M3 or 1M??

[dmw16]

I am a 135i owner and love the car. Now that I've seen the 1M in the flesh I love that too.

However, if for about the same price I was given a choice between a new 1M and a used M3 the choice is easy for me - the M3. There a bunch of reasons for this:

1. I've always loved the M3. I love the look of it along with the high-rev'ing NA motor. I had an S2000 a few years back and loved it for the same reason. High RPM NA motors are something very special.

2. From a practical standpoint the M3 would fit my life moving forward. I am not going to sell my 135i at this point, but down the road I will need more space.

3. A used car is a much better value to me. This may seem like a boring reason, but I'd rather have a still-under-warranty used car over a new one. Let someone else take the depreciation hit

Both cars are (or will be) fantastic. Claiming that the 1M isn't a real M car is really just silly. While I love the NA history of M motors, there is more to an M car than the engine. The brakes, suspension, etc are what make a up a lot of the driving experience. It's those things that set a BMW apart from the rest of the pack and then further sets an M car apart from other BMW's.

As I'm typing this I'm thinking I may be talking myself into a used M3...damn

[itf joegun]

Originally Posted by dmw16

As I'm typing this I'm thinking I may be talking myself into a used M3...damn

Won't be the biggest fault you can make as an 135i owner...

[dmw16]

Originally Posted by itf joegun

Won't be the biggest fault you can make as an 135i owner...

No doubt, but since my wife has last gotten a new car I've been thru 2 cars and 2 motorcycles. I think this time if I get another car before here she'll either divorce me or kill me in my sleep.

[itf joegun]

Originally Posted by dmw16

No doubt, but since my wife has last gotten a new car I've been thru 2 cars and 2 motorcycles. I think this time if I get another car before here she'll either divorce me or kill me in my sleep.

Yes, I know what you mean, but the chance to getting murdered or divorced is significantly lower if the next one is a M3 instead of an 1M.

To getting back to topic: Another important plus for the M3!

[DaFish]

Originally Posted by wrh3

The $7k 1M to $18k M3 difference might not be an apples to apples comparison- I wonder how much of that can be attributed to using an off the shelf motor vs an M specific motor? Does anyone know what an N54 crate motor goes for vs an S65?

That said, I would pay the $7k premium for the 1M to get the M LSD,enhanced OE turbos/programming, and M specific wheels/bodywork if I was planning to buy a 135i to modify, mods do add up.

your comments I think are spot on.

$7k premium for these enhancements is very, very good.
1M fixes the following with the 135/335 platform:

(I am estimating pricing - just ignor them if they are not 100% correct - bottom line is we couldn't upgrade a stock 135/335 for 7k)
1) larger rims and tires than the 135/335 - we needed the larger fender flares to house larger front tires - this puts the ZCP rims and tires on the 1M (7 to 10k)
2) Larger intercooler (1.5k)
3) more oil cooling (1.5k)
4) better brakes (3 to 7k - brembos....)
5) M3 front control arms (more neg camber) - and I bet it has better rear control arm bushings too. (.5k)
6) I think it has the M3 subframe bushings (2k)
7) and the most important - the LSD (not sure if it has the M clutch LSD - probably - this is a the best thing thing....) (at least 2k)
8) maybe the m3 Sways or at least better balanced sways (1k)

I personally think that the only reason they called it the M was because they put the LSD in and they won't offer the LSD in any other cars..... which sucks. BMW should offer the LSD as an option like other manufacturers do.

I have priced out these upgrades to my 335 and the price is like 20k (rims and tires are very expensive). (I am also in Canada and we pay more).

IF I was to get the 1M, I would take the 335is motor that they put in the 1M and put the dinan software or another tune on it and bump the power up past the ridiculously low power increase they gave it... the motor can handle at least the Dinan tune - especially with the additional cooling.

I have the M3 control arms, Dinan suspension and I can tell you the steering is so much better... M3 good.

With the M3 LSD, this car would get the power down - my Dinan 335 just absolutely sucks for power delivery.....

