth has a different burn rating... Will this cause the motor to blow?
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03-18-2010, 01:05 PM | #57 |
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In EU standard is 93 to provide full power, 91 minimum. If you want to apply Meth it will not be the problem when you have an appropriate ECU tune ( being Meth failsafe ). Whether you should use Meth in general due to side-effects would be worth to be further discussed, IMO.
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03-18-2010, 01:41 PM | #58 |
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Methanol can be used with FI if it is properly tuned for it. Anyone who runs it to aid in adding boost without proper tuning is asking for trouble. Safety features need to be applied to keep the motor safe anytime you run high psi and use a chemical additive injected into the motor for safety. Meth is also corrosive and will harm a motor over time if exposed to enough of it.
The questions customers should ask are what exactly is there to gain by running meth ? If you are going to consider it as an option then you should review the performance difference with and without and decide for yourself if the added risks are worth it. It should also be known what the vendor has done to keep the motor safe incase the meth system fails to perform properly. |
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03-18-2010, 01:45 PM | #59 | |
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03-18-2010, 01:54 PM | #61 |
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Those are questions that need to be answered. How many miles do you plan on keeping the car? How quickly will the Meth cause corrosion? How much extra power will it make? Am I willing to take the risk?
Doing any mod on an engine whether it's FI, Meth, or even an ECU tune, should cause an owner to at least access the risks and rewards of that modification.
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03-18-2010, 02:10 PM | #62 |
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I plan on keeping the car till the wheels fall off i mean why not i payed for it...but if i was keeping the car till around 50,000 sure i could go crazy with mods good or bad and whoever buys my car will be a very unhappy person if they decide to keep the car till lets say 100,000 miles....none the less it still corrodes slowly but surely...but this is IF i decided to get supercharged using meth today (~13,000 miles right now) and if my motor even lasted till 50,000 miles
I think this is THE question that needs to be answered! Also what effect the meth had on the part/parts that caused those motors to blow |
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03-18-2010, 02:12 PM | #63 |
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It really comes down to personal preference. Some people are willing to take the "risk" of running meth because they want the most power possible. Obviously adding more boost or running meth in the long term will put more stress on engine internals. If you care about your engines longevity, putting a S/C on in the first place is probably not the best idea, until we have independent reliability updates of these kits running 100k+ miles with no issues.
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03-18-2010, 02:14 PM | #64 | |
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03-18-2010, 02:26 PM | #65 |
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You are on the right track. I'm glad we have people like you on the board.
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03-18-2010, 02:27 PM | #66 |
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Its not like the meth is going to be sitting in your motor and it also depends on how much you spray. The motor burns up gas very quickly (especially a high performance motor), it will also use up the meth quite quickly.
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