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      03-02-2018, 10:58 PM   #1
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Political Forums solve nothing

Don't you find it interesting, even vexing, that we spend tons of time bantering on this forum, even though we know it will solve absolutely nothing? Count me as guilty, too.

If collectively, all of us spent 1/10th the time bitching at our representatives that we spend here on this forum BS'ing, perhaps the tide would change.

My guess is that our reps haven't got much of clue as to what concerns us because we fail to tell them. We simply gripe on forums, without effect.

Convince me I'm wrong.
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Last edited by 3.0L; 03-02-2018 at 11:06 PM.
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      03-02-2018, 11:06 PM   #2
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I actually sent a few emails to my district representative. Only got one reply which basically said “Thanks for your interest on this matter”.

I also got to sit in on a round table with the Governor, due to my job (who randomly selected me). But I was told don’t speak unless spoken too.
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      03-02-2018, 11:21 PM   #3
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It is wrong to expect to change people's minds here. The best you can hope for is to humanize your position to people of other views.

The reason is that the group of people here are likely of an age where their political views are already formed. Political views are usually shaped by education level, personal impact and innate tribalism (race, religion, ethnicity, etc..). Absent any change is these variables, political opinions tend to calcify.

This applies not to specific positions but the over arching belief system from which the specific opinions form.

So exposure to your "identity" usually occurs in adolescence and education happens in college. After this the rate of education drops off precipitously except for the extreme small minority who practice life long learning.

The vast majority of people here are probably past these two stages. The only inputs left are a sudden change in a station in life or some life altering event that shakes the core beliefs in the previous two stages.

For those reasons people here will not likely change an opinion.

What you should always strive to do is challenge your own beliefs. The best way is to educate yourself on a topic to the extreme. This will help either solidify your beliefs as being correct or to help you change and find the right answer (if it exists). Popular media (news, blogs, YouTube channels, forums) are not a source of education. They are for entertainment purposes only. The folly is that most people use popular media such as news as education.
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      03-02-2018, 11:23 PM   #4
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      03-02-2018, 11:31 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c63er View Post
It is wrong to expect to change people's minds here. The best you can hope for is to humanize your position to people of other views.

The reason is that the group of people here are likely of an age where their political views are already formed. Political views are usually shaped by education level, personal impact and innate tribalism (race, religion, ethnicity, etc..). Absent any change is these variables, political opinions tend to calcify.

This applies not to specific positions but the over arching belief system from which the specific opinions form.

So exposure to your "identity" usually occurs in adolescents and education happens in college. After this the rate of education drops off precipitously except for the extreme small minority who practice life long learning.

The vast majority of people here are probably past these stages. The only inputs left are a sudden change in a station in life or some life altering event that shakes the core beliefs in the previous two stages.

For those reasons people here will not likely change an opinion.

What you should always strive to do is challenge your own beliefs. The best way is to educate yourself on a topic to the extreme. This will help either solidify your beliefs as being correct or to help you change and find the right answer (if it exists). Popular media (news, blogs, YouTube channels, forums) are not a source of education. They are for entertainment purposes only.
+1, with a caveat: Do we spend even 1/10 of our forum time communicating with our representatives?

I seriously doubt it. So, shame on us.

That's my point.

For shame, for shame.
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      03-02-2018, 11:39 PM   #6
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I agree, but keep in mind a lot of these representatives already have their own agendas and are biased. Not all, but many. I went to a meeting with a bunch of other town residents concerning a big construction project the state was doing in my area. A few of them were open to ideas, the rest of them got very upset when opposing viewpoints were explored and wouldn't even listen. It was quite surprising to be honest.
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      03-02-2018, 11:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3.0L View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by c63er View Post
It is wrong to expect to change people's minds here. The best you can hope for is to humanize your position to people of other views.

The reason is that the group of people here are likely of an age where their political views are already formed. Political views are usually shaped by education level, personal impact and innate tribalism (race, religion, ethnicity, etc..). Absent any change is these variables, political opinions tend to calcify.

This applies not to specific positions but the over arching belief system from which the specific opinions form.

So exposure to your "identity" usually occurs in adolescents and education happens in college. After this the rate of education drops off precipitously except for the extreme small minority who practice life long learning.

The vast majority of people here are probably past these stages. The only inputs left are a sudden change in a station in life or some life altering event that shakes the core beliefs in the previous two stages.