Now for the comparison.... I would compare the 1M to a modded 335 - NOT the M3 for the following reasons:

1) no M dynamic - the 1M M button just changes throttle response I think.... so f'n what.... M Dynamic and the computer manages traction - missing....
2) the sound.... nothing beats it.
3) NA motor - 8300 red line.... power to 8500 (with tune)....
4) interior... seats, trim... the M3 is just way nicer....
5) it is a race car for the street - and it is so nice looking....
6) I think it is missing the adjustable shocks.... that sucks.

Now the 1M
1) a lot of features for 7k premium.... totally cool
2) I personally don't like the look, 3 series is just beautiful, 1 - not so.... but it looks better than a stock 1 series for sure.
3) BMW will sell tons of these.... the "M" letter will sell this thing.... it was a brilliant move, same with the IS line....
4) MUCH better mileage.

The problem is the M3 is so expensive. In Canada I would have had to give my 08 Dinan 335 with 50,000 KMS and $57,000 to get into a M3. That is too much. The 1M will fit for a lot of people. That said... M3 all the way for me.... and not a TT one.....

[HERR FSTIR]

Which car is better depends on your priorities. If you are looking for the car with the best power plant, then it is hard not to go with the M3 and it's mellifluous V8. However, if you are more interested in handling and driving dynamics, then the 1M is arguably the better choice. Specifically, the short wheelbase (roughly that of of the e36 M3) with a track similar to the e92 is truly a compelling reason to go with the 1M. Further, the weight differential, although not huge, will add to the driving experience.

Where I live I cannot hope to make great use of the M3's top end where the motor really comes alive. A torquey inline six with low end grunt is much more practical and provides more opportunities for daily driving fun. Now if I lived next to the Ring or some other track, then I might very well opt for the V8.

Aesthetics wise, I think the two cars have different design sensibilities. The M3 is aggressive but sleek. It functions both as a sporting and sophisticated design.

On the other hand, the 1M is aggressive but in a brutish sort of way. It is pugnacious like a little bulldog. The guys at Bimmerfile said it best - its styling has a sort of vulgarity about it.

[MaxL]

Originally Posted by HERR FSTIR

Where I live I cannot hope to make great use of the M3's top end where the motor really comes alive.

The motor "comes alive" (reaches it's peak torque) at about 20MPH, so you just need to leave the neighborhood to enjoy it. In fact, if you shift correctly, in most street conditions M3 is traction-limited between 22MPH and 70MPH (from 4.5K RPM on 1st to the top of 2nd gear), which means getting more torque anywhere in this range would only produce more smoke.

[ttt]

Originally Posted by MaxL

The motor "comes alive" (reaches it's peak torque) at about 20MPH, so you just need to leave the neighborhood to enjoy it. In fact, if you shift correctly, in most street conditions M3 is traction-limited between 22MPH and 70MPH (from 4.5K RPM on 1st to the top of 2nd gear), which means getting more torque anywhere in this range would only produce more smoke.

+1.
You really don't need to go to extreme speed in order to enjoy m3's v8. Just put your foot down and shift around 8k rpm.

[M3_WC]

M3 or 1M

No Failures or HPFP Failures

[DaFish]

Originally Posted by MaxL

The motor "comes alive" (reaches it's peak torque) at about 20MPH, so you just need to leave the neighborhood to enjoy it. In fact, if you shift correctly, in most street conditions M3 is traction-limited between 22MPH and 70MPH (from 4.5K RPM on 1st to the top of 2nd gear), which means getting more torque anywhere in this range would only produce more smoke.

up to 70mph is daily driving basically... so I think the real decision point is what is going to be the most usable fun for YOU? M3 or 1M?

I would like to be corrected on these statements below. It is what I BELIEVE would be true - I have only test drove M3s....

As the previous post mentioned, In the M3 you will need to keep it in 1st or 2nd to have max power. In the 1M (or my 335) I can use 1, 2, 3 or 4th and have the seat in the pants pull. I find in my 335 it is noticed less because it isn't really making a lot of noise, but still pulls like a freight train. Torque.

Both will get the power down, but I would think the M3 would be more stable and solid.

DCT in the M3 would facilitate really quick shifts to bring the motor into the power band.... 1M - no need.... you are always in power band.

This is for up to 70mph - the daily drive.

[BasicMarinWheels]

Originally Posted by adc

I had a chance to see the 1M in person at the DC Auto Show . . . .

