shotgun for home protection

jpsum · 10-01-2009, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo>NA

Buy pistol

Holds more bullets, cheaper, easy to use, and you can carry around the house when someone breaks in.

nah, I need to get a permit for a pistol. No permit needed for shotguns in CT.

jpsum · 10-01-2009, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ejazbmw

lol what kind of towns do you guys live in that you need a gun to feel safe?

Come on, you live in jersey, you should know. I live pretty close to Bridgeport CT, which is similiar to camden or newark of NJ. But honestly, that's just one of my excuse to buy a gun.

BMdblU · 10-01-2009, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ejazbmw

lol what kind of towns do you guys live in that you need a gun to feel safe?

Don't you mean country?

jpsum · 10-01-2009, 08:45 PM

OK... I'm going with Mossberg 500. But can't decide between these two models: Tactical (item #50420 $320) and the Tactical SPX (item #51523 $420). The SPX comes with a rifle sight. Is that rifle sight worth it? or should I save that $100 and get an aftermarket one?

MisterSkiMask · 10-01-2009, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpsum

OK... I'm going with Mossberg 500. But can't decide between these two models: Tactical (item #50420 $320) and the Tactical SPX (item #51523 $420). The SPX comes with a rifle sight. Is that rifle sight worth it? or should I save that $100 and get an aftermarket one?

If you are using it as you intend (blasting some perp in the dark in your home), you don't need it. Its a shot gun, you'll get him with a spray and pray.

Peanuto · 10-01-2009, 08:53 PM

What the hell do you need a rifle sight. Only needed for deer or some use for turkey. A main purpose of a shotgun for home protection is the convenience of a quick aim shot being more accurate thanks the the shot spread. It's not a video game. You won't have a minute to set up your shot and look through a scope. You will have a few seconds at best. Plus you need to calibrate a scope which is a pain in the ass for a home protection weapon.

jpsum · 10-01-2009, 09:03 PM

got it. thx.

ideliver · 10-01-2009, 09:05 PM

save the $100 and buy a whole bunch of shells....get some friends and go throw some sporting clays...best fun you'll have

MisterSkiMask · 10-01-2009, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpsum

got it. thx.

Odds are you will never even pick it up in anger (or fear for that matter) and if you have a pump, just chambering a round will send anyone with half a brain running.

I would load the following (in reverse order of course, so you would chamber in this order)
1 - Blank, give him a second chance to run (give you a chance to not have an accident)
2 - Salt rock (its just funny if you get him running)
3 - Bird shot (he'll be deterred)
4 - Buck Shot (if he is still advancing after three shots this one will stop him)

lib · 10-01-2009, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lkw15

Definitely get a Remington 870. Great quality, reasonably priced and versatile. Plus you can pretty much find them at any big sporting goods place - or even sometimes Wal Mart.

I'd stay away from a Mossberg.

Some place was selling brand new 870's for just over $300 a couple days ago.

ZJP · 10-01-2009, 11:44 PM

scollins · 10-01-2009, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterSkiMask

If you are using it as you intend (blasting some perp in the dark in your home), you don't need it. Its a shot gun, you'll get him with a spray and pray.

First off, a shotgun must still be aimed. It is not "spray and pray." At typical home defense ranges (under 7 yards), a shotgun will pattern at a maximum of 8" down to 1" at point blank range. It sounds like plenty, but put a paper "appetizer" sized plate at 8 to 9 paces away and see how small it looks.

A "point of aim" (POA) swing of just 2 degrees will move your "point of impact" (POI) by 8 inches at 7 yards. I've seen plenty of guys miss at very close range when using a shotgun and just "spraying and praying".

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterSkiMask

Odds are you will never even pick it up in anger (or fear for that matter) and if you have a pump, just chambering a round will send anyone with half a brain running.

I would load the following (in reverse order of course, so you would chamber in this order)
1 - Blank, give him a second chance to run (give you a chance to not have an accident)
2 - Salt rock (its just funny if you get him running)
3 - Bird shot (he'll be deterred)
4 - Buck Shot (if he is still advancing after three shots this one will stop him)

Dude, that post is full of so much shit. I'll probably say more ignorance than stupidity though. Using a shotgun means employing LETHAL force because you believe your life is in danger, regardless of what you have loaded in it. Firing any firearm at someone is considered lethal force, regardless of the ammo you used. You are either within the law to use lethal force or you are not. If you shoot someone with a load that is less than lethal, the prosecutor will argue that you really didn't fear for your life, and thus the application of deadly force (using a shotgun, even loaded with a blank or rock salt) was NOT legal.

