Engine locking up??? ESS VT2-600

[Brooklyn Mark]

I have noticed that sometimes my engine will lock up or something weird will happen. This always happens when I do a full boost from 3rd to 4th gear, then in 4th gear the RPM will jam up 6500 rpm. Not sure if this is a boost issue or what going on, but its scary!

[lve2xlr8]

If your engine was locking up you would be at 0rpm. Can you give more specifics? Is it like you hit the rev limiter or does it stutter there?

[Brosef]

sounds like it's your fuel system cutting off. this happens in colder temps on boosted cars (though not as low as 6500 rpm - if that's really the case I'd check with Roman). it's a built-in safety mechanism on these cars - the DME does this when it senses the fuel system is about to become overloaded.

[THE TECH]

Originally Posted by Brosef

sounds like it's your fuel system cutting off. this happens in colder temps on boosted cars (though not as low as 6500 rpm - if that's really the case I'd check with Roman). it's a built-in safety mechanism on these cars - the DME does this when it senses the fuel system is about to become overloaded.

If true, sounds like a new tune might be needed.

[IND-Distribution]

It does sound like you're seeing a reduced redline. In cold weather you are producing substantially more power than you would be on an 80 degree day. More air in the combustion chamber means that you'll need more fuel to maintain appropriate AFR, and this means that the DME calls for more fuel earlier than normally.

If the pump has trouble keeping up with fuel flow, fuel pressure in the rail will drop. The DME has a very low allowable limit for maximum fuel pressure drop before it stops the fun. The limit is actually far above safe minimum levels. You can see a substantially higher fuel pressure drop and still maintain perfect AFR as the original setting in the DME is extremely conservative.

More than likely, this is what you're experiencing. This is tough to avoid in extremely cold weather, but ESS does have a software update fix that will largely alleviate the problem.

How old is your ESS kit? You may be using a very old file that still has the ultra conservative fuel pressure safeguard.

[Brooklyn Mark]

Originally Posted by Ilia@IND

It does sound like you're seeing a reduced redline. In cold weather you are producing substantially more power than you would be on an 80 degree day. More air in the combustion chamber means that you'll need more fuel to maintain appropriate AFR, and this means that the DME calls for more fuel earlier than normally.

If the pump has trouble keeping up with fuel flow, fuel pressure in the rail will drop. The DME has a very low allowable limit for maximum fuel pressure drop before it stops the fun. The limit is actually far above safe minimum levels. You can see a substantially higher fuel pressure drop and still maintain perfect AFR as the original setting in the DME is extremely conservative.

More than likely, this is what you're experiencing. This is tough to avoid in extremely cold weather, but ESS does have a software update fix that will largely alleviate the problem.

How old is your ESS kit? You may be using a very old file that still has the ultra conservative fuel pressure safeguard.

Just got it installed this July.

[erm324]

I remember speaking with Zim (m33) about this issue, supposedly they were working on a supplemental fuel pump or something of the sort. I think a new udpate on the tune should fix this, but it was the only issue ive ever heard from the ess kit (in cold temps).....they should be able to take care of you

[sales@ESSTuning]

PM sent.

[prodigymb]

my friends VT625 does the same thing in 4th gear on the highway. feels like some type of limp mode. roman - how can this be fixed. maybe the stock pump is going? maybe an inline to help maintain pressure?

[AJ@ESS]

A lowered RPM limit is normally caused by 1 of 2 things :

1. You have an O2 sensor malfunction, this will restrict the RPM limit if the ECU does not have a solid reference for AF ratio. Check error codes and replace affected sensor if any codes come up.

2. In cold weather your kit is making so much power your fuel pump can not keep target fuel pressure up top. The S65 engine runs a closed loop, electronically controlled fuel pressure system. If it can not keep target fuel pressure in the high RPM range it will lower the RPM limit to protect the engine from running lean. We now offer software with wider tolerances for fuel pressure drop and lower programmed target fuel pressure/higher injector duty cycle which will allow you to squeeze out a little more from the OEM fuel delivery system. This is normally used in the 650 kit, but can also be used in the 600/625 kits running high power in very cold temperatures. Another option is to simply lower the boost pressure a little in the winter to bring it down closer to the rated power level of the kit. The normal capacity of the factory fuel system running standard pressure drop limits is around 530-560whp depending on how good your pump is. A catless/HFC equipped 600/625 kit running full boost can surpass this if you have a strong engine running in cold temperatures.

We are working on a direct replacement, electronically controlled fuel pump system that will support 700++ HP. You can not run an inline fuel pump/pump booster or any other conventional trick on a closed loop fuel system like this. The only solution to improve fuel capacity is either to install a higher capacity system controlled by the ECU fuel control system or to lobotimize the entire system, recoding the ECU for this and run a conventional fuel pressure system with a mechanical FPR and a return line.

[Alekshop]

Originally Posted by AJ@ESS

A lowered RPM limit is normally caused by 1 of 2 things :

1. You have an O2 sensor malfunction, this will restrict the RPM limit if the ECU does not have a solid reference for AF ratio. Check error codes and replace affected sensor if any codes come up.