Bottom line is that I would not feel embarrassed driving it - and I am still interested most in how it drives, utility and cost (in that order). Looks is so down the list as to not be worth mentioning.

If you can summon the patience to read through scores of silly posts debating the looks of a car, usually you can count on someone being the voice of reason and saying what most of us are thinking. In this thread, ADC is that someone.

[graider]

Originally Posted by DaFish

your comments I think are spot on.

$7k premium for these enhancements is very, very good.
1M fixes the following with the 135/335 platform:

(I am estimating pricing - just ignor them if they are not 100% correct - bottom line is we couldn't upgrade a stock 135/335 for 7k)
1) larger rims and tires than the 135/335 - we needed the larger fender flares to house larger front tires - this puts the ZCP rims and tires on the 1M (7 to 10k)
2) Larger intercooler (1.5k)
3) more oil cooling (1.5k)
4) better brakes (3 to 7k - brembos....)
5) M3 front control arms (more neg camber) - and I bet it has better rear control arm bushings too. (.5k)
6) I think it has the M3 subframe bushings (2k)
7) and the most important - the LSD (not sure if it has the M clutch LSD - probably - this is a the best thing thing....) (at least 2k)
8) maybe the m3 Sways or at least better balanced sways (1k)

I personally think that the only reason they called it the M was because they put the LSD in and they won't offer the LSD in any other cars..... which sucks. BMW should offer the LSD as an option like other manufacturers do.

I have priced out these upgrades to my 335 and the price is like 20k (rims and tires are very expensive). (I am also in Canada and we pay more).

IF I was to get the 1M, I would take the 335is motor that they put in the 1M and put the dinan software or another tune on it and bump the power up past the ridiculously low power increase they gave it... the motor can handle at least the Dinan tune - especially with the additional cooling.

I have the M3 control arms, Dinan suspension and I can tell you the steering is so much better... M3 good.

With the M3 LSD, this car would get the power down - my Dinan 335 just absolutely sucks for power delivery.....

Now for the comparison.... I would compare the 1M to a modded 335 - NOT the M3 for the following reasons:

1) no M dynamic - the 1M M button just changes throttle response I think.... so f'n what.... M Dynamic and the computer manages traction - missing....
2) the sound.... nothing beats it.
3) NA motor - 8300 red line.... power to 8500 (with tune)....
4) interior... seats, trim... the M3 is just way nicer....
5) it is a race car for the street - and it is so nice looking....
6) I think it is missing the adjustable shocks.... that sucks.

Now the 1M
1) a lot of features for 7k premium.... totally cool
2) I personally don't like the look, 3 series is just beautiful, 1 - not so.... but it looks better than a stock 1 series for sure.
3) BMW will sell tons of these.... the "M" letter will sell this thing.... it was a brilliant move, same with the IS line....
4) MUCH better mileage.

The problem is the M3 is so expensive. In Canada I would have had to give my 08 Dinan 335 with 50,000 KMS and $57,000 to get into a M3. That is too much. The 1M will fit for a lot of people. That said... M3 all the way for me.... and not a TT one.....

i think it is a bargain for 7k. even the factory 1m body kit alone is worth 7k already IMO.

just look at aftermarket body kit for 10-20k.....nough said.

[phusion974]

The 1M might be a good performance car but I hate the looks. I would much rather have an M3.

[Olagüe]

3

[BMW269]

It is really interesting to know whcih of them (1M vs. M3) is faster around the track in stock form. According to the numbers I have (not 100 % sure if correct) the 1M is still faster than the M3:

N-Ring times: (1M E82 & M3 E92)

8:00 min : M3 Competition DCT (Michelin PS2)
8:05 min : M3 Coupé Manual with 18" rims (Michelin PSCup+)
8:12 min : 1M Coupé Manual with 19" Competition rims (Michelin PS2)
8:15 min : M3 Coupé Manual with 19" rims (Michelin PS2)

I do not know for which reason M GmbH put the Competition rims on the 1M Coupé, but I think with the 18" rims, having the same tires - 245 / 265 - it would be faster and would run the N-Ring in 8:00 min with Cup+ tires.