"Officer, I didn't want to hurt him too bad, I just wanted him to go away." "So, you shot him without expecting it to kill him?" "Yes officer." "Well, he just died from the wounds, and clearly you didn't intend to kill him. Sorry, but we have to arrest you now for manslaughter. You have the right to remain silent....."

If you are not comfortable enough to employ deadly force, and clearly you are not since your first 2 rounds are all about scaring the guy and making him run away, then you have NO business what-so-ever even considering having a firearm for self defense. And that is OK, it isn't for everyone. A firearm is lethal, nothing more, nothing less. You don't shoot to scare or shoot to wound, you shoot to stop the threat, knowing that shooting a person is lethal. Using anything else like rock salt, blanks or beanbag rounds is just asking for a lot of legal and civil lawsuit troubles.

(The scope of the trouble you'll be in for shooting someone with rock salt varies by state.)

MisterSkiMask · 10-02-2009, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scollins

First off, a shotgun must still be aimed. It is not "spray and pray." At typical home defense ranges (under 7 yards), a shotgun will pattern at a maximum of 8" down to 1" at point blank range. It sounds like plenty, but put a paper "appetizer" sized plate at 8 to 9 paces away and see how small it looks.

A "point of aim" (POA) swing of just 2 degrees will move your "point of impact" (POI) by 8 inches at 7 yards. I've seen plenty of guys miss at very close range when using a shotgun and just "spraying and praying".

Dude, that post is full of so much shit. I'll probably say more ignorance than stupidity though. Using a shotgun means employing LETHAL force because you believe your life is in danger, regardless of what you have loaded in it. Firing any firearm at someone is considered lethal force, regardless of the ammo you used. You are either within the law to use lethal force or you are not. If you shoot someone with a load that is less than lethal, the prosecutor will argue that you really didn't fear for your life, and thus the application of deadly force (using a shotgun, even loaded with a blank or rock salt) was NOT legal.

"Officer, I didn't want to hurt him too bad, I just wanted him to go away." "So, you shot him without expecting it to kill him?" "Yes officer." "Well, he just died from the wounds, and clearly you didn't intend to kill him. Sorry, but we have to arrest you now for manslaughter. You have the right to remain silent....."

If you are not comfortable enough to employ deadly force, and clearly you are not since your first 2 rounds are all about scaring the guy and making him run away, then you have NO business what-so-ever even considering having a firearm for self defense. And that is OK, it isn't for everyone. A firearm is lethal, nothing more, nothing less. You don't shoot to scare or shoot to wound, you shoot to stop the threat, knowing that shooting a person is lethal. Using anything else like rock salt, blanks or beanbag rounds is just asking for a lot of legal and civil lawsuit troubles.

(The scope of the trouble you'll be in for shooting someone with rock salt varies by state.)

You need to relax a little.

The first post of mine that you quoted I stand by, if you are standing in a hall way say 48" wide (give or take) and you are aiming a shot gun at a target that is 21" (give or take) wide the odds are on your side. That and your target is a living think human being that is going to be scared sh*tless when it hears 'clack clack' of that pump not to mention being at the business end of it.

Second post was certainly more of a joke. BTW my bed time wheel gun has no blanks in it....I don't even know where you could get blanks (other than starter pistol stuff) or salt rock ammo without loading it yourself.

scollins · 10-02-2009, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterSkiMask

You need to relax a little.

The first post of mine that you quoted I stand by, if you are standing in a hall way say 48" wide (give or take) and you are aiming a shot gun at a target that is 21" (give or take) wide the odds are on your side. That and your target is a living think human being that is going to be scared sh*tless when it hears 'clack clack' of that pump not to mention being at the business end of it.

GOTCHA! You are aiming the shotgun.

But seriously, I've missed enough hits by not being careful when aiming my shotgun. 3 shots at just 2 feet to hit a 1" wide target with a shotgun. I know, quite a bit smaller target than someone 21" wide 10 feet away.....