2. In cold weather your kit is making so much power your fuel pump can not keep target fuel pressure up top. The S65 engine runs a closed loop, electronically controlled fuel pressure system. If it can not keep target fuel pressure in the high RPM range it will lower the RPM limit to protect the engine from running lean. We now offer software with wider tolerances for fuel pressure drop and lower programmed target fuel pressure/higher injector duty cycle which will allow you to squeeze out a little more from the OEM fuel delivery system. This is normally used in the 650 kit, but can also be used in the 600/625 kits running high power in very cold temperatures. Another option is to simply lower the boost pressure a little in the winter to bring it down closer to the rated power level of the kit. The normal capacity of the factory fuel system running standard pressure drop limits is around 530-560whp depending on how good your pump is. A catless/HFC equipped 600/625 kit running full boost can surpass this if you have a strong engine running in cold temperatures.

We are working on a direct replacement, electronically controlled fuel pump system that will support 700++ HP. You can not run an inline fuel pump/pump booster or any other conventional trick on a closed loop fuel system like this. The only solution to improve fuel capacity is either to install a higher capacity system controlled by the ECU fuel control system or to lobotimize the entire system, recoding the ECU for this and run a conventional fuel pressure system with a mechanical FPR and a return line.

Good info AJ

[Brooklyn Mark]

Originally Posted by AJ@ESS

A lowered RPM limit is normally caused by 1 of 2 things :

1. You have an O2 sensor malfunction, this will restrict the RPM limit if the ECU does not have a solid reference for AF ratio. Check error codes and replace affected sensor if any codes come up.

2. In cold weather your kit is making so much power your fuel pump can not keep target fuel pressure up top. The S65 engine runs a closed loop, electronically controlled fuel pressure system. If it can not keep target fuel pressure in the high RPM range it will lower the RPM limit to protect the engine from running lean. We now offer software with wider tolerances for fuel pressure drop and lower programmed target fuel pressure/higher injector duty cycle which will allow you to squeeze out a little more from the OEM fuel delivery system. This is normally used in the 650 kit, but can also be used in the 600/625 kits running high power in very cold temperatures. Another option is to simply lower the boost pressure a little in the winter to bring it down closer to the rated power level of the kit. The normal capacity of the factory fuel system running standard pressure drop limits is around 530-560whp depending on how good your pump is. A catless/HFC equipped 600/625 kit running full boost can surpass this if you have a strong engine running in cold temperatures.

We are working on a direct replacement, electronically controlled fuel pump system that will support 700++ HP. You can not run an inline fuel pump/pump booster or any other conventional trick on a closed loop fuel system like this. The only solution to improve fuel capacity is either to install a higher capacity system controlled by the ECU fuel control system or to lobotimize the entire system, recoding the ECU for this and run a conventional fuel pressure system with a mechanical FPR and a return line.

After further high speed testing I noticed that the RPM limiter does not drop. Once I hit 4th gear and 5k rpm the rpm runs very slow to 8k almost like it was jammed.

[m33]

Originally Posted by Brooklyn Mark

After further high speed testing I noticed that the RPM limiter does not drop. Once I hit 4th gear and 5k rpm the rpm runs very slow to 8k almost like it was jammed.

Sounds the like ecu doing its job by safely limiting you from cuts ...
Once AJ finalizes the new fuel system you will be good !

[madsex343]

Originally Posted by m33

Sounds the like ecu doing its job by safely limiting you from cuts ...
Once AJ finalizes the new fuel system you will be good !

Sorry for jumping in man, but are you saying that we may need a new fuel system with the VT600? ???

[sales@ESSTuning]

Originally Posted by Brooklyn Mark

After further high speed testing I noticed that the RPM limiter does not drop. Once I hit 4th gear and 5k rpm the rpm runs very slow to 8k almost like it was jammed.

Slow climb to 8k from 5k in one gear sounds odd. I will shoot you a PM to discuss.

[sales@ESSTuning]

Originally Posted by madsex343

Sorry for jumping in man, but are you saying that we may need a new fuel system with the VT600? ???

Not the 600 but some 625 and 650 kits that are exceeding power rating due to cold weather have had to be updated. We have only seen a few examples of this in our early 625 / 650 kits and in most cases our most recent software update has resolved the issue.

[madsex343]

Originally Posted by Roman@ESS

Not the 600 but some 625 and 650 kits that are exceeding power rating due to cold weather have had to be updated. We have only seen a few examples of this in our early 625 / 650 kits and in most cases our most recent software update has resolved the issue.

Thanks Roman,
I am only asking as we have low temps here during winter + we have 100Ron octane fuel + sea level altitudes so cars run quite strong this side of the world and I would hate to be in the same situation ....

[sales@ESSTuning]

Originally Posted by madsex343

Thanks Roman,
I am only asking as we have low temps here during winter + we have 100Ron octane fuel + sea level altitudes so cars run quite strong this side of the world and I would hate to be in the same situation ....

Just let me know if you come across any issues. Worst case scenario you can drop boost slightly during really cold months as the car is making more power but you should be fine.

[gixxer_kidd]

OP, a new tune should fix your issue. Check with Roman or AJ to see if you have the latest tune.