[MVF4Rrider]

Originally Posted by Levi

It is really interesting to know whcih of them (1M vs. M3) is faster around the track in stock form. According to the numbers I have (not 100 % sure if correct) the 1M is still faster than the M3:

N-Ring times: (1M E82 & M3 E92)

8:00 min : M3 Competition DCT (Michelin PS2)
8:05 min : M3 Coupé Manual with 18" rims (Michelin PSCup+)
8:12 min : 1M Coupé Manual with 19" Competition rims (Michelin PS2)
8:15 min : M3 Coupé Manual with 19" rims (Michelin PS2)

I do not know for which reason M GmbH put the Competition rims on the 1M Coupé, but I think with the 18" rims, having the same tires - 245 / 265 - it would be faster and would run the N-Ring in 8:00 min with Cup+ tires.

As long as the 1M is a 6MT it's never going to beat the E92 M3 DCT around the ring, stock for stock. Making tire switches and stabbing at potential improvement is moot as ideally the cars are compared with the rubber that comes on the car. Otherwise, just put racing slicks on them and have at it.

[Jaypod]

Originally Posted by shift@red

The M3 is faster, whether its 6mt or dct, 18s or 19s.

Based on this statement I assume you have driven both and have evidence to support?

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by Levi

It is really interesting to know whcih of them (1M vs. M3) is faster around the track in stock form. According to the numbers I have (not 100 % sure if correct) the 1M is still faster than the M3:

N-Ring times: (1M E82 & M3 E92)

8:00 min : M3 Competition DCT (Michelin PS2)
8:05 min : M3 Coupé Manual with 18" rims (Michelin PSCup+)
8:12 min : 1M Coupé Manual with 19" Competition rims (Michelin PS2)
8:15 min : M3 Coupé Manual with 19" rims (Michelin PS2)

I do not know for which reason M GmbH put the Competition rims on the 1M Coupé, but I think with the 18" rims, having the same tires - 245 / 265 - it would be faster and would run the N-Ring in 8:00 min with Cup+ tires.

Couldn't find the listing where the M3 goes 8 flat with the competition package and auto. Would you give me a pointer, please?

Thanks,

Bruce

[DaFish]

I was just at the Canadian Auto show and saw both the 1M and M3 Comp side by side. Some observations:

1) The 1M looks WAY nicer than the 135 - WAY... the comp rims and fender flares, front and rear facia truly transform the car. The wheel, seats and extra motor bits (cooling), and LSD make this the best deal going. if you want an inexpensive M, this is the car. 335hp is a joke though, get a tune on it and immediately put this to 400/400 - in a heart beat.

3) The M3 frozen black - I don't like it... the show had so many cars with frozen paint... not a fan. Gimmie a nice black metalic sapphire any day (like mine) in the sun, you can't beat it.

4) the black COMP rims on the M3 were stunning. AW with Black rims, or Silver/black rims would be goregous.

it comes down to cash. If you have the cash, get the M3 - BUT you will not go wrong - in person the 1M looks good - and I am not a 1 series guy.

[jerezm3_08]

Originally Posted by Brosef

+1

Couldn't agree more

M3 all the way!!!: bow:

[E. Honda]

Originally Posted by Jaypod

Based on this statement I assume you have driven both and have evidence to support?

Do you really need evidence? The only thing that it has the M3 beat in is torque, and thats because the engine isn't NA.

[pbonsalb]

I would take the used M3 over the new 1M. I think you get more car with the M3.

However, if I wanted to spend some money modding a car, I would consider a used 135 or 335 with mods as an alternative to the used M3. I like the torque of the fast spooling twin turbo engine in daily driving. After factoring in weight and tire diameter and the fact that the N54's official torque is underrated, the M3 has maybe a 10% torque advantage and that is once it reaches its peak at 3900 rpm. The 135/335 is making its torque peak 2000 rpm earlier (2600 rpm earlier according to BMW's numbers). Add a tune and some mods and the 135/335 beats the M3 in a straight line and around a track (Grassroots Motorsports beat, albeit barely, the M3 with a 335i sporting about $7000 in mods and professional BMW race car driver James Clay driving both cars).

I bought the M3 because I wanted a daily driver that was fast and handled great without any mods (I have another BMW that is my modified car). The M3 is simply a great package.

If fuel economy is a consideration, keep in mind that the M3 is thirsty all the time. The 135/335 can return pretty good MPG when driven gently, probably 50% better than the M3.