Do you but HPDE track insurance?

[4u3]

I wondering do you purchase HDPE track insurance when you track your car? I never did because I thought my auto ins covered but it does not, and I can not find a company that does, they closed that loop hole. If your insurance does cover HPDE, please let me know the company. Thanks

[skierman64]

Originally Posted by 4u3

I wondering do you purchase HDPE track insurance when you track your car? I never did because I thought my auto ins covered but it does not, and I can not find a company that does, they closed that loop hole. If your insurance does cover HPDE, please let me know the company. Thanks

My regular insurance did not exclude track use until June of 08 when they rewrote my policy at renewal. Now I buy supplemental insurance when I track my car. I can't afford a $70K loss.

[4u3]

If I may ask what is the amt of ins that you buy. The HPDE policy I found has a 90% coinsurance clause, which means you have to insure it for almost full value.

[M3V8Driver]

My insurance covers everything except a "timed speed event", which an HPDE is not. Most tracks we run at also hold normal driver's ed courses, including accident avoidance, winter driving, ultimate car control, etc. These are the types of programs that usually result in decreased insurance rates upon completion. If anything happens while you're at one of these, it's not very different than an HPDE, and a good lawyer will see to it that your insurance covers it. Read your policy closely and see if the wording is similar to mine.

[von_zoom]

M3V8Driver gives some good advice. The state of North Carolina does not allow an Insurance Co to exclude educational type events. HPDE is an educational event, and it is therefore covered by a NC policy. However, Virginia is intirely different. The State of Va allows exclusion, therefore if you live in Va. you are not covered. I don't know about Maryland. Now, some HPDE schools have Insurance Companies who write policies specifically for that individual event. They are not inexpensive, but will provide you coverage for YOUR property damage, and not necessarilly the damage done to others, or the track. You have to check into that, carefully.
Hope this will help.
vz

[dawgdog]

I have purchased the dedicated track insurance twice. The problem is it is $275-$300 for $50,000 coverage; BMW CCA negotiated a slightly better rate. So with the club track fee and inspection fee it gets to be a $500+ event. The company is Lockton Infinity (sp?) and it is on the Motorsporsreg.com site. I'm going again July 10th and I don't know if I will insure or not. Would be devastating to lose this car.

[skierman64]

I'd rather pay the $300 in insurance than buy a $70K loss myself. I'm not covered at HDPEs in NJ. Use to be, but no longer. Yes, there's a huge deductible with Lockton, but I'm not looking for insurance to cover a fender bender, I'm looking to be covered for the big loss. Yes, it makes for expensive HDPE weekends, but it's still worth it.

I really need to find a E36 M3 track car.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by skierman64

I'd rather pay the $300 in insurance than buy a $70K loss myself. I'm not covered at HDPEs in NJ. Use to be, but no longer. Yes, there's a huge deductible with Lockton, but I'm not looking for insurance to cover a fender bender, I'm looking to be covered for the big loss. Yes, it makes for expensive HDPE weekends, but it's still worth it.

I really need to find a E36 M3 track car.

Didn't you own a E36 M3?

I agree with your perspective on insurance. I'd like to know that my car is covered for sure. I don't want to duke it out with an insurance company about the fine print in court, which I think most of them will when they find out you were on a race course driving at 100+ mph, and who knows what court will decide (I provided an example of that in another thread).

Also, FYI, if you buy an annual policy, the rate goes down to about $150/event. That option makes sense if you do 10 events per year or more.

[lucid]

There is more discussion on this here:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...%28warranty%29

[MTROIS]

Have done one HPDE and took the BMW CCA / Lockton insurance. As Skier is saying, in the big scheme of things $300 is a god price for peace of mind and insuring a $70k toy!

[FrenchBoy]

I too purchased the HPDE insurance for my last track event in Portland. In my mind, that's the price to pay to play with a $70K toy at the track.

Not that I wish anyone harm at the track, I wish we had feedback from someone who actually had to file a claim with Lockton insurance and hear how it went.

[M3V8Driver]

Guys, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you. I think you owe it to yourselves to READ your policies BEFORE you buy supplemental insurance. There's still a good chance these days that your insurance will cover things, should something go wrong. Talk to your agent and ask flat out, "Am I covered if I partake in this high performance driving school?" You can even share the description with the agent. Most descriptions emphasize safety, car control, safe environment, etc. There's a story in the latest Roundel magazine about a guy who's Porsche was totalled at a track in the midwest while letting his bonehead instructor drive it, and the students insurance covered it! Why throw money away if you don't have to if you're already pay for insurance anyway?

[lucid]

Originally Posted by M3V8Driver

Guys, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you. I think you owe it to yourselves to READ your policies BEFORE you buy supplemental insurance. There's still a good chance these days that your insurance will cover things, should something go wrong. Talk to your agent and ask flat out, "Am I covered if I partake in this high performance driving school?" You can even share the description with the agent. Most descriptions emphasize safety, car control, safe environment, etc. There's a story in the latest Roundel magazine about a guy who's Porsche was totalled at a track in the midwest while letting his bonehead instructor drive it, and the students insurance covered it! Why throw money away if you don't have to if you're already pay for insurance anyway?