For those reasons people here will not likely change an opinion.

What you should always strive to do is challenge your own beliefs. The best way is to educate yourself on a topic to the extreme. This will help either solidify your beliefs as being correct or to help you change and find the right answer (if it exists). Popular media (news, blogs, YouTube channels, forums) are not a source of education. They are for entertainment purposes only.
+1, with a caveat: Do we spend even 1/10 of our forum time communicating with our representatives?

I seriously doubt it. So, shame on us.

That's my point.

For shame, for shame.
It depends on how much of a pessimist or "realist" you are.

Mr smith goes to Washington doesn't exist. Asking or contacting an elected official for change is about as effective as demanding better service at the DMV because you pay taxes. Without getting into the weeds to much, you have to incentivize them to come to you. This can only be done through large groups, be it special interest, religious or other. If you are not participating on those levels then you are simply not a factor on any level. You have to also be highly coordinated especially in regards to timing.
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      03-03-2018, 12:28 AM   #8
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You have to always remember politicians and the wealthy don't care that much about right and wrong...but we care. Politicians only concern is to get elected and fool everybody that they are the best choice and the wealthy are the fuel for the politicians. Around here we don't have politicians or really wealthy....and we are more interesting anyways.
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      03-03-2018, 12:41 AM   #9
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I've actually learned a lot on this forum, in several ways:

1. When someone makes a point, I often need to dig deeper - which educated me on topics I might miss,

2. It's interesting to see people points of view, in different locations and geographies,

3. It's interesting to see how people interpret things differently, and what they value.

But your point is well-made; there is no excuse for not letting your representatives know what you think.
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      03-03-2018, 12:41 AM   #10
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I spent 30 minutes on legislative conference call this afternoon. A member of the assembly has introduced legislation I proposed a couple of months ago and I'll be testifying before a key committee next month. All it takes to get involved is the desire to influence your government and the motivation to find a way to exercise that influence.

And no, my group doesn't make campaign donations, but we do grant some annual awards.
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      03-03-2018, 07:12 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3.0L View Post
Don't you find it interesting, even vexing, that we spend tons of time bantering on this forum, even though we know it will solve absolutely nothing? Count me as guilty, too.

If collectively, all of us spent 1/10th the time bitching at our representatives that we spend here on this forum BS'ing, perhaps the tide would change.

My guess is that our reps haven't got much of clue as to what concerns us because we fail to tell them. We simply gripe on forums, without effect.

Convince me I'm wrong.
I call these environments the new extreme vetting process so many of us needs before contacting a representative.

These days we only oppose shit. It doesn't matter what the topic is, we just oppose it and the people who oppose the same things are our friends, people who think differently for no matter what, we don't bother to consider their point of view at all. Without forums people like I would just keep on going just like I always do.

Forums like this offer context. Lets use bmwwwbdgbsjsjs (there is no way I'll ever get your handle right, sorry!)and me endlessly fighting about the wall last spring as an example. I absolutely think the whole idea of the wall being one of the most stupid things I've ever heard, he wants it. I made fun of his view endlessly.

Then the miracle of a forum happened. One day we discussed the reason we both have passion for that particular topic and it became clear we had more in common with our views in the underlying matter than we thought.

We didn't become fishing buddies, but it is hard to be a bitch towards someone after you realize there is a person behind a view. We both are in our corners in that topic but I do believe he now also understands that we support the same goal if not the method. It'll be hard to find a topic where we would agree but at least for me, the need to scream hateful shit lessened.

Life keeps us in our corners but forums such as this teaches us how to communicate before we go and demand our representatives to back in to a corner too. If everything is black or white only no progress happens.
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Do you believe in Lups?

Keaton always said, "I don't believe in God, but I'm afraid of him." Well, I believe in God -- and the only thing that scares me is Lups.
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      03-03-2018, 01:23 PM   #12
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I think these forums are great to argue about politics. It's a free place to vent frustrations etc., and no matter how much you think you might dislike somebody on here, I bet if we all met each other in the real world we'd get along great.

Need places like this waste time during work etc.
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      03-03-2018, 02:43 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
I think these forums are great to argue about politics. It's a free place to vent frustrations etc., and no matter how much you think you might dislike somebody on here, I bet if we all met each other in the real world we'd get along great.