This one only took me one shot to open the door...

And "Relax a little" when it comes to self defense and bad advice? Um, no.

To quote from one of my instructors at a Carbine Operators course (he's in Law Enforcement):

"Chances are, the bad guy you are pointing your gun is NOT impressed! A lot of criminals and gang members have had guns pointed at them lots of time. Are you going to take the chance that the mere sight of your weapon is going to scare them?"

Personally, no. Anecdotes are always out there that the simple racking of a pump action shotgun is going to send everyone running scared shitless. I don't know of many (any?) actual incidents that prove that theory. If you are going to have a firearm in the house for self defense, be physically and mentally prepared to use it.

Quote:

Second post was certainly more of a joke. BTW my bed time wheel gun has no blanks in it....I don't even know where you could get blanks (other than starter pistol stuff) or salt rock ammo without loading it yourself.

Ok, we both know that, but new shooters and those interested in self defense don't know that.

MisterSkiMask · 10-02-2009, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scollins

GOTCHA! You are aiming the shotgun.

But seriously, I've missed enough hits by not being careful when aiming my shotgun. 3 shots at just 2 feet to hit a 1" wide target with a shotgun. I know, quite a bit smaller target than someone 21" wide 10 feet away.....

This one only took me one shot to open the door...

And "Relax a little" when it comes to self defense and bad advice? Um, no.

To quote from one of my instructors at a Carbine Operators course (he's in Law Enforcement):

"Chances are, the bad guy you are pointing your gun is NOT impressed! A lot of criminals and gang members have had guns pointed at them lots of time. Are you going to take the chance that the mere sight of your weapon is going to scare them?"

Personally, no. Anecdotes are always out there that the simple racking of a pump action shotgun is going to send everyone running scared shitless. I don't know of many (any?) actual incidents that prove that theory. If you are going to have a firearm in the house for self defense, be physically and mentally prepared to use it.

Ok, we both know that, but new shooters and those interested in self defense don't know that.

lauer87 · 10-02-2009, 09:48 AM

I have a 590A1 for Home Defense.

If money is no object, get a Benelli M4.

Maestro · 10-02-2009, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scollins

First off, a shotgun must still be aimed. It is not "spray and pray." At typical home defense ranges (under 7 yards), a shotgun will pattern at a maximum of 8" down to 1" at point blank range. It sounds like plenty, but put a paper "appetizer" sized plate at 8 to 9 paces away and see how small it looks.

A "point of aim" (POA) swing of just 2 degrees will move your "point of impact" (POI) by 8 inches at 7 yards. I've seen plenty of guys miss at very close range when using a shotgun and just "spraying and praying".

Dude, that post is full of so much shit. I'll probably say more ignorance than stupidity though. Using a shotgun means employing LETHAL force because you believe your life is in danger, regardless of what you have loaded in it. Firing any firearm at someone is considered lethal force, regardless of the ammo you used. You are either within the law to use lethal force or you are not. If you shoot someone with a load that is less than lethal, the prosecutor will argue that you really didn't fear for your life, and thus the application of deadly force (using a shotgun, even loaded with a blank or rock salt) was NOT legal.

"Officer, I didn't want to hurt him too bad, I just wanted him to go away." "So, you shot him without expecting it to kill him?" "Yes officer." "Well, he just died from the wounds, and clearly you didn't intend to kill him. Sorry, but we have to arrest you now for manslaughter. You have the right to remain silent....."

If you are not comfortable enough to employ deadly force, and clearly you are not since your first 2 rounds are all about scaring the guy and making him run away, then you have NO business what-so-ever even considering having a firearm for self defense. And that is OK, it isn't for everyone. A firearm is lethal, nothing more, nothing less. You don't shoot to scare or shoot to wound, you shoot to stop the threat, knowing that shooting a person is lethal. Using anything else like rock salt, blanks or beanbag rounds is just asking for a lot of legal and civil lawsuit troubles.

(The scope of the trouble you'll be in for shooting someone with rock salt varies by state.)

I kind of figure that MisterSkiMask was originally kind of joking, however, most people really do not want to shoot some but just scare them off if they can.

I use to shoot competitively and can hit exactly what I want and also felt I would shot to disable but not kill but due to our stupid laws as you kindly point out, you have no choose but to kill the person.

