|
|
05-21-2008, 11:53 AM | #1 |
First Lieutenant
77
Rep 363
Posts |
7-Speed Dual-Clutch who's is best?
Now before anyone slams me for my lack of provided information lets just consider past experience. With BMW, Ferrari, Mercedes now producing 7 speed dual clutch gear boxes and Audi-Lamborghini not far behind I think a comparo is necessary, how ever most of these gear boxes are in their infancy still so actual literature and specs on them is hard to come by. But based on the past BMW SMG I, II, III Ferrari F1 Superfast I, II Mercedes 7 speed auto and Audi-VW DSG... which one of the newest gear boxes will take the crown?
|
05-21-2008, 12:03 PM | #4 |
Moderator / European Editor
1492
Rep 6,755
Posts |
Sorry, but
Best regards, south
__________________
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-21-2008, 12:17 PM | #5 |
Commander-In-Chief
2070
Rep 8,898
Posts
Drives: 2023 M2 Coupe, 2020 GLE 450
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Lake Oswego, OR
|
You sure about that? Their new box is a wet clutch automated manual, isn't it?
2/8/08: "Debuting on the SL 63 is AMG’s newly developed SPEEDSHIFT MCT 7-speed sports transmission, which ditches the conventional torque converters and replaces it with a wet compact start-up clutch. This allows for a direct connection to the powertrain, providing for an engaging driving experience. The Multi-Clutch Technology only employs the clutch elements to perform gearshifts and offers four drive modes, double-declutching and Race Start function. '
__________________
Greg Lake Oswego, Oregon, USA 2023 M2 Coupe - Brooklyn Grey/Cognac/CF, 6MT; 2020 MB GLE 450 |
Appreciate
0
|
05-21-2008, 12:20 PM | #6 | |
Banned
823
Rep 46,029
Posts |
Quote:
merc keeps changing stuff all the time, including engines. there's so much competition and tranny seems to be headed towards dual clutches for some reason. i just wish merc invests a bit in a manual tranny on their AMG's |
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-21-2008, 12:31 PM | #7 |
Moderator
7506
Rep 19,370
Posts |
Mantis where did you hear about the merc double clutch? Got a link? All I know about is the MCT that Greg mentioned, and like he said its no dual clutch tranny.
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-21-2008, 12:49 PM | #8 |
Lieutenant General
609
Rep 10,407
Posts |
Ferrari 430 transmission is not a dual clutch (base nor Scuderia). It is very similar to the BMW SMG III - a fully automated manual transmission. They will be using a true DC on the new California.
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-21-2008, 12:50 PM | #9 |
Brigadier General
124
Rep 4,145
Posts |
I wish I had the chance to experience that. Of all of those transmissions, I've only driven the SMG II and III so I can't really comment.
__________________
2017 F80 YMB.
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-21-2008, 01:05 PM | #10 |
Major General
1072
Rep 8,008
Posts
Drives: i4M50
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: No where fast
|
As very few of us will ever get the chance to sample all of the available dual clutch systems I don't see how an accurate opinion can be given.
I know how the DSG 6sp behaves but it's unknown if the new DSG 7sp will behave the same. We now know have the BMW M-DCT behave and all is not well, with some people finding fault with the lag on take-off and other disliking the surge. The EVO system has also come up for criticism in some magazines say it's dim twitted. The only systems I haven't heard a single bad word about is the GTR's DCT and the Bugatti's DSG but I reckon if you look hard enough there will be someone who can find fault with them too. No system is 100% perfect. |
Appreciate
0
|
05-21-2008, 01:37 PM | #11 | |
Lieutenant General
609
Rep 10,407
Posts |
Quote:
Talk about QUICK and PREMATURE on your second section. The eternal M-DCT pessimist.... I trust you have also read the absolutely glowing review of the Mitsu system that tells us even the auto mode is plently good to get around the track just as fast or faster than the manual modes? Perhaps you have also not seen the less than stellar comments about the GT-R system? I have. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-21-2008, 01:38 PM | #12 |
//Mdicted
346
Rep 9,988
Posts
Drives: a Cop Magnet
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: 495 Ring
iTrader: (18)
Garage List 2009 e92 M3 DCT CF ... [10.00]
2015 S-Works Roubaix [0.00] 2013 Trek Madone 5.9 [9.50] 2012 Scott - CR1-Pro [10.00] 2008 e92 M3 6MT (Up ... [10.00] 2002 e46 M3 Cabriol ... [7.00] 2006 e90-325i (DD) [7.00] 2002 e39 M5 (retired) [9.50] |
this thing should have been a Poll
__________________
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-21-2008, 01:43 PM | #13 |
Brigadier General
124
Rep 4,145
Posts |
How many people really have experience with either one? Hopefully, we'll be seeing the GT-R soon. Now who knows someone with the means to acquire a Veyron?
__________________
2017 F80 YMB.
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-21-2008, 03:06 PM | #16 |
Major
37
Rep 1,413
Posts |
Never had any experience except the Volkswagen GTI (DSG if it counts). I ordered my M3 with DCT just on a leap of faith. It must be nice if we can just afford all those cars. So my vote for now is the GTI.
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-21-2008, 04:50 PM | #18 | ||
Major General
1072
Rep 8,008
Posts
Drives: i4M50
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: No where fast
|
Quote:
Quote:
Please post a link or scans of the review because I haven't read any myself, nor any bad reviews of the Bugatti system which I believe is beyond reproach. |
||
Appreciate
0
|
05-21-2008, 04:52 PM | #19 |
Major General
1072
Rep 8,008
Posts
Drives: i4M50
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: No where fast
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-21-2008, 05:44 PM | #20 | |
Brigadier General
125
Rep 3,071
Posts
Drives: E92M3-E46M3-E46Wagon-E89Z4-E36
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Greater St Louis Metro area
|
Quote:
Any transmission that could downshift to the correct gear to downshift to for each particular corner would truly be amazing.
__________________
Invest Wisely...The best mod for your money?? BMWCCA high performance driver's school. The mod that lasts a lifetime and improves the performance of any car you drive[/LEFT]
Last edited by skierman64; 05-21-2008 at 06:09 PM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-21-2008, 06:21 PM | #21 | |
Lieutenant General
609
Rep 10,407
Posts |
Quote:
Software is the key to great track performance and M-DCT software is darn good. As I have noted in previous posts the aggressive (D5 and D6) modes in M-DCT wait a very long time (high rpm) to upshift, wait until redline if you are at WOT, very quickly downshift (when there is lack of being in the right part of the powerband and you even increase the throttle just a bit), downshift multiple gears at the touch of throttle and finally they do move aggressively to the right gear when braking and setting up for corners. On unsettling: 1. DCTs are inherently smooth and even under the most agressive "jerk" in high S (manual modes) can be managed by the transmission control system and DSC. I'm not positive that jerk in corners is managed but I suspect it is. 2. Another example is that M-DCT can and does engage the active clutch when engine braking and cornering load could exceed total rear grip. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-22-2008, 05:28 AM | #22 | |
Major General
1072
Rep 8,008
Posts
Drives: i4M50
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: No where fast
|
Quote:
What DCT in auto mode will do is give the normal driver the ability to concentrate on the actual steering, placement on the track, braking area and ideal line through the corner, plus keep an eye on other drivers without concerning themselves with yet another exercise to think about. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|