Need places like this waste time during work etc.
Lol, the opposite for me. Irl I'm way less interested in people , I go to great lengths to avoid contacts with people and I never invite people to my home so they just show up when they need something. I don't visit anyone if they don't owe me their first born or if they don't have a baby I can steal (or at least try).

It doesn't matter why someone wants me to go to their home, if they don't need help with a project I have a flu that day. Calling me is pretty much pointless if you don't want to talk about penises, babies, you're not having a huge issue with a canine or if you're not bleeding to death or if for some weird reason I don't love you more than I do just about everyone. Rude or not, I don't give a fuck about my friends wives wanting to pond with me, I don't give a fuck about Smalltalk.

Now, if you want to drop off your kids for a week on an hours notice, I might teach them table manners and teach them the joy of South Park, they might pick up a new hobby and learn how to drive in that time but don't expect a report when you want them back. My only blood relative besides my own kids I speak with texts me once a month to get me to fix something she broke, and we spend a few hours talking politics.

I'm completely hopeless. When we lived there I almost began to be more social but two years here again and I'm as hopeless as I've always been.

Americans are interesting folks for a Finn since we get your references thanks to our way of putting subtitles to shit, and for me at least it became an addiction to meet people from different parts of the states since you're all so weird! One tried to stab me but no of tried to shoot me and it is wildly accepted fact that I of anyone would've deserved a bullet or five. Americans talking cars is even funnier for me in person since fuck if I know the vocabulary and / or can I pronounce them, my dyslexia is so bad I can't process things like F82, E30, or any other model if I've read about it on any other language than the one I'm speaking in the moment. I can't for the life of me let go of my mild issues with you all being alive with the way you drive so I keep picturing everyone I meet as a zombie.

Anyway. I'm a huge disappointment compared to my online persona so if the politics ot has a meet one day, I understand if I won't get an invite. You rest will get along fine tho!
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Originally Posted by Uber Commuter View Post
Do you believe in Lups?

Keaton always said, "I don't believe in God, but I'm afraid of him." Well, I believe in God -- and the only thing that scares me is Lups.
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      03-03-2018, 03:17 PM   #14
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      03-04-2018, 01:24 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3.0L View Post
Don't you find it interesting, even vexing, that we spend tons of time bantering on this forum, even though we know it will solve absolutely nothing? Count me as guilty, too.

If collectively, all of us spent 1/10th the time bitching at our representatives that we spend here on this forum BS'ing, perhaps the tide would change.

My guess is that our reps haven't got much of clue as to what concerns us because we fail to tell them. We simply gripe on forums, without effect.

Convince me I'm wrong.
I call these environments the new extreme vetting process so many of us needs before contacting a representative.

These days we only oppose shit. It doesn't matter what the topic is, we just oppose it and the people who oppose the same things are our friends, people who think differently for no matter what, we don't bother to consider their point of view at all. Without forums people like I would just keep on going just like I always do.

Forums like this offer context. Lets use bmwwwbdgbsjsjs (there is no way I'll ever get your handle right, sorry!)and me endlessly fighting about the wall last spring as an example. I absolutely think the whole idea of the wall being one of the most stupid things I've ever heard, he wants it. I made fun of his view endlessly.

Then the miracle of a forum happened. One day we discussed the reason we both have passion for that particular topic and it became clear we had more in common with our views in the underlying matter than we thought.

We didn't become fishing buddies, but it is hard to be a bitch towards someone after you realize there is a person behind a view. We both are in our corners in that topic but I do believe he now also understands that we support the same goal if not the method. It'll be hard to find a topic where we would agree but at least for me, the need to scream hateful shit lessened.

Life keeps us in our corners but forums such as this teaches us how to communicate before we go and demand our representatives to back in to a corner too. If everything is black or white only no progress happens.
Omg - it's BBBBMW - how hard could that be??!! Oh wait - you're a liberal.






Just kidding - I agree - this is a great place to engage a discussion - which I appreciate!
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      03-04-2018, 12:31 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Omg - it's BBBBMW - how hard could that be??!! Oh wait - you're a liberal.






Just kidding - I agree - this is a great place to engage a discussion - which I appreciate!
What ever, bmwbbgd!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uber Commuter View Post
Do you believe in Lups?

Keaton always said, "I don't believe in God, but I'm afraid of him." Well, I believe in God -- and the only thing that scares me is Lups.
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