I hope anyone who has a gun for home protection know this, if you are going to shoot, shoot to kill and only kill, anything less will make you the criminal and you will spend lots of time and money justifying what you did especially when the person you shot denies he was trying to hurt you.

With that said, few states have revised their laws about self protection and you no long have to have your back to the wall or try to flee first. As long as you can show you felt threaten you can fire now. But some state still have the legal requirement of your back must be to the wall and you had no way to escape.

Peanuto · 10-02-2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lauer87

I have a 590A1 for Home Defense.

If money is no object, get a Benelli M4.

I love my benelli

MisterSkiMask · 10-02-2009, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peanuto

I love my benelli

I bought a Benelli SB2 over a year ago.... haven't even fired it yet

I tried to buy a Super Nova Tactical with Ghost Ring Sights at the same time, but they were backordered.

Peanuto · 10-02-2009, 03:42 PM

Gone waterfowl shooting with it about 12 times last year. Have the SB2 in shadowgrass. I love it. No complaints. Smooth firing, doesn't jam, operates under extreme cold (-6f). Just a great gun.

mpimping · 10-03-2009, 04:14 PM

Depends on ur build. If you aren't 200 pounds muscular then get a 20 gauge.

02themax · 10-03-2009, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMdblU

Don't you mean country?

NICE!

10-01-2009, 08:45 PM	#26
jpsum Major 264 Rep 1,088 Posts Drives: 2010 TSX Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New Haven area iTrader: (4)	OK... I'm going with Mossberg 500. But can't decide between these two models: Tactical (item #50420 $320) and the Tactical SPX (item #51523 $420). The SPX comes with a rifle sight. Is that rifle sight worth it? or should I save that $100 and get an aftermarket one?
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10-01-2009, 08:53 PM	#28
Peanuto Private First Class 63 Rep 122 Posts Drives: E92 335i Lemans Blue M-sport Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Maryland iTrader: (0)	What the hell do you need a rifle sight. Only needed for deer or some use for turkey. A main purpose of a shotgun for home protection is the convenience of a quick aim shot being more accurate thanks the the shot spread. It's not a video game. You won't have a minute to set up your shot and look through a scope. You will have a few seconds at best. Plus you need to calibrate a scope which is a pain in the ass for a home protection weapon.
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10-01-2009, 09:03 PM	#29
jpsum Major 264 Rep 1,088 Posts Drives: 2010 TSX Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New Haven area iTrader: (4)	got it. thx.
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10-01-2009, 09:05 PM	#30
ideliver Major 240 Rep 1,247 Posts Drives: E60 M5, E71 X6M, E46 M3 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: At the gas station iTrader: (0) Garage List 2006 BMW E46 M3 'vert [0.00] 2008 BMW M5 [0.00] 2011 BMW E92 [0.00] 2012 BMW X6M [0.00] 2003 E46 M3 [0.00]	save the $100 and buy a whole bunch of shells....get some friends and go throw some sporting clays...best fun you'll have __________________ Current: 2006 E46 M3 'vert 6-sp 2008 E60 M5, 2011 E92 328 6-sp, 2011 E70 N55, 2012 E71 X6M Last edited by ideliver; 10-01-2009 at 09:21 PM..
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10-01-2009, 11:44 PM	#33
ZJP Lieutenant Colonel 125 Rep 1,759 Posts Drives: F10 535xi / B6 S4 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: LI, NY iTrader: (7)
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10-02-2009, 09:48 AM	#38
lauer87 Lieutenant 8 Rep 586 Posts Drives: 335xi Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	I have a 590A1 for Home Defense. If money is no object, get a Benelli M4.
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10-02-2009, 03:42 PM	#42
Peanuto Private First Class 63 Rep 122 Posts Drives: E92 335i Lemans Blue M-sport Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Maryland iTrader: (0)	Gone waterfowl shooting with it about 12 times last year. Have the SB2 in shadowgrass. I love it. No complaints. Smooth firing, doesn't jam, operates under extreme cold (-6f). Just a great gun.
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10-03-2009, 04:14 PM	#43
mpimping Banned 821 Rep 336 Posts Drives: gti Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: ny,ny iTrader: (0)	Depends on ur build. If you aren't 200 pounds muscular then get a 20 gauge.
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