Did you click on the link I referenced above? My friend was told he was covered several times by his agent (yes, he should have gotten that in writing). Then he totaled his car. He's been fighting the company for over 6 months in court about what HPDE means exactly. There are gray areas in every policy. Just because HPDEs are not explicitly excluded does not mean that the company will consider them covered. An insurance lawyer commented in that thread saying gray areas would most likely be ruled in the policy holder's favor, but that would most likely require going to court and fighting them. That's a serious hassle--observing my friend's case.

The real question is can you get any insurance company to give you a piece of paper saying you WILL be covered in an HPDE under you regular auto insurance policy?

Anyway, this is all a mute point for me since apparently in Mass, HPDEs are excluded. The insurance market is state regulated here. I've asked a few companies and they all said no.

[von_zoom]

...... in Mass, HPDEs are excluded. The insurance market is state regulated here.

Thats the key Lucid. It all depends upon what the state allows to be excluded. In North Carolina, so far, we have been fortunate in that our Insurance Commisioner has been favorable towards HPDE, so the Insurance Cos are on the hook, so long as there is NO TIMING DEVICES or COMPETITION being practiced at the event. Our organizers at VIR are most watchful for any kind of timeing device. That said, I am not sure what the rule is re incar computers. No one has asked.
vz

[lucid]

Originally Posted by von_zoom

Thats the key Lucid. It all depends upon what the state allows to be excluded. In North Carolina, so far, we have been fortunate in that our Insurance Commisioner has been favorable towards HPDE, so the Insurance Cos are on the hook, so long as there is NO TIMING DEVICES or COMPETITION being practiced at the event. Our organizers at VIR are most watchful for any kind of timeing device. That said, I am not sure what the rule is re incar computers. No one has asked.
vz

The case I referenced does not involve a Mass policy, and I'm pretty sure there are no HPDE specific exclusions in the state where my friend was residing at the time. Anyway, my 2 cents. Again, if one can get that he/she would be covered in an HPDE in writing, that obviously settles it.

[skierman64]

Originally Posted by lucid

Didn't you own a E36 M3?

I agree with your perspective on insurance. I'd like to know that my car is covered for sure. I don't want to duke it out with an insurance company about the fine print in court, which I think most of them will when they find out you were on a race course driving at 100+ mph, and who knows what court will decide (I provided an example of that in another thread).

Also, FYI, if you buy an annual policy, the rate goes down to about $150/event. That option makes sense if you do 10 events per year or more.

I did own an E36 M3 but it was in too good of shape to turn into a track car. Plus the cost of a roll cage and other good track car accessories makes that a pricey proposition. Also given that I can pick up a decent "pre-made" E36 track car for under $10K, money wise it is cheaper to sell previous E36 and buy a ready made one.

[skierman64]

HDPEs are excluded from coverage in NJ.

[4u3]

I am an insurance agent have been for the last 31 yrs. I can not find a company that covers HPDE, five yrs ago maybe. They simply exclude all events held on a race track. If you think you are covered think again except NC. A gray area will cost you time in court, believe me ins cos have attys on staff, they will see you in court. I am in the state of MD, all the big boys, state farm, Progressive, allstate etc. no coverage. If one company does it the others follow suit, they all drink from the same cup.

Tracking your car for the weekend is $1,000.00 affair. Track cost, $350, Ins 300, wear and tear on the vehicle, etc. That what I budget. Who cares live is very short.

[Gearhead999s]

This is probally of only interest to people who track in Canada,but I had a phone call from my friend who is in the insurance business who also insures high-performance boats for poker runs and was aware of the lack of ontrack insurance available in Canada.He just got the OK from an Underwriter to put some programs in place and will be activly working on this in the next few weeks.As more information becomes available,I will forward that along.

[attila]

I do not have any special insurance for HPDE. But I have minimum insurance on my cars in general. I had very bad experience with insurance companies (two companies exactly - long stories). If I total my car I am much more worried about my well being and able to continue working than a $70k car.

[Dascamel]

Originally Posted by attila

I do not have any special insurance for HPDE. But I have minimum insurance on my cars in general. I had very bad experience with insurance companies (two companies exactly - long stories). If I total my car I am much more worried about my well being and able to continue working than a $70k car.

+1

If I total it, fine, guess its a honda civic until the cars paid off..... Your health and safety are far more important.

[skierman64]

Originally Posted by Gearhead999s

This is probally of only interest to people who track in Canada,but I had a phone call from my friend who is in the insurance business who also insures high-performance boats for poker runs and was aware of the lack of ontrack insurance available in Canada.He just got the OK from an Underwriter to put some programs in place and will be activly working on this in the next few weeks.As more information becomes available,I will forward that along.

I have a cottage in Canada and many BMW friends up there as well. I have been to Calabogie and Mt Tremblant. I know many of my Canadian friends either remove or tape over there license plates because some Canadian companies were dropping folks just for driving on the track regardless of whether the drivers were covered or not.

Interesting.

BTW, happy Canada day.